[sachinpk]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Taxes are socialism. More taxes, more socialism. Its amusing to see the right bat for more taxes.

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

(collecting and using taxes judiciously being part of the job description) is socialism now?

That was my own definition for the Indian form "socialism" . That is, people at large expecting a government to take care of their every need, ensuring that they have 1st World level facilities, while not asking any thing in return (through taxes or any other income generation means). Don't know if you have noticed this. In India "I am poor" is also taken as an excuse to flout laws, do illegal things etc.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by ecenandu

I have this theory on socialism. It will work on countries with less population and there is a critical mass, people who are contributing vs the beneficiaries. Once the balance is lost, it will start putting strain on the system. It is not scalable is what I believe, it ought to become rather inefficient for larger populations. At the end of the day, some one has to bear the cost, right. And it is a general human tendency to give zero damn, if it provided free by the government.

I will give a go on the book you mentioned once I get time.

This book is about ₹300 or so from Amazon, and well worth a read. I got one, lost it (or maybe gave it to a friend, who 'forgot' to return it), so bought another one. This is now with a friend who started the business of teaching OR in IIT Kanpur. He was surprised to learn that Hayek was quantitative as early as the 1940's (though not mentioned in the book). The problem is that in India we are mostly aware of the Keynesian liberal approach and know net to nothing about the Monetarist approach pioneered by Hayek. The most prominent modern day Hayekians were Thatcher and Reagan. Germany after WW-II has always been Monetarist.

[ecenandu]

Originally Posted by ecenandu

Sir, I have this theory on socialism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUxt--mMjwA

Yup, inspired(or ripped off) from this video.

You guys decide. .

[manim]

Anyone read Aynrand?

Particularly the non-fiction book called 'Capitalism, the unknown ideal'?

[JLS]

Originally Posted by manim

Anyone read Aynrand?

Particularly the non-fiction book called 'Capitalism, the unknown ideal'?

Not read 'Capitalism'. But can remember from 'Atlas Shrugged' - where in the group of leading characters hijack the world's communication systems and controls through use of self invented advanced technology. And then as a ransom they ask for removal of all taxes.
When I read the book, I took that as a portrayal of pure essence of 'might is right' philosophy. I think, capitalism is a more rounded off, polished and practical form of 'Might is Right'.

Regards
JLS

[Sawyer]

And now a new controversy erupts, on the GDP growth numbers and whether they are fudged in any way. As someone who knows very well how the market share game is played in corporates, I understand that anything is possible when it comes to numbers and statistics, so I doubt that anyone can say anything with certainty on this subject and the people releasing this aren't going to be forthcoming if there has been any fudging of any kind.

I wish though that there was a focus on where it needs to be - genuine and sustainable job creation. Unfortunately that statistic has always been an even bigger mystery in India for a long time. But with 250 million or so new jobs needing to be created by the time 2030 rolls around, it is very clearly something that needs to be on the front page all the time. If the right kind - and by that I mean other than the digging ditches for rural employment kind - of jobs are created, GDP growth will look after itself. But GDP can grow without these as well - in the short term. And for a country like India, that kind of growth is clearly not a sustainable solution.

[dailydriver]

William Butler Yeats wrote this in 1919.

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.....

Different times, different context. But the allegory?

Had to quote the above because I feel the government and its agencies have lost sight of their primary objective; that is if they ever had one!

I was all for demonetisation. My love for non cash transactions started in 2007. I rarely, if ever, went to bank in person. Online/mobile banking, debit-credit cards and cheque leaves were my instruments of transaction. In fact, I was one of the first customers to fight with the petrol pump manager in my place when he used to refuse card payments. Mind you, I did all this voluntarily.

Now, just to spite the powers that be, I feel like withdrawing the maximum cash permissible and dole it out wherever possible. I don't like being forced to do something-even if that something happens to be something that I like.

Today's news is that only four withdrawals /month/account will be without charges. The fifth and subsequent withdrawals will cost you dearly.

The common man is very very confused.

1. The government first asked him to deposit all his cash in the banks.
2. He couldn't withdraw it in the required quantity initially.
3. Now, to take out his own-hard earned-tax paid-forcibly kept in bank money, he is supposed to pay the bank.

The banks are happy to eat others' cake and have it too.

Now, what will the average Joe do?

Pretty simple. He will withdraw the maximum amount possible using the free transactions and hoard the money in his almirah.

Dear Demonitisation, RIP.

[Sawyer]

Excellent poem...Things fall apart was also the title of an excellent book - Akebe?

Maybe I am over reacting to the media that is everywhere these days, and maybe it is age, but the words strike an uncomfortable chord.

It also appears to me that we are getting polarised down/across many divides. Again, a perception that may be wrong.

[dailydriver]

Yes, Chinua Achebe. A writer I have a lot of respect for.

Polarisation along ideological lines leading to healthy and constructive debates/criticism would have been good. However, what we are witnessing these days is nothing more than narrow minded, parochial cliques guided by short term interests.

There lies the problem.

[SilentEngine]

Originally Posted by dailydriver

Now, just to spite the powers that be, I feel like withdrawing the maximum cash permissible and dole it out wherever possible. I don't like being forced to do something-even if that something happens to be something that I like.

Funny you say this. Ever since demonetization, I find myself having lot more cash at home or in my wallet than I used to earlier, with hardly any change in spending pattern. I still continue to use credit cards for almost all purchases as I used to earlier, so why am I carrying extra cash with me now?!

Issue I think now is government/banks are forcefully making it hard for people to withdraw money from their accounts. Forget ATM, I was told in SBM that they will not issue cheque books with more than 10 leaves in it even if you request for more. I don't know if this is SBM specific rule or common across but clearly they have got their priorities wrong.

[.sushilkumar]

Originally Posted by SilentEngine

Issue I think now is government/banks are forcefully making it hard for people to withdraw money from their accounts.

Apparently they need that cash for lending out to some big corporate houses. Pretty Obvious who they are. Per se few opinion makers, this was the main motive behind whole exercise.

To be honest, i was very happy with this step initially but given the way my taxes are going & ever increasing, I am completely disillusioned with the state of affairs. Current dispensation have failed to get their act on ground despite having a clear majority. I am hopeful that i will see some accountability in this lifetime from politicians / bureaucracy.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by SilentEngine

Funny you say this. Ever since demonetization, I find myself having lot more cash at home or in my wallet than I used to earlier, with hardly any change in spending pattern. I still continue to use credit cards for almost all purchases as I used to earlier, so why am I carrying extra cash with me now?!

I have got two cheque books of 20/25 leaves from my bank during January / February. So the decision must be bank specific.

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

Apparently they need that cash for lending out to some big corporate houses. Pretty Obvious who they are. Per se few opinion makers, this was the main motive behind whole exercise.

I guess you are joking. For corporate lending you do not need petty cash! Maybe you think the bank sends them some containers of currency.

[.sushilkumar]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I guess you are joking. For corporate lending you do not need petty cash! Maybe you think the bank sends them some containers of currency.

I am truly hoping it;s a joke that i heard but looking broader, that petty cash turned out to be in billions / trillions when all deposited across the banks in one go. May be my understanding is not correct but certainly there is no smoke without fire. Moreover, given the way media is compromised not all news gets out.

On top of it, they have imposed restrictions on withdrawal from those jandhan accounts as well, which received substantial deposits during demonetization. Not sure if that rule is still there or not given their flip flops so far.

[lambuhere1]

Just a mid diversion with all the madness with demonetization

Cross-posting

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post4157673

[dailydriver]

A WhatsApp campaign is going on asking people to register their protest against uncontrolled/unjustified transaction charges proposed to be levied by major banks through a boycot of all banking activities on 06/04/2017(No Transaction Day). What struck me as reasonable was the (of course slightly flawed) logic for the protest. Here's the extract:

We are taxed for earning money.
We are taxed for spending money.
We are taxed for hoarding money.
We are taxed for withdrawing money.
We are taxed for depositing money.
We are taxed for service charges
We are taxed for education
We are taxed for Swatch Bharat
We are taxed for purchase
We are taxed for sales
We are taxed for manufacturing
We are taxed for public utility

Earning is a crime.
Saving is a crime.
Spending is a crime.

Donating to Political Parties is the sole good act that is tax exempt.