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Old 18th February 2018, 10:13   #1
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Default The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

Notice the use of the word talented in the title. These guys were clearly that. On the face of it, they had everything going for them:

• Brand: Whichever woman I've spoken to, 'Nirav Modi' was the last word in jewellery design & quality. Chordia had Ferrari, Porsche, Ducati etc. - enough said.

• Business acumen. They are scamsters alright, but you don't get to where they did without being intelligent.

• Access to capital.

• Good retail presence.

• Connections.

If they conducted their business ethically, they could have really made it for themselves & their subsequent generations! But Ashish Chordia had to go take customer monies & not deliver vehicles, while Modi went and scammed money out of banks.

Why?! These guys could have been raking in the moolah without the scams & be leading respectable lives. But now, thanks to their obvious lack of character, they are thieves taking refuge in some international country.

I hope the law catches up with these crooks & brings them back to India. I hope they suffer & lead miserable lives for their thefts. Damn robbers .

Just wondering how they could have really *made it* if they had their moral system in place. That was the only thing lacking in their business.

Last edited by GTO : 18th February 2018 at 10:15.
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Old 18th February 2018, 10:22   #2
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

From what I have read, the two are different. Nirav looks to be in a different league altogether, and his deeds look to be touching more sinister domains, of course with huge political connections. The bank officials involved are mere pawns in the game, and Nirav himself not so big in the whole scheme of things. Waiting for the details to spill out over the course of investigations.
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Old 18th February 2018, 10:34   #3
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Brand: Whichever woman I've spoken to, 'Nirav Modi' was the last word in jewellery design & quality. Chordia had Ferrari, Porsche, Ducati etc. - enough said.

Business acumen. They are scamsters alright, but you don't get to where they did without being intelligent.

Access to capital.

Good retail presence.

Connections.

If they conducted their business ethically, they could have really made it for themselves & their subsequent generations! But Ashish Chordia had to go take customer monies & not deliver vehicles, while Modi went and scammed money out of banks.
Just wondering how they could have really *made it* if they had their moral system in place. That was the only thing lacking in their business.
The Nirav Modi store in Singapore is located at the Marina Bay Sands. We had a conference there, and a 3 day event in the conference halls upstairs costs more than a million Singapore dollars. The rent for the store could be about a million dollars a month. Yet, I have never seen a customer there. Maybe I'm being naive or ignorant, but they don't seem to have many visitors. There are shops by other luxury brands, but none of them are empty, especially at MBS which is a tourist hotspot.

Without footfalls, without an online presence, without distributed experience centers, how does a company claim to be serving this part of Asia? Maybe they had a few wealthy clients who took care of what they lost in sales from "decently rich" folks who could afford $20,000 rings. But does that explain the business model? I read an article today that talked about how doubts were raised by consultants about revenues that were proposed, not realized. Could the entire business model be a pyramid scheme that took money from the public sector banks in India, instead of taking it directly from the common folks? I'm not sure. Perhaps no one is at this point. All I know is that trusting a luxury brand about its finances may not be a really smart thing to do. If it is a public company like Gucci (Kering) then it is good because the accounts are public. For private brands, you never know what's happening behind those diamond encrusted doors.
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Old 18th February 2018, 10:57   #4
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

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Waiting for the details to spill out over the course of investigations.
Going by our history of these scams and scandals, this will probably never happen. Including how the man was able to leave the country in 2018.

It appears to me that whenever there are political connections and there invariably are for scams of this size, the politicians join hands and circle their combined wagons of whatever political colour, against a common adversary - the public. All of them know it could be their turn when they are in power so there is no long term benefit in rocking the boat other than superficially.
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Old 18th February 2018, 12:01   #5
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

Apparently there was a book released last year by Ravi Subramanian by name "IN THE NAME OF GOD", which had a Baking fraud story where in the main fraudster was a powerful jewellery trader by the name Nirav Choksi!!! The 2 main jewellers in the current PNB fraud story are Nirav Modi and Mehul Choksi!!! Is this a coincidence or was the author in the know of things? Strange...
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Old 18th February 2018, 12:38   #6
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

BBC has one story here, looks interesting

http://www.bbc.com/news/stories-42878021
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Old 18th February 2018, 12:59   #7
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
On the face of it, they had everything going for them: Brand, Business acumen, Access to capital ,Good retail presence , Connections.
It is quite possible that they managed to build their brand, develop connections and have good retail presence BECAUSE they are cheaters. They broke the law and got their hands on "free money" which they used for the above.

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If they conducted their business ethically, they could have really made it for themselves & their subsequent generations!
If they had conducted their business ethically, we wouldn't have heard their names at all. They would have been like any other struggling businessmen
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Old 18th February 2018, 13:28   #8
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Last edited by GTO : 19th February 2018 at 12:18.
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Old 18th February 2018, 22:03   #9
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

The sad part of this entire story is, trust in the systems, banking in specific, everything else (political, legal, HR, enforcement, etc.) in general is fading rapidly.

Many commoners are questioning as to why they are squesed to pay up on time every time, and wealthy get away so easy.

It is slwoly, but gradually, imbibing a culture of not caring for systems/law, etc. We tend to see all of this in our daily lives, people not caring about traffic laws, MLA’s sons beating up commoners because what can you do about it, I don’t give a damn about toll plazas since it’s for mere mortals, won’t pursue or will drop cases against particular community because elections are due..

In the era of rapid communication, these things get more and more pronounced on their impact on people. It reaches a larger number of people, and thus a larger number of people are increasingly getting disillusioned about law itself.

Such jokes have become common on social media platforms -
Quote:
Died laughing when...
I saw a 2 Rupees pen still tied with a rope at a PNB Branch.
If enforcement doesn’t come about strong, against all, particularly against the big shots, confidence in the systems/law/governance is hard to return.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
• Brand: Whichever woman I've spoken to, 'Nirav Modi' was the last word in jewellery design & quality. Chordia had Ferrari, Porsche, Ducati etc. - enough said.

• Business acumen. They are scamsters alright, but you don't get to where they did without being intelligent.
With thousands of crores, it’s way easy to build businesses and brands. Having said this, I don’t recollect of Nirav Modi as a jewellery brand before. Maybe I’m just ignorant. Still, if you don’t think I cannot build a brand with many crores of free money, try me.

@ Turbopetrol

Hold your horses there. You never know what’s under the carpet. Nira Radia, recent corruption report from Israel mentioning Ratan Tata, probably there is something. But then again, will be so happy to be proved wrong.

If there is one thing, it is not to assume any business is founded on clean floors. Have your doubts, dosen’t hurt!

Last edited by GTO : 19th February 2018 at 12:19. Reason: Quoted post deleted
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Old 18th February 2018, 22:28   #10
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

The origin of this scam and the NPA crisis is the bank nationalisation done in 1969. Bankers can coolly lend money to any of their cronies since it is not theirs and nothing of it comes back. Audition and vigilance are all a joke.
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Old 19th February 2018, 00:48   #11
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

From the ET article:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/62969557.cms

Quote:
Modi also spent a lot of money on brand creation and promotions. From getting the most premium spots at art exhibitions and fairs to poaching people from the luxury trade by offering double and triple the salaries, Nirav always had it his way. He sent out expensive gifts like imported wines, chocolates, exotic flowers to the media and other influencers. He tied up with topmost art galleries to organise fancy events for business promotion.
That's exactly what I meant. When you have access to 'free money', you need not worry about RoI at all. Spend this money at the right places and any half-talented jewellery designer can make it big.
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Old 19th February 2018, 09:17   #12
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

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The origin of this scam and the NPA crisis is the bank nationalisation done in 1969. Bankers can coolly lend money to any of their cronies since it is not theirs and nothing of it comes back. Audition and vigilance are all a joke.
The funny thing about Bank nationalisation is that every political party except the communists never tire of criticising this action and demonising Indira Gandhi for having done it. But if it was a bad move, no other party has reversed the move inspite of having been in power for many years starting since 1977. Having so much power at their beck and call suits all of them equally; and none can do without that power, having tasted it. One major reason why Air India is not being disinvested is because all politicians and their bureaucrat friends will then have to give up a huge perquisite of being able to travel cheaply with family and friends on the highest class of privileged frequent flyer. For PSU banks, the power of patronage conferred on politicians is immense compared to Air India.

Audit and vigilance are a joke everywhere in India, and I would not blame bank nationalisation for this. These are jokes wherever the government has a finger in the pie, from banks to the airlines, to PSUs, to PWDs and more. That bankers do this is because like other government departments, there isn't the accountability there is in the private sector where also the CEOs that do not own companies are a lot more honest. It isn't the ownership or lack thereof that is driving the behaviour, it is the lack of accountability everywhere.
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Old 19th February 2018, 09:50   #13
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

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That's exactly what I meant. When you have access to 'free money', you need not worry about RoI at all. Spend this money at the right places and any half-talented jewellery designer can make it big.
How can a honest jeweler who can't afford to splurge on marketing can compete with these 'helicopter money' folks?

It is a free market only when these kinda unfair situations are dealt with.
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Old 19th February 2018, 09:55   #14
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

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Notice the use of the word talented in the title. These guys were clearly that.. ..
I would probably also use the word 'connected'. Most such transactions can be pulled off only with connections to bigger names. Whether the bigger names themselves proactively influence these transactions or know of it is not something any of us can really know.

I read somewhere that Nirav Modi is distantly related to the Ambanis. Now, the Ambanis may not be influencing anyone, but anyone dealing with Nirav Modi could be already working with a clouded judgement that here is a relative of one of the top businessmen in the country (or even the world?)

General business transactions with such business houses are also done by word of mouth. Take the case of the DSK group; though it would probably not fall in the same category, they still took away a lot of investor money. The difference is they are still here to face the consequences.

Last edited by GTO : 19th February 2018 at 12:19. Reason: Quoted post deleted
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Old 19th February 2018, 10:01   #15
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Default Re: The talented scamsters: Nirav Modi, Ashish Chordia & others

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If they had conducted their business ethically, we wouldn't have heard their names at all. They would have been like any other struggling businessmen
Is that a fair generalisation? How about Airtel, Reliance, to quote some names that are now established, or, Flipkart, as one that is getting there? Unless by ethics you are referring to things like bribes which no one in India is innocent of, and ethically there is no difference between bribing the cop on the street to the minister in his office.

And to the title of the thread, I agree that it takes a very talented scamster - it does not say that he was more than half decent in jewellery design. It takes talent, and more - the Jews call it chutzpah - and the Americans would call it giant....; being what are batted around in cricket or tennis. Not everyone with mere access to money can pull it off. If for instance I had that access, I would just take the money and disappear to an island somewhere, downing margaritas for the rest of my life. If I wasn't too scared of the consequences!

And people like Lalit Modi are also extremely talented. As in his own way, is Mallya.

Last edited by Sawyer : 19th February 2018 at 10:04.
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