[RajaTaurus]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

There's a strong 'Is my money safe with these things?' mindset at play and it won't go away easily, if ever, with a generation which considers technology an afterthought. Slow and steady, I keep reminding myself!

Wow! That's a sweeping statement to say the least. 'Technology as an afterthought'! Do you mean there was no "Technology" existing ever during previous generations or finger swiping is only "Technology" in the Universe? I am not against Digitization, but it has nothing to do with generation. Watch the movie "The Intern" and you will realize what I am saying. With all the Technologies, Chennai was totally down during Vardha cyclone just because Internet and mobile phones were down. Imagine one serious hacker gets into a bank's computer system and wipes out everything including their backups and backup of backups? What happens to your money? Whom you will ask?
Note to Mods: sorry for being OT and definitely no intention of starting any controversy. Please delete if it is found unsuitable for the thread. Just my feelings.

[landcruiser123]

One institution that still hasn't gone cashless is the (small) post office.
I had to pay Rs. 670 for a speed post to the USA and they told me that I have to pay by cash only.

They did grumble a bit, but gave me change for the Rs. 2000 note.

That said, while I'm in favour of this cashless economy, I'll still encourage people to keep a 1000 rupees in cash on hand. The small road side tyre repair man/mechanic isn't going to accept a card/PayTM. Chances that you need his service is small, but having cash can save you from a 1 hour delay on a trip.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by RajaTaurus

Wow! That's a sweeping statement to say the least. 'Technology as an afterthought'! Do you mean there was no "Technology" existing ever during previous generations or finger swiping is only "Technology" in the Universe? I am not against Digitization, but it has nothing to do with generation. Watch the movie "The Intern" and you will realize what I am saying. With all the Technologies, Chennai was totally down during Vardha cyclone just because Internet and mobile phones were down. Imagine one serious hacker gets into a bank's computer system and wipes out everything including their backups and backup of backups? What happens to your money? Whom you will ask?
Note to Mods: sorry for being OT and definitely no intention of starting any controversy. Please delete if it is found unsuitable for the thread. Just my feelings.

One, there's no need to get aggressive. Doesn't hurt to be civil.

Two, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

Do you mean technology has its limitations as was evident in the recent Chennai weather-related outages? I've been saying the same thing on the previous couple of pages, esp. about cashless payments options not having proper security and support systems and needing time to mature before people can trust them without concerns, if you go back and re-read.

As for technology, even the wheel was 'technology' to someone who was used to rolling along stuff on logs or dragging it with ropes, so no, I don't believe technology started with 'finger-swiping', whatever that's supposed to mean!

My comment was obviously meant in the context that generations prior to ours didn't (and still don't) consider technology as a must-have in their lives, because they were born and have lived in times where most day-to-day financial and social transactions didn't necessarily involve gadgets by default (like it does today) and they would 'prefer' to deal with a person rather than a machine, given a choice. So yes, technology is an 'afterthought' to them. Convenient? Sure. Essential? No.

I'll probably have a hard time surviving peacefully without the convenience technology offers while my parents, used as they are now to modern gadgets, would probably just shrug off their absence as another inconvenience and get on with life.

I've seen the movie, liked it too. One of my best friends is old enough to be my grandfather and is probably the most curious person I know, willing to learn new stuff everyday just for the fun of it. The guy has probably forgotten more than I've learnt in life, several times over, and I prefer his company to people my own age. I also know people half his age who refuse to learn anything they feel they don't need to survive.

Everyone can learn, but not everyone has the same aptitude or attitude, so maybe it's you who's generalizing?

[rvd8732]

On the other hand, we have something new called UPI (Unified Payment Interface) which ICICI Bank has interfaced within their Net/App Banking. The same interface is called as SBI Buddy. I believe UPI is the best payment interface because it’s unified with all the banks.

UPI is safer and better than other payment gateway and does not offer cashback or goodies for now.

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by rvd8732

On the other hand, we have something new called UPI (Unified Payment Interface) which ICICI Bank has interfaced within their Net/App Banking. The same interface is called as SBI Buddy. I believe UPI is the best payment interface because it’s unified with all the banks.

UPI is safer and better than other payment gateway and does not offer cashback or goodies for now.

The BHIM App unifies the UPI across banks. So with the one App, you can do UPI based payments instead of having a Bank Specific App.

Also tried the USSD mode (*99# - meant for feature phones) and it worked well and is easy to use.

The initial concern I had was on security. Did some reading and confirmed that it pulls account details based on the mobile number linked to the bank account. The App is bound to the mobile number and device id. In addition, the App is protected by a PIN and each transfer is protected by the UPI Pin. So security wise, I feel it is as good or bad as anything else currently out there.

Hope this catches on and all the issues and bugs are worked out in quick time.

[Ragavsr]

Despite being a tech savvy 23 year old who uses all types of cashless payment modes , I prefer good old cold hard cash.

Mind you, I don't have even a paisa of black money, but nothing can beat the convenience of cash.

Take the Chennai floods of 2015 or the storm last December, the infrastructure for mobile payments is very poor. All mobile networks were down for atleast 3 days on both occasions and you will have to starve if you don't have cash.

People have been going ga ga over the advantages of credit cards. Try closing one card and you will know the pain. CIBIL has become more like an extortion tool. Most banks take their own sweet time in processing closing requests ( request sent after paying all dues ) and pile on charges and interest for meagre amounts say less than 100 bucks and at the end of six months , you will receive a five figure bill which don't waive off completely and file a CIBIL entry if you refuse to pay.

There has been a very similar case in the credit card thread of our own forum. I am never going to get a credit card unless they reform this CIBIL. I don't want to ruin my good score just for a few reward points .

[Chetan_Rao]

ICICI also has a SmartKeys keyboard feature, basically an add-on keyboard plugin that one can switch to within an App (WhatsApp, Messenger etc.) and transfer funds without leaving the app.

Pretty neat feature for ICICI iMobile App users.

[dmplog]

Originally Posted by amit_rai

In one go, you can pay/receive maximum 10000 rs. Maximum 20000 within 24 hours. I think the limit may increase as government gathers more data.

Originally Posted by narayans80

Thanks. 20K is more than enough.

What I was interested if there was any limit of the number of transactions/days as such. Like 50 or 100 per day types? Something that would be useful when on a drive and making low value transactions (paying tolls, highway eateries etc).

I think the limit must be higher. I did few transactions yesterday (not thorough BHIM UPI App but another Bank's dedicated UPI App). One of the transactions was 25K + and some other smaller amounts (~100-500 Rs).

[vinodh_eee]

Airtel charged me 50p every time I use *99# USSD based fund transfer. Any idea if other operators do the same?

[V12Doc]

Cashless is good only for some limited stuff. At the end you are being charged to use your own cash. Banks will be milking on everyone. It might be a minor charge but still a charge is a charge. I am very tech savvy but still not buying this cashless economy thing. It still has a long way to go. We are the privileged class with access to everything. And we make up a very small percentage of India. People have feelings attached to cash. There was a scheme recently launched by punjab government which could make farmers bypass commission agents and also provided loans. Why it failed because the payment went in the bank rather than cash payments. Cash has a lot of emotional value attached to it for people. I dont see a labourer , farmer and many other classes of society going cash free. Moreover it a burden on the seller who is already selling on a slim margin. Imagine him giving 2.5% of The sale amount to bank just to sell the item where the profit margin might be 5-10%. In case of 10% margin its like giving 25% of ur profit to bank. Either the buyer would have to cough that up and thats another problem here as nobody likes to spend money to spend their own money. Thats where cashless fails in a country like india where we work so hard to squeeze out that last rupee from the customer. Unless this service charge goes its not going to be widely adopted. Our government is bound to provide us a medium to use our money without it getting deducted. For small transactions that are immediate transactions Cash is and will always be king. For larger transactions cheques, rtgs and neft would do. I dont see my city going cashless anytime soon even though it is a very well developed city. There is still a mental block in people. The bank person trust is not upto the mark. There is no bank customer privacy. India has a long way to go to for going cashless. A month of problem and i am yet to see a labourer/ contract worker taking money cashless or a farmer selling his produce using paytm.
Main problems are as under-
1. Complexity - Cash is the easiest medium of transaction
2. Infrastructure - India doesnt have the infrastructure for going cashless
3. Emotional value attached to cash similar to gold. You wouldnt spend cash as easily as you would swipe a card. There was a research where people with cash spent less and card spent more
4. Security- I dont trust the cashless system. Way too. Imagine you sleeping and someone types in the right numbers and does the transactions. Boom gone. The reason i dont get cards or have online bank. I am okay with going to bank for transactions
5. Learning curve - the learning curve associated with cash is zero. With cashless you need to get everything setup and going
6. In panic mode aka emergency cash is always going to have value. There are way too many failiure points in case of a cashless.
7. Point of failiures - Cash - none
Cashless - 1. User end 2. Gateway 3. Bank end
I was trying to make a payment online for my registration took me two days to get it done. There was server overload or gateway failure
8. Bank negligence- the service of banks is not at par for cashless. Redressal is bad, if you are not worth a lot to the bank good luck getting the staff to listen to you in case of a problem.

Advantages i could think of
1. Your own safety - biggest advantage
2. Easy to maintain your books as when we spend in cash we either take a receipt or note it down for updating books
3. Personal financing like budgeting as you always have track of how much money u have left N how much and where u spent. When in cash sometimes you don't remember how much money u have left or where u spent if u get lazy
4. Access to all your money at anytime of the day - could be positive for worse case scenarios and negative in case of security

[RajaTaurus]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

One, there's no need to get aggressive. Doesn't hurt to be civil.

Two, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

Do you mean technology has its limitations as was evident in the recent Chennai weather-related outages? I've been saying the same thing on the previous couple of pages, esp. about cashless payments options not having proper security and support systems and needing time to mature before people can trust them without concerns, if you go back and re-read.

As for technology, even the wheel was 'technology' to someone who was used to rolling along stuff on logs or dragging it with ropes, so no, I don't believe technology started with 'finger-swiping', whatever that's supposed to mean!

My comment was obviously meant in the context that generations prior to ours didn't (and still don't) consider technology as a must-have in their lives, because they were born and have lived in times where most day-to-day financial and social transactions didn't necessarily involve gadgets by default (like it does today) and they would 'prefer' to deal with a person rather than a machine, given a choice. So yes, technology is an 'afterthought' to them. Convenient? Sure. Essential? No.

I'll probably have a hard time surviving peacefully without the convenience technology offers while my parents, used as they are now to modern gadgets, would probably just shrug off their absence as another inconvenience and get on with life.

I've seen the movie, liked it too. One of my best friends is old enough to be my grandfather and is probably the most curious person I know, willing to learn new stuff everyday just for the fun of it. The guy has probably forgotten more than I've learnt in life, several times over, and I prefer his company to people my own age. I also know people half his age who refuse to learn anything they feel they don't need to survive.

Everyone can learn, but not everyone has the same aptitude or attitude, so maybe it's you who's generalizing?

My point here is
1. Internet and online transactions can't be generalized as "technology". Remember, that generation invented computers, mobile phones and internet and this generation is developing and 'App'ing it. Doing things online is a 'convenience' and not 'tech-savvy', as being projected.
2. Technology has been ESSENTIAL always, like you said since the invention of wheel. Every technology has been 'applied' to make life better and IT is just a branch. Every generation has used it to the best possible. It has NEVER been an afterthought for any generation.
3. Yes. Habits die hard and elder people do not let go their way of dealing with things before making sure they are convinced. Call it wisdom rather than 'afterthought'!.
4. Finally, sorry to have been aggressive. I can only smile to see this generation to be so much dependent on their 'smart phones' that they think earth will come to stand still if the 'technology' cease to work.
Never mind blah blah of this old man and please move on.

[mxx]

Originally Posted by vinodh_eee

Airtel charged me 50p every time I use *99# USSD based fund transfer. Any idea if other operators do the same?

Not sure about banking/fund transfer, but USSD services are usually charged by service provider.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by RajaTaurus

My point....

I guess the whole conversation is limited by the meaning and context we attach to words, and I get you viewpoint entirely.

Every bit of progress is 'technology', and people have of course adopted (and adapted to) new stuff through the ages. I don't see anyone insisting on riding horses anymore, now that motorised vehicles are commonplace.

Call it what we may (I'll refrain from calling it technology), the previous generations put more emphasis on human relationships and contact over gadgetry and convenience, and that extends to their monetary dealings too. Combine that with the newer platforms still being nascent, and their skepticism is understandable.

They'll all adapt, but it won't all happen immediately or at the same pace for all of them. There's a social side to these relationships, and value systems can't be changed overnight.

As for being old, I have no idea how old or young you are Good Sir, and it's best to treat an argument at its own merit, rather than the age of the one making it. Relevance is ageless, I know from personal experience so I wouldn't make the mistake of dismissing an opinion from an 'old man'.

Good day to you!

[RajaTaurus]

@chetan_Rao, appreciate your response in it's right sense. Give them time and you will be surprised to see their response in adapting with all pros and cons taken care of. It is exposure that gives familiarity and comfort in use of any gadget. A spanner to a mechanic, a syringe to a doctor, a rifle to a soldier. Exchange and they will fumble. As you rightly said, all are not same and they might take different time to adapt. It happens to anybody and not to pin it on a particular generation.
Fyi, I am 56. - regards.

[Sebring]

Had our first run in with 'cashless' when my sister paid for the Dish Tv subscription via debit card. Shopkeeper charged 200 extra for this 'special service' and later Dish TV denies receiving the payment for 5 straight days. Matter was only resolved when they contacted the agent directly, who helped out (in a way).