[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by RGK

I am a salaried person and totally support this move. Let me fast forward

01-01-2017:

1. Only new 500/- and 2000/- rupee notes are available.
2. Cash withdrawal in ATM is restricted to 20000/- per week.
3. All high-value transactions (eg: gold, property, car) are tracked.
4. All digital transactions can or may be tracked.
5. IT - department will start scrutinizing the deposits made between 10-Nov-16 and 31-Dec-16.
6. Responsible citizens will use cheques or cards or bank transfer or other online modes.
7. Tax collections will increase.
8. Chances of reduction in Income tax slab will be on the cards.
9. Buying power of the public will increase.

What do we want to become? A North Korea? Is the yearning for "progress" so strong that we are willing to forgo all our liberties?

[sushantr5]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

What do we want to become? A North Korea? Is the yearning for "progress" so strong that we are willing to forgo all our liberties?

And human rights violations

[gsurya]

Here is another statistic that kills speculation that this move was mainly about fake currency notes.

Also, as far as I can tell, the new notes are nothing dramatically modern, like plastic or Euro/USD quality paper & security features. We need to see what currency security experts say.

This is from Govt's own analysis:

[binand]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

What do we want to become? A North Korea? Is the yearning for "progress" so strong that we are willing to forgo all our liberties?

Which liberty are we forgoing here?

[SDP]

Originally Posted by Queryanalyzer

I hope this doesnt some off as offensive, but have you tried waking into a store (and I am not taking about super markets) and buy a product with Rs.500? I tried to reason with the guys saying they can exchange it but no one wants to hear it.

I understand your point of view. You are being logical, but things are not working that way.

I don't think any vendor is doing anything wrong by NOT accepting a old 500Rs note. The notes are invalid (invalid and NOT worthless, mind you) from yesterday and should not be used for transactions at any place other than the listed places (railway/airline counter, fuel-pump, govt-hospitals etc). It was made amply clear in all communications. If you are in possession of a now invalid note, you should go to bank/post-office and get it exchanged. Why do you want the poor vendor to do your job?

Secondly, "inconvenience" is one thing and "the message was wrong" is an entirely different thing. If you want to talk about inconvenience caused to everybody, please feel free to do so. But let's not make incorrect statements and create unnecessary confusion.

[400notout]

Originally Posted by earthian

[*]Those who do not see the larger picture

Could you please elaborate on your view of the "larger picture". I'm asking as I don't see anything other than temporary disruption of routine.

[Nissan1180]

Originally Posted by earthian

On the contrary, Sir, i went to my bank at 10:30 am this morning, and there was no queue at all. There were 6 tellers dispensing money. there was an officer to oversee. I gave a self cheque and received my money in 100's; 50's 20's & 10's. By the time i finished, there were 4 people behind me, and maybe the same with all tellers. It would have taken probably 20 minutes to wait? Not too much to ask if we need to set things right. Right? I grant that it could have been different in other banks and areas.


Thank you for accepting this.


I had the opportunity to talk to two bankers. They assured me that there would be no shortage of money and replenishments were being closely coordinated. Any one had any trouble?


Well, let us wait and see.
I am of the view that the step taken by the government is a bold one and one that should lead to tangible benefits for the country and its citizens. There is no doubt that other measure need to be taken, but let us at least have the grace to accept that it is a step in the right direction.

I outlined the trouble faced by my mom and my grandmother's nurse a few posts ago. My neighbor here is from a rural location in West Bengal. He's getting married and his parents are having sleepless nights getting the money changed-local contractors don't accept cards.
As I said, the step is good. It may help get the illegal money out of the system, but it was incorrect to implement it in the way they did.
The greatest 'shock' was felt by the poor laborer or daily wager who kept his money in a tin box under his bed in a temporary hut and has to go from pillar to post since he doesn't carry his official ID in the city that he works.
Businessmen who had a penchant for forgery bought gold comfortably or have already invested it in property.
Instead, or even in addition to, if there was an effort to investigate the corrupt, this would made more sense. Things are even worse for people outside the country-a friend was offered Rs. 100 for 1 S$ today in Singapore-half the normal rate. He had Rs.10000 with him-and he's just a student. ICICI or SBI here are not helping people.
I don't want to make this a rant. All that's left to say is: In order to make people respect the law, you need to make the law respectable.
What I believe will happen very soon is that the demand for gold would rise. That would increase our imports and worsen the country's fiscal deficit.

[earthian]

Originally Posted by JLS

Sir, did you go to private or nationalized bank?
Which area in Ahmedabad and which bank if I may ask.

StanChart, Mithakhali

Originally Posted by 400notout

Could you please elaborate on your view of the "larger picture". I'm asking as I don't see anything other than temporary disruption of routine.

Mods: Apologise for the back to back replies. Please merge.
Let us first understand the present scenario:
If you want to buy land, chances are that you would have to shell out a sizeable portion in cash. At least i can vouch for the same in Gujarat, where land deals can go up to 80:20 with 80% being the cash component! I have yet to come across any land deal less than 50:50. So this means less stamp duty to be paid to the government, which means less money to the government, which means that they have to increase taxes in their budget, which means you (being the honest tax payer) have to pay more taxes.
The same example can be used in all purchases with cash, bill free, and hence (sales/excise/service )tax free. In other words, we ( assuming we are honest) pay more for the same goods/services than a dishonest man does.
The second effect is that the price of goods and services rises than their true market value ( since a dishonest man feels that he is anyway paying out of the 34% IT that he has saved.(read stolen) and hence is more free with his(?) money than we would be). If Income tax was paid on all the moneys earned (legally or questionably) then our IT tax slabs could fall for the same level of services that we enjoy or we could get better infrastructure, quality of life and so on for the same tax that we pay.
It is your money, and mine that was being stolen. Only we did not realise it.
A simplistic example but one which clearly shows that a honest man's money is being taken to support a dishonest man.

This is only one part of the picture. Counterfeits and their issues, National security, elections are all issues on their own merit.

[Queryanalyzer]

Originally Posted by SDP

Secondly, "inconvenience" is one thing and "the message was wrong" is an entirely different thing. If you want to talk about inconvenience caused to everybody, please feel free to do so. But let's not make incorrect statements and create unnecessary confusion.

I never said the "message was wrong". I talked about the part of the message that wasn't highlighted enough, and how the lack of it has led people to misconstrue the message. And when I say people I don't mean upper-middle class, I am referring to people that make couple of hundred rupees a day.
We can argue all night about the our PM said, the ground reality is what the people got out of it.

[FrozeninTime]

After all tamsha about black money the corrupt government servants will be protected after all through this loop hole.

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Govt...w/55356435.cms

As I said earlier the big fish are never caught nor prosecuted. Everything will be normal in few months and people will forget until the next scam.
The cycle repeats itself like stock market.

[SDP]

Originally Posted by Queryanalyzer

I never said the "message was wrong". ...

Let me refresh your memory.

Here's what you said -

Originally Posted by Queryanalyzer

...
I said this yesterday and I will say it again.. Rs.500 and Rs.1000 is worthless is that message that everyone got. The fact that these notes can be exchanged, albeit with some hassle, is not being passed along.
....

I talked about the part of the message that wasn't highlighted enough, and how the lack of it has led people to misconstrue the message. And when I say people I don't mean upper-middle class, I am referring to people that make couple of hundred rupees a day.

Again, its people like you who got it wrong (or may be didn't bother to understand) and are trying to transact with notes which are no longer valid and trying to blame the vendors for not accepting them.

We can argue all night about the our PM said, the ground reality is what the people got out of it.

How about some humility to accept a mistake and move on, rather than giving new twists to the argument and going on and on?

[lHarpreetl]

Originally Posted by FrozeninTime

After all tamsha about black money the corrupt government servants will be protected after all through this loop hole.

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Govt...w/55356435.cms

As I said earlier the big fish are never caught nor prosecuted. Everything will be normal in few months and people will forget until the next scam.
The cycle repeats itself like stock market.

This is so disheartening to know. Hopefully Modi has some plans for such officials too as he has for everything else. This loophole is like a chink in the armour which will be exploited by top government officials.

[FrozeninTime]

Originally Posted by lHarpreetl

This is so disheartening to know. Hopefully Modi has some plans for such officials too as he has for everything else. This loophole is like a chink in the armour which will be exploited by top government officials.

This is being enacted by Central Government not by some MPs

[narayans80]

Originally Posted by Nissan1180

ICICI or SBI here are not helping people.

A friend from SG did send a note that was hung outside SBI Singapore that they would not exchange 500 and 1000 Rs notes. Country I live, doesn't even have one Indian bank they just closed the only representative branch a month back.

Am not sure how long it will take airport exchange agencies to get the new currencies, will wait and watch. Would need new currencies atleast on landing with kids in tow.

My next trip is atleast 7 months away. Its unclear if the bank or RBI would even exchange 3-4 500s as late as June or August next year. If not, I have to follow what prasadee suggested a few pages back (donate).

[carwatcher]

In the process... also getting captured multiple times by CCTV cameras.

Originally Posted by civic-sense

What do we want to become? A North Korea? Is the yearning for "progress" so strong that we are willing to forgo all our liberties?