[pramodkumar]

Originally Posted by benbsb29

My grandmother who is in her 90s and bedridden would be another perfect example. I myself have given her Rs 500 notes multiple times when i visited her after i started working. I know for sure that she wouldn't have bothered depositing these in a bank owing to the effort involved, and these would remain in her kitty for her personal expenses when required. A person like her now in possession of old notes is apparently a law-breaker.

It's heart wrenching to see an old an helpless soul pass away and leave a 50-60k stash under their bed, its a usual practice atleast in Kerala, Imagine cops coming to the house to collect that as evidence or worst, arresting the house owner.

You know what the worst part is? If the senior citizen is well aware of the demonetization their hidden stash (usually a couple of thousands to may be tens of it) is now exposed to children and grand children, this puts them in additional stress, now many would argue, can't they suffer this bit for a greater good? What greater good? Greater good, my foot!


Pramod

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

It's heart wrenching to see an old an helpless soul pass away and leave a 50-60k stash under their bed, its a usual practice atleast in Kerala, Imagine cops coming to the house to collect that as evidence or worst, arresting the house owner.

You know what the worst part is? If the senior citizen is well aware of the demonetization their hidden stash (usually a couple of thousands to may be tens of it) is now exposed to children and grand children, this puts them in additional stress, now many would argue, can't they suffer this bit for a greater good? What greater good? Greater good, my foot!

Why was the provision of deposits of up to 2L into a ladies account as Stree Dhan made exempt. If someone is unable to persuade the elders to deposit the stash then they have to take the blame.

If this was as precious to the elders as to not part with it, then it will be in the fitness of things for the stash to be cremated / buried / whatever with them.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

If this was as precious to the elders as to not part with it, then it will be in the fitness of things for the stash to be cremated / buried / whatever with them.

Have a heart. Even if it is hypothetical which it is not. Lot of women have to secretly save money so their drunkard men don't get hold of it. These women risk getting beaten and tortured by men who are in perpetual need to fund their vices.

I hope someone locks this thread, it's such a strong polarising political subject.

[deerhunter]

Originally Posted by androdev

Have a heart. Even if it is hypothetical which it is not. Lot of women have to secretly save money.

An interesting article about the subject: India's 'desperate housewives' scramble to change secret savings

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by androdev

Have a heart. Even if it is hypothetical which it is not. Lot of women have to secretly save money so their drunkard men don't get hold of it. These women risk getting beaten and tortured by men who are in perpetual need to fund their vices.

I hope someone locks this thread, it's such a strong polarising political subject.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious, some of the posts on this thread are so insensitive and expose the ignorance and contempt of the "sophisticated" ones posting them.

Our economics professor was explaining the dangers of binary thinking, basically about not having the mindset to question official bombast. The supporters have been posting the same evidence
1. No queues at ATMs - right, no one wants the 2k notes and most ATMs are shut, no one in a queue.
2. I was able to withdraw money from my multiple accounts- people without bank accounts would be so thrilled, by the way, if you support the move, why did you withdraw money in the first place?
3. Things are back to normal, worst of all, writing this from municipal or corporation limits, places least affected by the move.

I was at a major industrial area last week, shopped with cash and got good discounts. The Paytm and card accepted stickers looked so out of place. Things are back to normal, not in the way you imagined it.

[pramodkumar]

Originally Posted by androdev

Have a heart..

This is precisely what is missing here. No one here, who supports this circus would understand what a common man goes through. There is a drunkard in our neighborhood, whose wife works as a domestic help in 10 houses, she makes 4500 each(that what we pay) but she has told me not to reveal her income to her husband who thinks she makes 1k and beats the pulp out of her to get that for his evening get-togethers. His kids are really bright so the poor mother saves whatever she earns, last time he sold the kids school textbooks for his drink. So now having this money in sthree dhan accounts would be great, or let me think, why doesn't she report him to the cops and face the social stigma? after all he is a dysfunctional father.

Things are better in Kerala, when I hear stories of drunk husbands beating their wifes for money in other states my blood really boils, but is there a choice? is the government even considering this? Some might say prohibition is the solution, but hooch tragedies will be on the rise once prohibition happens. we are already off topic, lets hope people don't say heartless things to win the debate.

Pramod

[greenhorn]

While this article is based on the jallikattu debate, a lot of the points hold valid for this thread as well!
https://www.buzzfeed.com/krishashok/...nuanced-debate

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

This is precisely what is missing here. No one here, who supports this circus would understand what a common man goes through.

No, that is not true. The truth is you are unable to appreciate that there isn't a single executive action that won't hurt someone.

No matter what action is taken to curb black money, it is going to hurt some poor innocent person. Not taking any action will hurt lot more people eventually as the economy takes the beating.

Even the most wise/benevolent executive action is taken with the full understanding that it will have some collateral damage.

[deerhunter]

Originally Posted by Samurai

there isn't a single executive action that won't hurt someone.

No matter what action is taken to curb black money, it is going to hurt some poor innocent person.

This is only applicable to actions which are taken without much thought.

How will giving a free hand to tax authorities and enforcement directorate affect poor innocent people? Such an action would have definitely caused more harm to evaders than the poor.

Black money will inevitably leave a trail. Our tax authorities are capable of finding that trail. Why not use that? Atleast the big sharks would've been caught. Now they are just catching smaller stashes and publicising it. It is more like a PR exercise.

[pramodkumar]

Originally Posted by Samurai

No, that is not true. The truth is you are unable to appreciate that there isn't a single executive action that won't hurt someone.

No matter what action is taken to curb black money, it is going to hurt some poor innocent person. Not taking any action will hurt lot more people eventually as the economy takes the beating.

Even the most wise/benevolent executive action is taken with the full understanding that it will have some collateral damage.

question to you, do you have a gusstimate of how much black money has been un earthed by now?

Do you know how much old currency has successfully made into the system after this move?

What is the net outcome of this exercise? and what was expected?

how is the collateral damage justified when the whole exercise has no clear mandate or outcome? first it was black money, then it became corruption, then it was terrorism and finally it became a brave move towards cashless economy.

I am confused, lets not just say " yeah there was some major communication lapses" or " we were iterating as we moved forward, since no one knew what to expect"

pramod

[ankan.m.blr]

From Fb :

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by deerhunter

This is only applicable to actions which are taken without much thought.

Sorry dude... Have you ever taken tough executive decisions that affect lives of lot of people? If you did, then you know that it is true every time.

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

Do you know how much old currency has successfully made into the system after this move?

What is the net outcome of this exercise? and what was expected?

Are you again talking about efficiency? I am surprised how all of a sudden people are expecting massive government operations to be highly efficient.

[pramodkumar]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Are you again talking about efficiency? I am surprised how all of a sudden people are expecting massive government operations to be highly efficient.

I am not even trying to get into efficiency I am just trying to understand outcomes of this massive exercise, there should be some reporting after 21 days of the end of this exercise. So is it too much for asking for some figures?

Lets also put this hypothetical situation, where in the RBI claims 5-10% of the old currency deposited is counterfeit and the RBI has no liability to pay that off and declares that as a positive outcome, do we have anyone inside/outside the system to even question that? we will have to believe whatever they say.


Pramod

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

I am not even trying to get into efficiency I am just trying to understand outcomes of this massive exercise, there should be some reporting after 21 days of the end of this exercise. So is it too much for asking for some figures?

As I have already mentioned in here, only time will tell. Yes, it is too early to judge now. That is my opinion.

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Sorry dude... Have you ever taken tough executive decisions that affect lives of lot of people? If you did, then you know that it is true every time.

Are you again talking about efficiency? I am surprised how all of a sudden people are expecting massive government operations to be highly efficient.

Samurai - With all due respect, and without trying to get into political bashing, since I hate all politicians in equal measure, this was not the way to go about tackling black money.

The fact is that India is primarily a cash economy and while there is a very large percentage of people who have unaccounted money, the first steps should have been to tackle the people with the most amounts of black money and to close all avenues of tax evasion. This was not done.

The biggest generators and hoarders of black money are the politicians, big businesses and bureaucrats. Do you see any of them running scared after demonetization? Do you see Mayawati, Sharad Pawar, Karunanidhi, Badal, etc running around trying to save their black money? For them its BAU.

Secondly, do you feel that the future generation of black money and avenues of evasion have been addressed? I dont think they have been. I see that political parties are still able to receive and deposit black money in their accounts without any fear of the IT dept. I see that our rich so called farmers are still able to launder black money as pure white agricultural income without any problem.

So please excuse me for thinking that our government has destroyed the credibility of the Indian rupee, inconvenienced crores of people, adversely impacted business and slammed the brakes on the economy, while still allowing the rampant evasion of taxes and allowing our biggest tax defaulters a free run.