![]() | #2131 | ||||
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Bangalore
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The poor have been everybody's pawns far too long and always end up at the short end of the stick. That needs to change, no arguments there. No, I'm not sitting around talking about it expecting someone else to do something. I'm doing my relatively small bit too. Quote:
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Look around at the way urbanites treat each other, the horrors perpetrated on innocent people just because they belong to some piece of land or speak its language (but have nothing to do with the issue at hand). All humans are instinctive by nature, eduction and wisdom teaches them how to control their base instincts in a civilized society. It's not a rural vs urban thing. It's human vs human. Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 18th January 2017 at 12:30. | ||||
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![]() | #2132 | |||
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: PGT/PDY
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It is not just in presidential system that majority for rulers is a given, in parliamentary system with proportional representation too majority for ruling alliance is necessary. (eg: Germany, Israel, Turkey). It is only in our "first past the post" system, it is rarer. Quote:
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I am not questioning the legitimacy of the current or past govts. But I dont like the govts, current and past, claiming majority support for their policies. Last edited by deerhunter : 18th January 2017 at 12:37. | |||
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![]() | #2133 | |
BHPian Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Gurgaon
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Regarding your point on poor need to be accounted for - I agree 100%. And Govt did tried to do exactly that. Over the course of their 2.5 years rule - bank accounts for all poor, linking it to adhar, direct subsidy transfer, cheap insurance cover, accidental cover and pension cover for poor, besides campaign for constructing and using toilets and clean India. Govt not only formulated policies, they directed (and even pushed) banks to follow through. Crores of new bank accounts were opened. One can't see the remonetization policy in isolation. Without the prior policy drives, this would not have been even possible to think (probably that's why it was never done on this scale in India, despite Indra Gandhi Govt being advised to do so). You take 100 steps, people with oppose you on one or the other steps you have taken. You do nothing and you are doing exactly as expected in India. Last edited by Nav-i-gator : 18th January 2017 at 12:41. | |
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![]() | #2134 |
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: PGT/PDY
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| ![]() Another thing I noticed in this debate is that whenever someone opposes some policies of a govt, a few presume that the person opposing the policies is against the government and is a supporter of some other political ideology. It is not always true. Many here dont have any political leanings. So no need to list the achievements or negligence of any govt to prove the point. Someone opposing a particular policy or action is not necessarily anti-government |
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![]() | #2135 | |
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Bangalore
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That being said, (dis)agreeing with either or all of 'what' and 'why' and 'how' of something does not, should not and must not preclude the right to question and debate either of those aspects, for anything anywhere. The freedom to ask questions is the unnamed pillar of a democracy, it's what separates us from totalitarianism, and I find it concerning how many people would love to take that away just because someone disagrees with their version of something. | |
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![]() | #2136 | |||
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ahmedabad
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1. I think you missed 'ALL eligible voters' from my post. Can you please suggest whether majority popular vote was really a majority considering total eligible votes OR only considering the people who voted. 2. Whenever somebody argued for precedential democracy in India, left parties, feudalistic parties et al most vociferously shouted it down, because they can thrive only in fractured mandate, which gives them a leverage to disrupt Quote:
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But for the fact, I heard for the first time after 2014 that current government does not have a 'popular mandate'. I follow Indian politics and commentary since 1977 - a la emergency time. All earlier governments whether with fractured or clear majority did not have to face this comment. So much for the objectivity of left oriented media houses. ![]() Last edited by JLS : 18th January 2017 at 13:00. Reason: Part of quotes were not corrected inserted - corrected. | |||
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![]() | #2137 | |
BHPian Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Gurgaon
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Asking questions is necessary, but some questions (not necessarily from you) being asked here does not seek the answers, just trying to bash, troll and strike it down. Besides, asking questions when something seems bad to is justified, equally justified it is to expect honest appraisal of good things done, isn't it. P.S. I didn't voted for the incumbent Govt in 2014 polls, so I can fairly be assumed as a neutral observer. | |
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![]() | #2138 | |||
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Bangalore
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If everything being ideal was a criteria, nothing would ever get done, including demonetisation. Quote:
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![]() | #2139 | ||
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ahmedabad
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However I feel challenged when someone pushes down disagreement to my throat and curbs my right to voice agreement. On the other hand, on the argument that government has changed the goal posts mid way. At first I found this argument funny, and after further thoughts a dangerous one. Do we expect government to fight against corrupt crooks like a plain simple gentleman or like an astute chess player? Do we expect government to set some rigid procedures and stick with them for long time so that corrupt crooks can find ways to navigate against them? Do we expect government to fight against terrorist only after fully publishing the plan and troop movement etc, so that terrorists can set traps and foil the plan? Please think again - this is the folly of all so called liberal thinkers - expecting government to play by pre-set rules and allowing free hand to crooks and terrorists. Last edited by JLS : 18th January 2017 at 13:34. | ||
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![]() | #2140 | ||||
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: PGT/PDY
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But what I was trying to say was, there are several countries in the world where a popular mandate is a necessity to rule. Quote:
Also in every presidential system, there will be a law making body(eg: Congress in the US) which is elected by the people. So "left parties and feudalistic parties" will not gain or lose anything much if it was parliamentary or presidential. Link These are the excerpts from our constituent assembly on the debate of presidential vs parliamentary systems. Please go through it if you have the time. Quote:
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Has any of the media houses challeneged this govt regarding popular mandate? I have not heard any doing that. I may be wrong. Last edited by deerhunter : 18th January 2017 at 13:18. | ||||
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![]() | #2141 |
BHPian ![]() | ![]() Do we have the "referendum" in our constitution so that general public can weigh in on matters that have wide ranging impact? why is it that this is not being used, if there is such a provision? I also know it cannot probably be applied in this specific case of the demonetization drive but any other such policies that impact the true majority of the population, it should go for a referendum in my opinion. An ex could be the Jallikattu ban in Tamilnadu. |
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![]() | #2142 | ||
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Bangalore
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Demand your right to have an opinion without being judged or forced to give it up, but afford the same to everyone else in return. Everyone, not just those you agree with or aren't bothered by. Quote:
Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 18th January 2017 at 13:46. | ||
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![]() | #2143 | |||
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: PGT/PDY
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But in the case of demonetisation, it doesnt look so. It appears as if the govt initially thought this will wipe out all the black money. Once it became clear that it cannot, they started changing goals. Meanwhile the lowest sections of the society bore the brunt of its negative effects. Add to all this, there were much easier ways to clean up black money (but requiring immense political will), which the govt chose to ignore. Now the aim is to show that there were no alternatives to demonetisation and it is a great success. There is no transparency in anything they say about demonetisation. The people who implemented this were real amateurs. Look at PM's November 8 speech and look at the implementation. Half of what he said didnot occur according to plan. People supported this initially, thinking that the govt will catch evaders. But not even a single politician was raided by the tax authorities, not even that of opposition parties. PM Speech Quote:
Last edited by deerhunter : 18th January 2017 at 14:17. | |||
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![]() | #2144 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Bangalore
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Referendum is a very bad idea, and the option was wisely left out of our constitution. Decisions on "matters that have wide ranging impact" needs to be taken by subject matter and policy experts, after adequate analysis and consultations. Quote:
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/n.../1/845224.html Last edited by navin : 18th January 2017 at 15:59. | |
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![]() | #2145 | |
Senior - BHPian ![]() | ![]() Quote:
Are governments so powerless that they need to stoop to the levels of these crooks to fight them? Do we expect government to change policies and rules like a banana republic to tilt at windmills while honest citizens bear the brunt? Do we expect the government to take away the very things terrorists seek to take away from us - stability, security & freedom in the name of catching these terrorists? Please think again, this is the folly of all so called nationalist thinkers, forcing people to play by arbitrary rules while allowing a free hand to the government , allowing it to make a mockery of existing rules & institutions in the pursuit of so called (and shifting) goals for the betterment of the nation. Last edited by greenhorn : 18th January 2017 at 14:27. | |
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