[asingh1977]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Either way the currency would've been invalid after a given date, and deposits would be tightly controlled under the notified measures. Giving out the 'perception' of immediate illegality wasn't really necessary to achieve the end goal, and yes, there's a sizable chunk of our population that takes announcements at face value, and the widespread panic of the last few days is testimony to that.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

I would have allowed the use of these notes for everything but for a list that would include all the known type of receivers on whom black money can be offloaded, the Rs 2.5 lakh rule would apply, and also the requirement to collect PAN of all buyers that gave them the old notes.

So if 500 and 1000 would have been allowed for everything except: cars, gold, diamonds, silver, property, RE, shares. If used airtight papers, documentation, and KYC would be needed. Are these norms all ready not in place when purchasing from the list. How would have things been different. Even the common man tries graft when purchasing these. Who does not, the really poor. Who actually has suffered..? Mostly the utterly poor.

Most of the people moaning in the long ATM lines have been party to some sort of corruption in India, due to it being so "normal". Now, I guess it is time to pay up. What about us TDS'ers..? We suffer for a better future, but possess greater tools to face this calamity.

It would really have been impossible to trap individuals en masse. This was the only way, that is what I feel. I think, Dec. 30th more is going to come out. Also the dial up/down of permitted values and usage dates, seems pre-planned. BJP seems cool about things. They know what is happening.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by asingh1977

Are these norms all ready not in place when purchasing from the list.....

You've pretty much answered your own question. We aren't where we are for lack of laws, but due to lax governance and over-complicated tax codes.

What we need is organized and methodical reform, not cavalier clean-up. Demonetisation by itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it can't be the first step without laying groundwork for reform, and with each passing day, it's apparent that even the demonetisation itself wasn't planned down to the operational details.

We have no choice but to wait and watch where this leads now. Given this govt has made a painful start, I hope they have the plan and opportunity to go the whole hog on comprehensive reforms and not drop this halfway. That would be the ultimate travesty.

[carwatcher]

I would take this figure with that much credibility with which we take the figures of crimes reported and solved by each police station. We all know how difficult is to file an FIR and I don't think in more than 50% of cases FIR is still filed.

Similarly during raids negotiations are done and settled mostly in cash, so 6% is hugely under reported figure IMHO.

Originally Posted by ecenandu

Yes, based on income tax raid done over years.

Source: Black money, white paper 2012, Ministry of Finance

The Govt has from Day one has given the estimate for working of ATM is three to four weeks.

PM has asked for inconvenience of Fifty days from day one.

Every step is taken as per new updates and the strategy is constantly reviewed in real-time on a war footing.

Govt has not denied that people are inconvenienced and even various surveys have reported so.

Govt, various economists, experts, etc have predicted slowdown for next two-quarters but they have also said that the benefits of the same to the country could never be quantified, they would be huge.

Till Now only Two and a half weeks i.e. 33% of the total time has passed so let's wait and watch rather than spreading negativity.

Some are even complaining that the loss to the economy due to relief in Toll-tax is huge. IMHO if the Smart ones flash their Old 500/1000 or New 2000 notes (I am sure majority would do seeing the behaviour in ATMs) to the Toll collecting guy and ask for change and holding up traffic in the process (already happening in Yamuna Expressway) the loss to the economy by way of burning fuel, time, productivity and pollution would easily be much much more.

[diyguy]

Have you folks seen this link?
http://pmindia.gov.in-cash.co

Don't know the authenticity of this but seems weird

[perty]

Originally Posted by diyguy

Have you folks seen this link?
http://pmindia.gov.in-cash.co

Don't know the authenticity of this but seems weird

Almost certainly a fraud. I make it a point to follow national and regional news channels every day and all they have been showing is about the poor/middle class people enduring in the hope of seeing better days. If free cash was on offer, they would have been howling about it for a long time now (according to the website, this was announced on Nov 20th). Stay away. Better not to click or enter data on such websites

[ecenandu]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

I would take this figure with that much credibility with which we take the figures of crimes reported and solved by each police station. We all know how difficult is to file an FIR and I don't think in more than 50% of cases FIR is still filed.

Similarly during raids negotiations are done and settled mostly in cash, so 6% is hugely under reported figure IMHO.

Buddy the 6% figure is a fact, based on the income tax raids done over the years. So, the amount of black economy, that can be caught by demonetization is comparatively less.

By Dec 31st, we can atleast calculate the size of the black economy based on the amount of rupees which didn't come back to the banks. Not that this method will be accurate, but atleast it is scientific.

Till Now only Two and a half weeks i.e. 33% of the total time has passed so let's wait and watch rather than spreading negativity.

Buddy, I understand and appreciate your optimism. But I don't share the same emotion. Why should one shy away from criticism, if it is badly executed.

Every step is taken as per new updates and the strategy is constantly reviewed in real-time on a war footing.

With almost a rule change every day, I don't think it will instill confidence among the public, rather it will create more panic.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

I would take this figure with that much credibility with which we take the figures of crimes reported and solved by each police station. We all know how difficult is to file an FIR and I don't think in more than 50% of cases FIR is still filed.
...
Some are even complaining that the loss to the economy due to relief in Toll-tax is huge. IMHO if the Smart ones flash their Old 500/1000 or New 2000 notes (I am sure majority would do seeing the behaviour in ATMs) to the Toll collecting guy and ask for change and holding up traffic in the process (already happening in Yamuna Expressway) the loss to the economy by way of burning fuel, time, productivity and pollution would easily be much much more.

Let me give you a real life example and I can give you more. This Noida authority engineer is worth more than 10000 crores and only 10 crores of it was in cash which makes it .001% of the ill acquired wealth. There are many more example and I am in agreement with the objective but shall we have gone for people like him or the one's suffering now?

http://english.pradesh18.com/news/bi...be-648423.html

[Gannu_1]

Toll fees on NHs waived off until December 2nd midnight!

Source

So from Nov. 11th, it got extended to 14th, then 18th, then 24th and now until 2nd Dec.

Drive, drive, drive!

[carwatcher]

Govt was already going after people like him but now it is going in phased manner.

If one wants to look that way, then everyone seems to be suffering.

The case you have quoted is a very unique one as the guy had so deep contacts inside the Govt that many people used to think that he is some bureaucrat. He is caught only because he might have lost the political patronage he was enjoying. Even his name Yadav Singh might have helped him as it can confuse anyone as to which caste or political party he belongs. Also if you believe that the amount of cash reported is the true figure reported by CBI then I must confidently say that the image of CBI is unnecessarily tarnished and they are the honest and incorruptible chaps unnecessarily used as punching bag by politicians and courts.

I have heard confirmed stories as to how a person accused of corruption when put in jail (for a short period) during the trial is made to pay in hard cash to jail authorities, court staff and all other involved as everyone shows absolutely no pity and believe he has to be properly milked.

What's your opinion on RBI figures showing old currency notes remaining out of circulation since very long time, even after discontinuing them, for eg the notes prior to 2005 were discontinued but even then a huge number of them still didn't come back.

I am taking a break from posting on this thread. So lets watch the events unfolding day by day and seriously pray that the people's miseries, if still present to a large extent as claimed by many, doesn't get worse.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Let me give you a real life example and I can give you more. This Noida authority engineer is worth more than 10000 crores and only 10 crores of it was in cash which makes it .001% of the ill acquired wealth. There are many more example and I am in agreement with the objective but shall we have gone for people like him or the one's suffering now?

http://english.pradesh18.com/news/bi...be-648423.html

If one looks at another side effect of the shake-up the psyche of small businessmen would also get changed as they would realise that if they don't adapt, they would be left behind. For eg, when Volvo buses came, even the transporters who didn't had Volvo buses painted their normal buses in the way Volvo buses did and also put on the fake logo. Jan Dhan account does exactly that, if someone wants to upgrade after his business improves, he can always do that.

Another shake-up side effect is the corrupt are kind of confused. The monetary benefits of redistribution of ill-gotten wealth by way of money-laundering and conversion by paying commission also remains unquantified and while one may disagree but the amount at least has entered the banking system and would be put to use. So isn't the same black money is helping the economy during crunch times as claimed by many experts incl CM of U.P. who also belongs to selected and not elected category.

Latest news floating is that the Govt would put Tax rate of 60% on unexplained money in bank, isn't that an undeclared Amnesty scheme with higher rate. IMHO it would further increase some deposits as there would be many who would like to buy the peace of mind rather than lose their sleep over how to convert their black money lying in cash.

As I had mentioned earlier and I am mentioning again that the biggest benefit of this scheme would be that there will be massive improvement in the image of Indian Economy in the eyes of the foreign investors all around the world just the same way in which the image of ordinary Indians is improved worldwide since last few years which many would agree to.

[LonelyPlanet]

My sister stays in US and has about 1.5L worth of demonetised currency denominations.
She wont be able to travel to India before 31st for getting this exchange done.
Are there any options for NRIs - I couldn't find any information in this regards

[nowwhat?]

Originally Posted by LonelyPlanet

My sister stays in US and has about 1.5L worth of demonetised currency denominations.
She wont be able to travel to India before 31st for getting this exchange done.
Are there any options for NRIs - I couldn't find any information in this regards

Maximum ₹25,000 can be taken abroad according to RBI (DYK: You can carry up to Rs.25,000 abroad]). Anyone ending up with ₹1.5 lakh in rupees in the US seems a bit too much.

[Puneet.S]

Originally Posted by nowwhat?

Maximum ₹25,000 can be taken abroad according to RBI (DYK: You can carry up to Rs.25,000 abroad]). Anyone ending up with ₹1.5 lakh in rupees in the US seems a bit too much.

Multiple visits by many family members over a period of time?

[asingh1977]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

You've pretty much answered your own question. We aren't where we are for lack of laws, but due to lax governance and over-complicated tax codes.

What we need is organized and methodical reform, not cavalier clean-up. Demonetisation by itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it can't be the first step without laying groundwork for reform, and with each passing day, it's apparent that even the demonetisation itself wasn't planned down to the operational details.

We have no choice but to wait and watch where this leads now. Given this govt has made a painful start, I hope they have the plan and opportunity to go the whole hog on comprehensive reforms and not drop this halfway. That would be the ultimate travesty.

It is a roundabout question.

Why are what we are..? Due to us being dishonest to the core or our government (read: Now, British Raj, Zamindars); were so bad to us a mere 70 years ago. Choose what you deem wish from the buffet of atrocities, which hold back India from, getting a clean chit. How can an over complicated tax code prevent someone from filling tax (or declaring lower income), or taking bribes? The Cure Beats the Prevention, should that be the logic?

But ya, a mechanical implementation cannot change societies culture.

I feel that the demonetization has been planned. I really do not see the BJP panicking. December 30th, maybe they will announce something around real estate.

Yes, it is wait and watch, and post!

[Puneet.S]

Originally Posted by asingh1977

It is a roundabout question.

Why are what we are..? Due to us being dishonest to the core or our government (read: Now, British Raj, Zamindars); were so bad to us a mere 70 years ago. Choose what you deem wish from the buffet of atrocities, which hold back India from, getting a clean chit. How can an over complicated tax code prevent someone from filling tax (or declaring lower income), or taking bribes? The Cure Beats the Prevention, should that be the logic?

But ya, a mechanical implementation cannot change societies culture.

I feel that the demonetization has been planned. I really do not see the BJP panicking. December 30th, maybe they will announce something around real estate.

Yes, it is wait and watch, and post!

That begs for a question - Why?

[hillsnrains]

Originally Posted by LonelyPlanet

My sister stays in US and has about 1.5L worth of demonetised currency denominations.
She wont be able to travel to India before 31st for getting this exchange done.
Are there any options for NRIs - I couldn't find any information in this regards

Even after December 30th, one can go and deposit old currency in their accounts @ selected RBI counters.