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Old 21st February 2018, 18:37   #61
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

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Originally Posted by vishnurp99 View Post
... Mortgage lending issue was a real estate bubble across the US mortgage market. Bubbles burst all the time because of legitimate business reasons.

What happened in PNB was not really a bubble.....
The 'bubble' you refer to was US lenders handing out loans intentionally to people lacking the capacity to repay (sub-prime mortgages), then the banks holding those loans repackaging them with other financial products to pass them off as valid and profitable assets, when in truth they were junk. Combine that with everyone in the chain either unwilling or negligent of performing due diligence, and the disaster that ensued was a matter of when, not if. Nothing 'legitimate' about why it happened.

The specifics are obviously different across countries, but it all boils down to bad lending practices, combined with an intent to subvert the regulatory mechanisms in place, while simultaneously lobbying lawmakers to weaken the same mechanisms so it becomes easier to indulge in such practices.

What's happening now is NOT an isolated failure. The Mallya saga has about eleven(?) banks caught up in the mess. The Indian banking system has regulatory mechanisms, but they aren't being uniformly implemented. How else can one explain why a common Joe is put through the grinder for a relatively minuscule loan, while these guys manage to secure loans worth several orders of magnitude more than any collateral they can furnish? 'Brand value' is a volatile and ultimately meaningless mirage as a sound financial basis.
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Old 21st February 2018, 20:28   #62
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

What if these guys are just fronts? Who was Nirav Modi around 2008? Nobody. One fine day I see a massive Nirav Modi ad near Warden road/peddar road and I'm thinking, who the hell is this guy? How does one become so big so quick in a saturated market? Is it coincidence that he was paying a ridiculous amount as rent to a politician and was also doling out massive discounts on jewels to his wife? What was the Ranbir Kapoor of banking (Raghuram Rajan) doing when banks were just giving money away?

I don't think there is any intelligence in being used by politicians to make the politicians rich and in turn getting some "pocket change". Why were the banks restructuring Mallya's loans and even issuing fresh loans even though he hadn't paid the existing loans? He cannot hide behind the excuse of high fuel prices taking him down. The other players like Jet Airways survived in that period.

/end rant.
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Old 21st February 2018, 21:34   #63
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

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no other party has reversed the move inspite of having been in power for many years starting since 1977. Having so much power at their beck and call suits all of them equally;
Exactly. Yes, it is the easy patronage that Public sector banks provide to the politicians that will keep it going. No party is going to privatize the PSBs. Where else will they get their funds from and then conveniently declare it as NPA ?

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It isn't the ownership or lack thereof that is driving the behaviour, it is the lack of accountability everywhere.
I agree. There is a general lack of accountability culture that pervades corporate India. We all have seen the Satyam scam done by a private company with the connivance of big "respectable" auditing firms. But the impact of a private sector bank failing because of fraud is much lesser on the society and the country than a PSB failing.

Now government will pump in more money, do more for "recapitalizing" these slothful behemoths; Or in other words, print more money, increase inflation and bring more misery to every poor Indian.
---

This author makes the same point on nationalization here to prevent such future scams.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 06:22   #64
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

Good article, but where it loses the plot is in this correct quote:
"Politicians have an immense resource at their disposal—the ability to arrange cheap credit for risky businesses in exchange for campaign finance. They leverage this resource and pass the bill to the taxpayers."

Given the above, which prime minister would do this? Which party would allow its leader to do this? Which opposition would cooperate? The only way to do this is by taking this power from him and using it to do this. But who is to do this without also destroying Indian democracy? That is the Great Indian Conundrum, and it applies to more than just this single circumstance of bank ownership.

Air India remains an unsolved issue for a smaller but similar reason; no politician or bureaucrat will sign away the travelling perks it offers them, so easily.

GoI will talk of privatisation, but will want this to be done while retaining the control majority that allows the retention of patronage powers. Which private investor would be a sucker to be a partner on these terms?
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Old 22nd February 2018, 08:15   #65
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

There is another unfortunate consequence of this that will unfold. As it is, one big reason why we do not have a culture of entrepreneurship and innovation is that it is not easy to shut down and quit failing businesses by a formal declaration of bankruptcy. And it is even more difficult for a person that has so declared himself to move on to open a new business. It is the presence of this churn that drives a lot of business creation and growth in the West. Legitimate failures not involving frauds are quickly seen as honest mistakes to be used a ladder to try again and often, to eventual success. And failing businesses are not allowed to remain a drag on everyone.

With these scams, any progress towards the building of that much needed business environment will not happen in the foreseeable future.

Which will be one more hurdle to the creation of the millions of jobs that are needed for us to remain viable as a nation.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 16:13   #66
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

Nirav Modi's car collection:

Rolls Royce Ghost
Porsche Panamera
Mercedes Benz GLS 350 CDI
Mercedes Benz C Class
Toyota Fortuner
Toyota Innova
Honda CR-V

http://www.news18.com/news/auto/pnb-...i-1668461.html
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Old 23rd February 2018, 11:37   #67
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Enforcement Directorate has seized 9 cars including Rolls Royce Ghost, Porsche Panamera, 2 Mercedes Benz, 3 Honda's, 1 Toyota Fortuner & an Innova of Nirav Modi & his companies.

Source: https://twitter.com/dir_ed/status/966547350477881344

The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others-r1.jpg

The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others-r2.jpg

The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others-r3.jpg

Last edited by PPS : 23rd February 2018 at 11:38.
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Old 24th February 2018, 09:09   #68
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

Does anyone the names of the foreign banks that lent the money?
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Old 24th February 2018, 11:38   #69
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

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Enforcement Directorate has seized 9 cars
Given the way how we work, these will soon be rotting somewhere in open and become junk in a couple of Years.

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Does anyone the names of the foreign banks that lent the money?
Many but all those will be backed by LOU of PNB. That was the modus-operandi if I have understood correctly, take LOU from PNB and on basis of that take a loan from a Foreign bank or foreign branch of Indian Bank in USD to get a lower rate of Interest. They will pay back previous loans from fresh loans, everyone was happy until PNB refused to give fresh LOU.

Last edited by Turbanator : 24th February 2018 at 11:41.
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Old 19th March 2018, 09:29   #70
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

With the political somersaults taking place in our country with clockwork regularity (one party replacing another at the centre), the semblance of democracy remains intact. Just the faces of the scamsters keeps changing - the Mallyas, Choksis, Nirav Modis, D. Rajas, Reddy brothers et al - also with clockwork regularity.

I am, more or less, convinced that Peter Dale Scott - University of California, Berkeley, Professor and Former Canadian Diplomat - is right when he says in his book"The American Deep State," that the profound state / deep state is the state which operates based on legal procedures of decision and enforcement, but which, however, most of the times, tries to avoid the letter and the spirit of the democratic laws, especially through the transfer of competences to non-democratic institutions.

Even if it is difficult to include in a complete list all elements of the American profound state, a few persons must be enumerated: bankers from Wall Street, lawyer offices, oil companies, information services, etc. This difficulty to present with accuracy an occult system is underlined by Peter Dale Scott: “compared to the state, the profound state is not a structure, but a system, as difficult to define, but at the same time as real and strong as a meteorological system”.

His conclusion that this deep state exists regardless of the political party in power, is, I feel, as true in our country as in the USA or other countries. That there is a kind of opaque glass ceiling beyond which is the High Table, where the members of this profound state sit and deliberate - that certain institutions are "too large to be allowed to fail, regardless of the extent & depth of their criminal culpability", as was said at the time of the last Wall Street scam (https://www.globalresearch.ca/wall-s...-history/22291).

While the primates on that "high table" throw ink darts & paper balls at each other while playing with billions & trillions of the public's hard-earned money, the public can continue twiddling our fingers. It is almost a given that none of the major figures in the scamster's list will be touched, while some scapegoats will face some mild music to pacify public opinion, like Rajat Gupta & Kareem Serageldin in the US, and the Mukherjeas in India.

We will watch with bated breath to see if Karti Chidambaram is finally convicted or not and whether any other real skeletons tumble out of the closet.

Last edited by shashanka : 19th March 2018 at 09:33.
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Old 19th March 2018, 09:42   #71
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

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Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
With the political somersaults taking place in our country with clockwork regularity (one party replacing another at the centre), the semblance of democracy remains intact. Just the faces of the scamsters keeps changing - the Mallyas, Choksis, Nirav Modis, D. Rajas, Reddy brothers et al - also with clockwork regularity.


, like Rajat Gupta & Kareem Serageldin in the US, and the Mukherjeas in India.

We will watch with bated breath to see if Karti Chidambaram is finally convicted or not and whether any other real skeletons tumble out of the closet.
Rajat Gupta was no scapegoat - he was clearly guilty!

As for the indian perpetrators, the lack of poor governance, internal collusion and lack of regulation is to blame. For every 1 Karthi, there are 10 waiting in the wings. Am certain Karti's accusations were surfaced from a desperate plea-bargaining deal from the Mukerjeas!
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Old 19th March 2018, 11:17   #72
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

We're a victim of our collective short memories.

When has a big fish ever been held truly accountable in this country? The best we get, if one of them is foolish enough to get caught, is an 'investigation' whose prime motive isn't to prove anything, but to get things out of the public eye long enough and muddy the waters enough that ultimately nothing gets proven, or worse, everything is declared above board.

Nobody notices (or does and ignores) that all investigations only go deep enough to satisfy the partisan base on either side and claim moral victories, but never enough to actually amount to anything. They all know the cycle of power goes round, and nobody wants to get into hot water when it's their turn on the bench.

Meanwhile, media houses (I refuse to call them news orgs) whip everyone into a frenzy, and the gen-pop cheers or boos depending on what 'side' they support, everyone claims the moral high ground while the perpetrators laugh their way to another public sector bank to screw us over, or take a long foreign vacation at our expense.

Wah re Democracy

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 19th March 2018 at 11:18.
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Old 19th March 2018, 11:38   #73
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

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Rajat Gupta was no scapegoat - he was clearly guilty!

As for the indian perpetrators, the lack of poor governance, internal collusion and lack of regulation is to blame. For every 1 Karthi, there are 10 waiting in the wings. Am certain Karti's accusations were surfaced from a desperate plea-bargaining deal from the Mukerjeas!
Yes, Rajat Gupta was clearly guilty - a small fry with dozens of other far bigger sharks waiting in the wings, all having a blast today. And Gupta served barely 2 years! - if that isn't a laugh, I must be having a poor sense of humor.

Yes of course - "poor governance", "internal collusion", "lack of regulation", "plea bargaining" - all these are good & valid explanations! For me unfortunately, having followed the scene for the past 3 decades & more , all this is just more of the "same old, same old"!
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Old 19th March 2018, 12:51   #74
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

You dont need to have political connections to commit frauds in the first place. You can easily buy and establish connections if you can make enough money or promising them money. This happens everywhere in every size. I have seen many of these where someone from poor family goes on to become rich and well connected.

Our financial systems, stock markets and everything have elements of manipulation built into them even legally. Someone exploits it a even more level and creates/borrows money out of nothing.

I have seen in public sector banks, officials having no knowledge of using work flow software. Most of the times juniors come and tell them click here, accept that etc.

Last edited by srishiva : 19th March 2018 at 12:54.
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Old 19th March 2018, 18:19   #75
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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
We're a victim of our collective short memories.


Wah re Democracy
We are also a victim of our - as in the educated elites - unwillingness to be a part of the solution; mere voting is no longer enough, a faster change will need the true patriots among us to stand for election starting from the ward levels.

But that's not going to happen, so we have to resign ourselves to the glacially slow progress of the large majority of Indians to move things ahead.

As to democracy, the problem is that there isn't a better alternative that is visible to what we have today.
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