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View Poll Results: Will you burn crackers this diwali?
Yes 262 35.26%
No 428 57.60%
Maybe 53 7.13%
Voters: 743. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 8th November 2018, 01:05   #586
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Default Re: Will you burn crackers this diwali?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithaca View Post
I don't know very much about the law.
All I know is that a lot of people are happily blasting crackers here in Vashi, Nerul & Seawoods after the permitted time limit.
Seems like the cops are letting the time limit ban slide.

As some are mentioning on twitter, mass contempt of court is going on now all over the country..

https://twitter.com/UnSubtleDesi/sta...25640492756993
AQI post Diwali celebrations in Delhi and Mumbai. My cousin told me that this time in North Delhi people are bursting crackers even more than before, just as a sign of protest of the courts "attack".

The irony! Cutting of the nose to spite the face

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Last edited by tsk1979 : 8th November 2018 at 01:09.
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Old 8th November 2018, 03:28   #587
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Default Re: Will you burn crackers this diwali?

Aannnd just a few hours later
Remember its not 999. Its much higher. The instruments have an upper limit
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The PM2.5 map after 6 hours gap
14 UTC

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22 UTC

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Old 8th November 2018, 04:00   #588
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Default Re: Will you burn crackers this diwali?

Ok, I live in Dwarka, New Delhi and can confidently say that today was a significant reduction in crackers related pollution wrt Diwali 2016 (I was not in town Diwali last year). It's been a relatively quieter and cleaner Diwali, and I prefer it this way.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 8th November 2018 at 06:56. Reason: Typo.
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Old 8th November 2018, 05:33   #589
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Default Re: Will you burn crackers this diwali?

This year in Bangalore it looks quite clearly like people are more aware and then overall noise and air pollution levels seems to have come down considerably in comparison to the past. Even last evening there were only sporadic bursts of firecrackers. Overall, the whole Diwali Crackers madness seems to be reducing, with people preferring to go with lovely lamps and lights in their houses.
We also didnít burn a single flowerpot or sparkler this year. We never liked bombs, ever. But this year we even eschewed the simpler fireworks.
One more good thing,on my early morning ride on the cycle, I am seeing far less litter and cracker debris too.
All in all, a very good sign!
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Old 8th November 2018, 06:38   #590
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Default Re: Will you burn crackers this diwali?

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Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
Exactly, the court keeps telling people how to live their lives, which firecrackers to burn, how long can they be burnt, etc.

Here's the scientific proof that you asked.

Quote:
A thick haze engulfed the national capital Wednesday night with the air quality deteriorating to the "very poor" category as Delhiites continued to burst firecrackers long after the deadline set by the Supreme Court, the authorities said.

The overall Air Quality Index (AQI) was recorded at 302 at 11 pm, which fell in the very poor category, according to the Central Pollution Control Board (CPCB).

The air quality started deteriorating rapidly from 7 pm. The AQI was 281 at 7 pm. It rose to 291 at 8 pm and further deteriorated to 294 at 9 pm and 296 at 10 pm, according to the CPCB.

source: https://www.ndtv.com/delhi-news/diwa...-curbs-1944174


One can absolve themselves of the guilt with ''Once a year... for the sake of kids''. But what is the sustainable culture, quality of air and resources we are leaving (after (ab)using) for the kids?

Last edited by ramzsys : 8th November 2018 at 06:40.
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Old 8th November 2018, 06:50   #591
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Default Re: Will you burn crackers this diwali?

For those who chose to not burst loud crackers - THANK YOU.

I'm not in the country but I'm part of the few humans that have less biological tolerance (or immunity) to air pollution and I appreciate what you have done. I'm sure you would have earned goodwill from people like us.

Early this year, on the last day of my trip to India, I woke up to smoggy Chennai. Fellow religious customs abiding citizens had chosen to burn stuff for Boghi/Pongal and presented an environment that was unsuitable for few people like me. I ended up paying the price with respiratory related issues. Not a biggie but not a pleasant one obviously. So I can empathise when people talk about the excessive pollution.

It was a super hot and humid day at Brisbane yesterday. A fellow Indian bought several boxes of ice cream cones for an entire floor and went around distributing them and telling people that it's Diwali and they ought to have a sweet treat. IMHO that defines the Diwali spirit for me.
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Old 8th November 2018, 09:19   #592
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Default Re: Will you burn crackers this diwali?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
Here's the scientific proof that you asked.
source: https://www.ndtv.com/delhi-news/diwa...-curbs-1944174
Dear @ramzsys, Thank you for sharing this article. My post is aimed at the article and not at you.

Typical NDTV report – left leaning and inadequate data. Put up a screaming headline and then provide inadequate facts. While I don’t want to dispute the measurements of AQI the most important ingredient is missing. How does this compare to other days at the same time? How did it compare to Diwali night last year or 20 years ago. Delhi-NCR’s early winter mild fog has started so the haze is there for meteorological reasons too not just fireworks.

Was the AQI significantly worse than comparable nights or roughly the same or better. Without comparative data we don't know.

Quote:
Several areas showed a spike in the air pollution. Areas like Anand Vihar, ITO and Jahangirpuri recorded very high pollution levels.
This could be as much due to vehicular pollution as these are some of the most crowded areas. ITO as Delhi's biggest most crowded junction and Jahangirpuri as one of the largest (in area) poor over crowded localities. Not sure how they link it to fireworks? With everyone travelling around to greet & meet everyone else vehicular traffic in Delhi-NCR peaks out to nutty levels on and just before Diwali. How is NDTV separating the two? Why is NDTV implying by conjecture that fireworks has caused this. In fact ITO is largely not at all a residential area even. You can take a circle of diameter of 1.5 kms with ITO at the centre and wont find many residential building/bunglows. Delhi is not like Mumbai in this respect.
Quote:
Violations of the Supreme Court order were reported from Mayur Vihar Extension, Lajpat Nagar, Lutyens Delhi, IP extension, Dwarka, Noida Sector 78 among other places.
Are they referring here to sale of banned fireworks? or to air pollution levels. I could not find any ‘green’ fireworks at any shop because the order banning non-green fireworks came too late for production or distribution. Lutyens Delhi - well < clearing my throat> that's where the ministers, IAS, judges and other worthies live.
Quote:
The situation was similar, if not worse, in the neighbouring areas of Delhi such as Gurugram, Noida and Ghaziabad, where crackers were burst as usual, raising question marks on the efficacy of the administration in enforcing the top court's ban.
Give us more data NDTV. Don’t make lay statements. I live in Gurgaon and I can vouch there was almost no noise. The day before I was in Noida visiting folks in the PM and there was almost no noise there too. In fact this was the quietest Diwali I have witnessed - good or sad that each can decide for themselves.

What causes more pollution a firework device that burns for 30 seconds or a diya that is lit for 6 hours? - home work for NDTV to do.

What causes more pollution Diwali or the transport millions of Indians take each day travelling to courts for their disputes that don't get addressed for years and years. - more homework for NDTV to think of.

I am not decrying air pollution (hell, I live in it) but the awfully narrow perspective with which it is viewed by arms of our Govt.

Last edited by V.Narayan : 8th November 2018 at 09:31.
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Old 8th November 2018, 09:52   #593
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Default Re: Will you burn crackers this diwali?

Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
Dear @ramzsys, Thank you for sharing this article. My post is aimed at the article and not at you.

Typical NDTV report – left leaning and inadequate data.
I searched for karl marx's war cry in the article but could not find it? Can you point me to the attack of the communists in the article?
As for data, I posted AQI data as well as satellite data showing the extreme sharp spike in pollution. I took care not to take sources form Soviet russia

Last edited by tsk1979 : 8th November 2018 at 09:59.
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Old 8th November 2018, 10:12   #594
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Default Re: Will you burn crackers this diwali?

I voted No.

But in reality, I had to succumb to my wife's plea to burn a few crackers as a tradition. So got 1 packet of sparklers having 5 of them. Also lit just a few earthen lamps and that's it. I feel happy.

I noticed a very muted "choti" Diwali and a quieter Diwali here in Hyderabad. When I stepped out onto the road at night, I could see a change. Many homes were happily lit with lamps/LEDs but no crackers burning outside. Some of them who did, did it at a much lower scale. Even the crackers shops in my locality seemed to have few visitors in the past few days. Hope the trend continues.
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Old 8th November 2018, 11:57   #595
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Default Re: Will you burn crackers this diwali?

This year, I did enjoy the fireworks.

Except for last year and this, all of my Diwalis were back at home, in Haryana. While except for 2016, the pollution levels were not that alarming at home, I didn't burn any crackers for more than a decade. It just felt like a crime to me (I don't hold opinion on people who burnt crackers). Invariably, the next day was a little more smokey. The old people around were hiding in their blankets because they couldn't take the smoke. Also, the kind of disturbance it caused to buffaloes and cows in the neighborhood, who couldn't sleep due to noise.

It changed last year, after moving to Pune. I have a son now and he kind of enjoyed it last year. So, this year, I got a few for him and we quite enjoyed the fireworks here. Strangely, I didn't feel any guilt as there are very few domestic animals around, and I know that the air will be alright by the next day.

Indulgence has its own fun. We, team-bhpians indulge in a lot of things, don't we?
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Old 8th November 2018, 13:54   #596
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Default Re: Will you burn crackers this diwali?

No crackers for me.

The neighborhood however thinks otherwise and I am forced to peek out of the window every five minutes, expecting an unpleasant rendezvous between the rockets and the lesser vehicles parked helplessly on the roadside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aah78 View Post
Note
I understand. But such a novel take on green crackers couldn't remain unposted here. (Please remove/move if needed, thanks!)
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Old 8th November 2018, 14:15   #597
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Default Re: Will you burn crackers this diwali?

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
...inadequate data..... How does this compare to other days at the same time? How did it compare to Diwali night last year or 20 years ago. Delhi-NCR’s early winter mild fog has started so the haze is there for meteorological reasons too not just fireworks....
All that smoke's got to go somewhere Sirjee, ain't it?

I'm anal about details in a debate by default, but I find the 'we're dying of pollution anyway so how much more can one extra dose of smoke kill us' mindset amusing, esp. so since our approach to pretty much every other dire situation in life is to salvage what we can, not torch the whole thing on a whim. I wonder what's different in this instance? Diwali smoke may or may not make the situation tolerably worse (define tolerably, again), but I'd be inclined to think none of us can disagree it doesn't make it better.

Our kids and grandkids will care a lot more about being able to breathe day to day than any specific traditions we'd like them to uphold. One's got to survive and be able-bodied to do things alive and healthy people do, right? There's no culture and traditions without people to celebrate and pass them on.

I'll stay out of the whole legal, political and religious tradition angle because that will never get anywhere without getting all participants infracted or banned.

I guess you can chalk me up into the 'we didn't inherit the world from our elders, we borrowed it from our kids' bunch.

P.S. Personal experience, my last visit to NCR to my in-laws' place aggravated my respiratory issues so badly I had bloody coughing bouts for nearly 3 months. The better half now refuses to take me along unless absolutely necessary. The situation now may not be measurably worse, but I'm sure it hasn't got tolerably better. I'll report back after my next visit

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 8th November 2018 at 14:21.
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Old 8th November 2018, 14:38   #598
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Default Re: Will you burn crackers this diwali?

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
'we didn't inherit the world from our elders, we borrowed it from our kids'
Surprisingly, a majority of school going children I spoke to - sons and daughters of self, friends, neighbors - are either not interested at all in bursting crackers or are at most willing to buy a few sparklers and flower pots. Strange are the ways of Generation (PUB) G!

Of course, the time honored tradition of cracking reel patakis using imitation guns still remains popular. With two days of Diwali over, I am bracing myself for the whiff of sulphur and carbon that will remain in air and pervade my home till the next Sunday.

Quote:
The better half now refuses to take me along unless absolutely necessary.
And instead of counting your blessings, you choose to complain about the futility of crackers . Not done!
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Old 8th November 2018, 15:18   #599
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Default Re: Will you burn crackers this diwali?

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Originally Posted by dailydriver View Post
Surprisingly, a majority of school going children I spoke to - sons and daughters of self, friends, neighbors - are either not interested at all in bursting crackers or are at most willing to buy a few sparklers and flower pots. Strange are the ways of Generation (PUB) G!
For one there is a genuine concern for environment & surroundings - to keep it clean. Note, for instance, vehicles belching smoke are perceived to be more polluting than emitting carbon monoxide. Crackers are a highly visible form of air, sound pollution and hence perceived to be highly polluting.

In current times, there is plenty of alternatives to burning crackers like Netflix, Amazon, DTH, YouTube, WhatsApp. Crackers get a lesser timeshare.

Then there is the risk of playing with fire, like a harmless flowerpot may explode while lighting. Why get exposed to danger?

Finally the cost of crackers. I had mentioned in the earlier post on how crackers are marked up high and sold at a huge discount. On the same box of crackers, the different retailer offers discounts ranging from 75% to 90%. These variations leave the customers feeling cheated. BTW, cost of crackers can cover the cost of a movie & dinner for a family at the mall. This option wasn't available a decade back.
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Old 8th November 2018, 15:21   #600
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Default Re: Will you burn crackers this diwali?

Diwali has come and gone, and as usual, I have burned no crackers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
How does this compare to other days at the same time? How did it compare to Diwali night last year or 20 years ago. Delhi-NCRís early winter mild fog has started so the haze is there for meteorological reasons too not just fireworks.
While I agree with the overall theme of your message, the poor (lazy?) NDTV reporting can be a thread on its own, but some points -

1) When the AQI readings have been in saturation for a while, it makes no difference (sense) to even think of a comparison. We have been off the linear region of the instrument measuring capacity - it doesn't matter if I drown in 100m deep water to 10,000m deep water. I am just drowned (and history!).

2) As pointed out by others, every bit of pollution adds to our misery. The smog has come from all the pollutants that react up with the atmosphere in presence of light (sun) and heat. Sitting too deep into saturation of measurements, we will never know what fraction is coming from where. But this much we can surely be confident of - they are all adding up.

I can very well imagine a hypothetical narrative growing where we now start meaningfully questioning as to why exactly were we burning and blowing things up in the name of tradition? Celebrating victory, enlightenment, evil-free world, etc. But we are neck deep in all that. So instead of torching random objects, may as well (legally) blow up those evil-doers!

[Apologies if it's too OT. To be read with a light heart, intended to be so.]
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