[naveenroy]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

I'm of the view we should try to see the good side of people, but some of the things people do makes one wonder if we're all inherently evil and I'm a fool not to resign to that fact.

I've had crackers thrown at me multiple times

This! Feel like hunting down some of them a'la Ghostrider! And the noise. Sorry but in the old days when we burst crackers, it was in small towns where the streets were wide, there was wide empty spaces in front of our houses and the noise from crackers wasn't much. It is insanely irritating these days to have a loud bomb go off in some basement somewhere and the boom that follows. Not to mention the car alarms that keep going off. Enough of the loud stuff man. Think we need to outgrow them.

[::CMS::]

Originally Posted by lohithrao

he tells me that's the way it is

You should have bought few crackers and throw in b/n his legs and say the same to him.

[CliffHanger]

I've seen some people who are inconsiderate to others while bursting crackers and most of them behave that way due to the exuberance the festival brings in.

I'm for one all for bursting crackers on Diwali. Most statistics say that, though economically backward, Indians are one of the top most happiest people in the world. That is because of the long standing culture and tradition we have in our country, India.

Let's not get intertwined into some propaganda from vested interests and become self-loathing.

As a recent viral meme conveys - Industrial pollution 24/7 365 days. No problem. Vehicle pollution 24/7 365 days. No problem. Diwali 4 hours 1 day. Problem?

I'm all for bringing in certain norms like permitting crackers below certain decibels, etc. But will never trade in celebrating Diwali with crackers for some stupid people's opinion with hidden propaganda or for opinions from some people who crib about everything in life.

[shifu]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

Most statistics say that, though economically backward, Indians are one of the top most happiest people in the world.
.
.
I'm all for bringing in certain norms like permitting crackers below certain decibels, etc. But will never trade in celebrating Diwali with crackers for some stupid people's opinion with hidden propaganda or for opinions from some people who crib about everything in life.

Can you please share the source of these statistics? It'll be an interesting read.

While I respect your opinion, I would refrain from calling folks with the opposite opinion as 'stupid'.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

That is because of the long standing culture and tradition we have in our country, India.

SIR

Can you please tell me which of the following is correct:
(a) Diwali is a festival of lights
(b) Diwali is a festival of noise

Also if you look back in our history, the gunpowder (and thus the explosives) were brought in by the Mongols (who got it from Chinese).

I am sure the tradition of Diwali in India was not brought in by the invaders from North! (and definitely not from the Muslim kings around Delhi who fought the Mongols)

[CliffHanger]

Originally Posted by shifu

Can you please share the source of these statistics? It'll be an interesting read.

Please google.

While I respect your opinion, I would refrain from calling folks with the opposite opinion as 'stupid'.

Neither did I and neither do I.

Originally Posted by alpha1

SIR

Can you please tell me which of the following is correct:
(a) Diwali is a festival of lights
(b) Diwali is a festival of noise

Also if you look back in our history, the gunpowder (and thus the explosives) were brought in by the Mongols (who got it from Chinese).

I am sure the tradition of Diwali in India was not brought in by the invaders from North! (and definitely not from the Muslim kings around Delhi who fought the Mongols)

What is your point?

[Ohh!Oxygen]

I have been exuberantly bursting crackers and usually unapologetic about it. It comes once in a year and I like ladis and flower pots.
For last 10 years it has been a tradition to go to Hosur and fill up the trunk. Finally 3-4 families at one place on Diwali night with sweets, food etc.

Now the junior is grown up and he seems to be enjoying them. Wifey just hates it.

For some reason this Diwali was little different.
Many facts
1. Not keeping well. BLR climate was horrible. Soar throat, body ache
2. Junior and me both had minor burn injury.
3. One anathashram representative explained me how 1000 bucks can make a difference for hungry kids instead of buying crackers. She was very convincing and speaking in good english.

Next year I am planning a no bombs Diwali and who knows zero crackers the year after.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

What is your point?

The point is the human beings cannot close their ears like they can close their eyes.

Which means you are free to do all the lighting and crazy fireworks, and not worry about disturbing others.

BUT in a Civilized society, you don't have a right to create racket that will disturb everyone around you.

[ramzsys]

Earlier, in the farm fields, crackers were used to drive peacocks from wasting groundnut crops.

Now with all sorts of cracker sounds, they don't get disturbed as they used to.

[shifu]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

Please google.

I honestly did, and didn't get any results where we Indians were ranked top among the happiest people in the world. And from your 2-word response I make it that you don't have anything to back your statement as well.

I am proud of our tradition as well. But I don't about chest-thumping about it based on some non-existent statistics.

Edit: I just found this thread started by yourself. While you might find a million reasons on why this is a different situation, I find some similarities. Please think about it.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ould-i-do.html

[CliffHanger]

Originally Posted by alpha1

The point is the human beings cannot close their ears like they can close their eyes.

Which means you are free to do all the lighting and crazy fireworks, and not worry about disturbing others.

BUT in a Civilized society, you don't have a right to create racket that will disturb everyone around you.

I already made a point related to it. You missed reading it, I guess.

Originally Posted by shifu

I honestly did, and didn't get any results where we Indians were ranked top among the happiest people in the world. And from your 2-word response I make it that you don't have anything to back your statement as well.

Don't go on with your assumption spree, will you?

A couple of links below -

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/0...8190HR20120210
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/713750.stm
http://www.businessworld.in/news/eco...57/page-1.html

I am proud of our tradition as well. But I don't about chest-thumping about it based on some non-existent statistics.

Now that you have some articles to refer to, you don't have to go chest-thumping about it.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

I'm for one all for bursting crackers on Diwali. Most statistics say that, though economically backward, Indians are one of the top most happiest people in the world. That is because of the long standing culture and tradition we have in our country, India.


I'm all for bringing in certain norms like permitting crackers below certain decibels, etc. But will never trade in celebrating Diwali with crackers for some stupid people's opinion with hidden propaganda or for opinions from some people who crib about everything in life.

You have a good point about certain dB limit on cracker. But it still remains a racket if used at the dead of the night.

Originally Posted by alpha1

SIR

Can you please tell me which of the following is correct:
(a) Diwali is a festival of lights
(b) Diwali is a festival of noise

Also if you look back in our history, the gunpowder (and thus the explosives) were brought in by the Mongols (who got it from Chinese).

I am sure the tradition of Diwali in India was not brought in by the invaders from North! (and definitely not from the Muslim kings around Delhi who fought the Mongols)

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

What is your point?

Diwali is of course festival of lights.
It has never been a festival of noise. (except for recent indulgence in it).
Therefore which tradition is being harped about for making Indian the happiest lot in the context of Diwali and crackers?

Originally Posted by alpha1

The point is the human beings cannot close their ears like they can close their eyes.

Which means you are free to do all the lighting and crazy fireworks, and not worry about disturbing others.

BUT in a Civilized society, you don't have a right to create racket that will disturb everyone around you.

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

I already made a point related to it. You missed reading it, I guess.

You mean the deciBel one?
It is a noble thought, but impossible one.
Just like me wishing that idiots on the streets stop bursting crackers and stop making lives miserable of others.
A Noble though but impossible in India.

[CliffHanger]

Originally Posted by alpha1

You have a good point about certain dB limit on cracker. But it still remains a racket if used at the dead of the night.

I don't know about other cities, but in Chennai there is a rule not to burst crackers after 10 pm, and police do enforce that in their capacity.

Diwali is of course festival of lights.
It has never been a festival of noise. (except for recent indulgence in it).

As I said, I'm all for crackers that are within acceptable Db limits

Therefore which tradition is being harped about for making Indian the happiest lot in the context of Diwali and crackers?

You mean the deciBel one?
It is a noble thought, but impossible one.
Just like me wishing that idiots on the streets stop bursting crackers and stop making lives miserable of others.
A Noble though but impossible in India.

Till couple of years back you can go scot free driving drunk in Chennai, now it is almost impossible. Till a decade back, 4 lane highways, adequate transport facilities, decent banking facilities, etc were all a dream. Look at where we are now.

There are areas we need a lot of improvement, be it sanitation facilities, road manners, proper bureaucracies, etc, but these do not take away the fact that we are progressing in the right direction, and things that are considered impossible once, are indeed possible now. I can see strong leadership in the center, law enforcement getting better, technology developments, etc as a very positive sign for our country. Mission to Mars at the cost it was achieved is no mean feet and something everyone of us should be proud of.

Now, let me digress a bit -

A lot of us Indians have a very low opinion about ourselves, so let me quote something from the internet (Ignore the mention of author Chung here) -

"The Indian civilization put down their lofty philosophical thoughts in the Vedas and Upanishads as early as 5000 BC, when the west were doing grunt grunt for language. The Indians had lived all its glories that the west thinks it is attaining now 7000 year ago.

Look at our literature, sculptures, music, poetry. Could Jung ever think that the ancient Indian people who had such creativity could be looked down upon just like that –just because after 800 years of slavery the entire glory got hijacked,... "

I'm not trying to hide the problems that we have in our country, but I want all our fellow Indians to realize that we are equally superior to any other superior being in the world and don't have to blindly listen to vested interests' diktats or become self-loathing for the problems we face.

With things looking brighter than ever before, I think we have to pick up a momentum and make changes to live a life of prosperity and joy. Our traditions are full of allegories, understanding them can help us understand better realization of our lives.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

..........Our traditions are full of allegories, understanding them can help us understand better realization of our lives.

That my friend is our exact problem, and where the solution lies too.

The Indian sub-continent and the larger Asian continent was once the envy of the world. We were either pioneers or leaders in fields as diverse as philosophy, art, literature, architecture, education, mathematics, sciences, you name it.

But that was all in the past and as illustrious as it was, it's gone and we need to build forwards. I honestly believe India is one of the 'smartest' nations on the planet with a terrific workforce, but what have we done in nearly 70 years of Independence from the British to show for it? We haven't even managed to do away with laws that were written in the 19th century.

I do not doubt the capability of my nation and its collective people, but any progress has to be inclusive and wholesome. The Mars mission doesn't do anything to feed the 300+ million living below the poverty line. We're busy wasting millions of tonnes of foodgrain each year due to bureaucratic incompetence in storage, supply and retail chains one one hand, and rolling out food security schemes with the other hand that we don't have funds for.
That's just one problem off the top of my head, there's a similar one in any field you care to look at.

All this while other countries have bypassed us in development and progress. Look no further than Japan who had to almost literally rebuild their country after WW2, and look where they are compared to us in the same time-span of ~70 years.

We're smart, we're capable and we're definitely as good as anyone else. What we need is to stop living in the past. That we were great in the past should be a matter of shame given how far we've fallen, not something to thump our chests about. We have a low opinion of our present because we know exactly how glorious the past was. The greatness needs to be rebuilt anew, not dreamt of with rose-tinted antique glasses.

[CliffHanger]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

That my friend is our exact problem, and where the solution lies too.

Sorry to say, I see only the problem in your post and not the solutions.

But that was all in the past and as illustrious as it was, it's gone and we need to build forwards.

Agreed. Aren't we building our nation? Compare the employment opportunities now and compare it with what it was a decade and a half before. That is just one example but an important example.

I honestly believe India is one of the 'smartest' nations on the planet with a terrific workforce, but what have we done in nearly 70 years of Independence from the British to show for it? We haven't even managed to do away with laws that were written in the 19th century.

We could have surely done better in the past 70 years. But considering the unique diversity we have in our country and considering the number of years we have been divided and ruled, I think it took people so many years to get back to normalcy of dignified life. But again, we could have surely done better.

The Mars mission doesn't do anything to feed the 300+ million living below the poverty line.

I find this statement to be very immature.

Please understand the technologies developed for this mission will eventually be used for the better good of the nation. Haven't you heard of India having its own satellite for education and agriculture? Haven't you heard of stuffs developed in the military being used in building things for people's everyday use?

We're busy wasting millions of tonnes of foodgrain each year due to bureaucratic incompetence in storage, supply and retail chains one one hand, and rolling out food security schemes with the other hand that we don't have funds for.
That's just one problem off the top of my head, there's a similar one in any field you care to look at.

Agreed. There are plenty of areas we need to improve upon.

All this while other countries have bypassed us in development and progress. Look no further than Japan who had to almost literally rebuild their country after WW2, and look where they are compared to us in the same time-span of ~70 years.

When parents are asked not to compare their two children, how can you compare two nations?

While not taking away the credit from Japan, the problems faced by Japan and by India are different.

That we were great in the past should be a matter of shame given how far we've fallen, not something to thump our chests about.

I don't know what makes you to write such statements. We do have problems and most of us acknowledge them. There is nothing to be ashamed of. Nobody can be perfect all the time!

We have a low opinion of our present because we know exactly how glorious the past was. The greatness needs to be rebuilt anew, not dreamt of with rose-tinted antique glasses.

Most Indians do not dream the whole day!