[srishiva]

There are lots of services (like doctors) who accept more of cash. Most of it will remain black. There are lots of other jobs/services that do the same.
Now, will they increase their prices if they have to show everything as white ? They might think they have a right to do so since they would like to transfer the burden to the end user.

My feeling is that this might make lot of services dearer to everyone. Unless we have a system that can automatically track the spending against income, it will still be very difficult to curb this menace. People have the mentality that its unfair to pay tax on everything !

I also dont think comparing with other big economies is fair since the willingness of people to come up with schemes to dodge any system is super high. We do need our own solutions to our problems however non-traditional they may seem.

[filmaka]

Can the government have the banks add this feature to their apps, Using which we can verify a cheque given. The app can simply verify the signature and the amount and give the option to lock the amount if the cheque issuer Gives the OTP to receiver. Amount can be locked till the cheque is deposited. This will increase the acceptability of cheques from strangers.

Also all transactions above Rs 2000 should be mandatory to be done through Cheque, Draft, Swipe or Transfer only.

Government should make it mandatory for Banks to issue swap machines to all current account holders. The swap machines should have been provided first and then Demonetization and Digital India campaigns should have been launched.

If the Jan Dhan accounts were possible, Why were the swap machines not made mandatory Two years ago. These should be mandatory for all businesses and professionals and incentives given to use swap machines and bank transfers.

Why can't Teachers, Doctors, Boutiques and Even Service providers like Plumbers, AC Service Representatives Etc Carry wireless POS machines or simply use apps to swap or scan cards. They can but the users should have been given time and given these mediums well in time. There is no excuse why this was not announced well in time.

[jetsetgo08]

One month since the demonetization, and yet there are many shortfalls and inefficacies in this whole process. It is really a bitter pill for a better future. One should hail the public for their spirit to suffer in the present for a fruitful future.

But, I honestly feel sorrow for the acute hypocrisy being displayed by the Indian media.

The ones who volleyed for the initiative initially are now grossly scorning the same, not for the loopholes in the implementation but the demonetization itself. Such negative publicity IMHO can act as a catalyst for any public outrage and agitation.

Whether it is the strong influence or for a better TRP, resorting to "adding insult to (public-)injury" is highly unwanted at this juncture .

I just hope the "junta" sustains the maturity to wade through this predicament and not surrender to any of the unscrupulous gambits of the Indian media.

Disclaimer: I do not favour the Indian politics or any of the politicians. I am just a well-wisher for a better India.

[Mortis]

Prices are definitely up. I went to Crawford market today and bought several things. Most prices were up by 30% or more and shops gave a bill for everything. Most people are selling @ MRP now.

[freedom]

I have made sure to ask for a cashless payment at shops.
For a bill of 50-100, I am okay to pay by cash. For anything over it, I walk out if the shop without buying anything if they don't do cashless transactions.
I think other people should start doing this.
Shops that take only cash should be made to feel the pain.
Eventually even small payments should happen cashless. But I am okay if all registered and legal shops start accepting at least 2 modes of cashless payments.

[nakul0888]

Guys, I just read this article that takes a different and far more sinister view on the note ban.

http://schiffgold.com/commentaries/c...pha-predicted/

What do you think? Is India headed for a crash?

[poloman]

Originally Posted by freedom

For a bill of 50-100, I am okay to pay by cash. For anything over it, I walk out if the shop without buying anything if they don't do cashless transactions.
I think other people should start doing this.

Hope every one in the country follows this. Went to Bata showroom and POS machine was not working, paid by PayTM and got 1% cashback. Definitely a better deal than card. Also visited a tailor to stitch few pants. Bill came to 1100 and he wanted money in advance. PayTM accepted sticker was posted there, but he wanted cash saying PayTM limit is reached or some similar excuse. Told him that he is not going to get any cash, then immediately fell in line and accepted PayTM. So there is only one excuse for this hungama about cash shortage atleast in big cities. They simply don't want to report their income. It is really unfortunate that media and some so called experts are crying hoarse and there by favoring these kind of money hoarders. Surely some distress exists in rural areas, but this is opportunity for them also to move up at least by opening a bank account if not mobile wallet.
Another argument was people hardly store black money in cash. But IT raids in last few days are startling. 4000 crores recovered in currency and gold. Wad of old and new notes are tumbling out of cupboards, secret chambers mattresses etc. This is only a tip of the iceberg. These experts and media are living in lala land it seems.

[sammyboy]

Everyday there is some news about crores being nabbed from someone or the other and mostly in new currency. Here we are, standing in line for hours, supporting the entire move and not letting our family and friends lose hope, Cheering every time we get 2k from an ATM . Stay strong, I tell myself. Corruption is so deeply engrained in our system that one almost feels like a fool, almost. Rant over .

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by sammyboy

Everyday there is some news about crores being nabbed from someone or the other and mostly in new currency. Here we are, standing in line for hours, supporting the entire move and not letting our family and friends lose hope, Cheering every time we get 2k from an ATM . Stay strong, I tell myself. Corruption is so deeply engrained in our system that one almost feels like a fool, almost. Rant over .

Exactly what i also feel on reading such news. NO way it is possible for them to get new notes without the help of Bank managers or someone in the banking system. Shame on such people who do these favors for money in return.

Not a few lakhs, but crores of rupees in new 2000 notes being held by these hoarder.Any bank employee involved in this must be fired !

Our country never ceases to amaze me!

[V.Narayan]

I am all for reduction of black money and wealth and all for the white economy. If demonetization is a step in that direction it has my support. PM Modi has apparently lost 300,000 followers on his twitter account and that may be an indication. The UP elections will be another. De-monetization has been attempted before in Brazil (1994) and Germany (1920s) both as a consequence of rampant hyperinflation - in both instances with limited success. Never, to best of my knowledge, has demonetization been attempted in a growing healthy economy which till 7th November seemed to be on a winning wicket. While the intentions are honorable the medicine given seems more aimed at UP elections and a populist tone.

As per the reports the IT department has put out for year ended March 2013 (the latest so far I think) only 5430 individuals paid over Rs 1 crore of tax and only 3 paid over Rs 100 crores. Wonder what one makes of the Forbes list of 100 richest Indians the poorest of whom has a $1.25 billion networth. Surely if your networth is $1.25 bn your income is likely to be north of Rs 350 crores reflecting a theoretical tax of Rs 100 crores. Till the Govt cleans up the IT Dept itself and its way of working this exercise to mop up black wealth will in my view remain an exercise.

Undeclared currency notes are the consequence of black wealth generation and not the cause. Till funding for political parties, extortion by Govt departments and officials and more realistic tax rates don't get sorted black wealth generation 'technology' will stay ahead of Govt attempts like demonetization. In the days of old the kings used to levy tax (typically on produce from the land) of 1/6th or 1/7th of the produce. They were closer to their janta and knew that rates higher than one part in six usually led to a silent revolt against tax collection. Countries like Hungary, Ireland, Hong Kong have effective highest tax slabs in the high teens. I believe Indian tax compliance will improve if our tax rates were 20% instead of 31%. Just my view.

[earthian]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

.... tax compliance will improve if our tax rates were 20% instead of 31%.

Yes, it would. But the first step would be to widen the tax paying base. In Gujarat, the Government announced that they would be increasing the jantri ( Price of land used for taxation purposes) rates to as close to market value. Once done, they may consider lowering the stamp duty payable on buying land. During 2004-2008 when land prices were shooting up, nearly on a day to day basis; the same plot of land may have exchanged ownership multiple times, without being registered.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by nowwhat?

Quite a self congratulatory clap, but I hope you realize that December 31st is a 5th Saturday and normally open.

I know a bunch of these "smart" individuals myself and sadly they are some of my own relatives. They have been trying very hard to get me to launder their money and I have been resisting as hard as I can so far.

I think the deadline is 30 December, so we may not need the 31st.

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

IMHO this is just a validation of the fact that people with Black money is incurring substantial cost in conversion of black money to white. For eg - if you had 100 Rs of black money, you are left with anything from 50-80 rs in case you go for conversion and there is also the risk that ED will come after you once they bust one of these big rackets.

I don't think anybody is saying that this will wipe out Black money overnight. What will happen though - People will realize that there is a potential risk in tax evasion and substantial number of lawyers/doctors/business men/salaries folks with other income/family income etc. will realize the risk that they are incurring and will try to curtail the tax evasion that they have been doing all this while.

I am all for draconian measures to limit the amount of Black Money left. More important the mood has changed.

I came across a post which says that there may even be some 'black liquidity' in the economy, ie the actual amount in circulation may be more than what has been reported. I pray to the Almighty that this is not true, since the repercussions are huge.

[poloman]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I came across a post which says that there may even be some 'black liquidity' in the economy, ie the actual amount in circulation may be more than what has been reported. I pray to the Almighty that this is not true, since the repercussions are huge.

Sir, you mean to say RBI printed more notes than that in their records? Were the notes being printed out side the system but using RBI infrastructure? This will be a huge finding and RBI will have lot to answer for. Going by the incidents which happened in previous regime this may not come as a surprise and this will explain the huge inflationary tendencies during that time. Also we thought banks were relatively clean. But after the ongoing raids, one cannot be faulted if they think banks are the biggest actors in this saga of organised corruption.

[diyguy]

The idea of electronic trail seems ridiculous now to me. If the government is not able to figure out how people are ending up with 10s of crores in new currency when there is a limit of 24k per week per account, then what will they do in the future?

[sgiitk]

Two interesting pieces of information.

As per today's Jagaran the new currency notes found at T&T Lawyers in Delhi did not bear any serial nos. So were they straight from the printing press?

Yesterday, my wife was talking to her brother in Gwalior. Things have normalized. Banks are giving out 24k per week and the queues at ATMs are down to two or three. So it seems that the demonetization woes are over in Gwalior. His son in Delhi is facing problems alright.