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Old 10th March 2018, 19:09   #1
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Dilemma - Shifting career gears. When to move on?

Hello Everyone,

I searched the forum on this topic - Job change. Surprisingly, I could not find much information / point of views except for one useful post from Biju.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post2089485

So the background behind my question -

I work as a Calibration Specialist at a big German company in Germany. Recently I got an offer with another big German OEM who specialize in niche Cars and are closely involved in Motorsport / F1 scene. My current job involves testing and calibration of some premium cars for a German OEM, but this new one is in a different league altogether (Sports Cars).

I did a quick SWOT analysis for this situation and can summarize it as follows-

1. Career progression - definitely yes in terms of the job, although I will have more or less a similar Designation.
2. Salary - will remain more or less the same, as my current job also offers me a very competitive salary. The new job gives me more perks like Brand new high-end cars on lease or for ownership with employee benefits, slightly more Bonus (50% approx based on company performance).
3. Tasks - 30% similar tasks but on Sports cars. 30% new tasks and rest Managerial role with more responsibility.
4. Location - doesn't change much. Have to travel approx. 10 kms more, which is not a problem here.
5. Brand value on CV - newer role is in the Premium car segment. The existing role is 1 step below it.
6. Passion - for an automotive enthusiast, the new role could be categorized as one of the Dream Jobs. Mention of the company name among other enthusiasts would raise eyebrows for sure.
7. Work pressure - from an 8-hour schedule per day, this would change to unpredictable hours (although within the legal limit of 10 hours per day). The new role is more dynamic and fast-paced (Motorsports connection).
8. Travel - would involve a fair bit of traveling for test trips, sometimes very spontaneously. I do travel for the current role as well, but it is more planned and predictive.
9. Colleagues and work environment - although I cannot guess about my future colleagues, this point has a fair bit of uncertainty attached to it. I don't expect it to be 'greener' on the other side. Work environment and facilities are both similar, as these are governed by the law in Germany. The number of holidays, parental leave, etc. all will be same.
10. Canteen - the new place I'm told has an awesome canteen, the current one sucks big time.
11. Stability and career progression - the current role is stable and has chances of a good career progression, also an opportunity to move back to India with the company in future. The new one is quite uncertain there. But that doesn't worry me, one who doesn't take "calculated" risks, doesn't grow fast.
12. Family - bachelor now, but getting married this year.

But one thing seriously irks me. Although I was not a rookie in the Automotive Industry, my current company gave me an opportunity to start my career here in Germany. They placed trust in me and honed me. Now when I get a better role, it might seem like I used them as a stepping stone for my career move. This makes me feel a bit sad. I know the saying "Love your job and not the company, because you never know when the company stops loving you" Also reminds me of Dhabhar Sir's preachings "Always do what you love, don't love what you do"

So my question to the members here, what would you if you were in my situation? What are the other factors you consider before changing a job / company? When do you think is the right time to "shift gears" in your CAReer?

Thanks.

Spike

Last edited by SPIKE ARRESTOR : 10th March 2018 at 19:28.
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Old 10th March 2018, 19:59   #2
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re: Dilemma - Shifting career gears. When to move on?

^^^
You are no longer the sole decision maker! (Takes some getting used to, I know). Discuss with your fiance!

And if you shift, kiss your India holiday goodbye.

Best of luck in whatever path you choose.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 10th March 2018, 20:52   #3
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re: Dilemma - Shifting career gears. When to move on?

Hi spike.

Knowing you personally. Hence.

I would shift. But i will always stay in touch with my current boss and colleagues and give them a high level of importance in my heart. They might move jobs too, and its those relationships you will carry with you.

Take them with you wherever you go.

All the best.
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Old 10th March 2018, 21:00   #4
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re: Dilemma - Shifting career gears. When to move on?

Shifting gears is a correct analogy....if you want to move faster to reach end goals. It would, therefore, be important to fix your goals in life. Not too far in the future, but say after 10 years.
You are planning to get married and maybe within 10 years you may have children. Your priorities and goals in life could and will change. Along with loving what you do, it would be important to provide your family with a quality of life, that they are entitled to and which i am sure you would want them to have. Job security, family centric companies, flexible working hours, enough time for family, sharing of children's responsibilities, making a home and so on would also be important factors that need to be considered.

Secondly, if career progression is important to you (i am sure it is) then you may like to consider that along with being effective in discharging your responsibilities; the company management also prefers employees who are dependable. Dependability (realisation by the company) is a function of time and hence if you switch jobs often, this criteria would always be low in your overall assessment-resulting in a lower competitive advantage.

Lastly, decisions to change job would have to be based on value - i do not get the sense that the new job is offering any outstanding value.
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Old 10th March 2018, 21:56   #5
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re: Dilemma - Shifting career gears. When to move on?

If you have a mentor who belongs to your industry or think your manager/anyone above in your hierarchy has the maturity to handle such a conversation, it's probably a good idea to have an honest chat (you'll need to have one anyway when you quit).

It'll both get you another perspective from someone who knows that business and environment, and you'll be able to leave (if you choose to) with your current organisation knowing you made a considered choice and not a mercenary one. Those contacts and the impression you leave behind may come in handy someday.

As to long-term, I was always taught it's better to move to a parallel rung on a taller ladder (even a step lower if the situation demands it), than quickly climb up a short one to the ceiling and have nowhere to go from there.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 10th March 2018 at 21:58.
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Old 10th March 2018, 22:59   #6
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re: Dilemma - Shifting career gears. When to move on?

Think long-term. You have an established work relationship & ' the current role is stable and has chances of a good career progression'.
All employee complain of canteen, everywhere.
HR professional here can guide you of failed incidents. A bird in hand is always better, and grass is always greener on the other side.

If you really want to give in to the itch, start with a small part-time gig at the new facility, understand the new environment, then commit.
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Old 11th March 2018, 14:56   #7
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re: Dilemma - Shifting career gears. When to move on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
^^^
You are no longer the sole decision maker! (Takes some getting used to, I know). Discuss with your fiance!
Thanks, you are right, a final decision will be taken only after approval from the home ministry. I hope she does not see this thread. The very fact that I mentioned family as the last point would be enough.

Quote:
And if you shift, kiss your India holiday goodbye.
Not really. My quota of 30 days annual leave is safe. It's not like India, where the "boss decides" when you should sneeze. If one is entitled to holidays according to law, no employer can override it. If I want to take holidays, I can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post

I would shift. But i will always stay in touch with my current boss and colleagues and give them a high level of importance in my heart. They might move jobs too, and its those relationships you will carry with you.

Take them with you wherever you go.

All the best.
Thanks Redliner, you have a very valid point there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by earthian View Post
Job security, family centric companies, flexible working hours, enough time for family, sharing of children's responsibilities, making a home and so on would also be important factors that need to be considered.
You are right, for my future, I need to weigh these perspectives as well. Right now I'm giving more weightage to career growth, this needs to be more balanced in future.

Quote:
the company management also prefers employees who are dependable. Dependability (realisation by the company) is a function of time and hence if you switch jobs often, this criteria would always be low in your overall assessment-resulting in a lower competitive advantage.
True, people here don't shift jobs often. Once they get into a good company, in most cases they stay there for a long time. I'm with my current employer since 3 years.

Quote:
Lastly, decisions to change job would have to be based on value - i do not get the sense that the new job is offering any outstanding value.
Well, you are right to an extent. There is no outstanding value, but it is definitely a step forward. 8 years in the industry, I realized that money alone cannot make you happy. One spends 8 hours per day at the workplace, so one should like it. There is a saying here in Germany, choose your house very carefully (you spend around 8 hours there), the bed where you sleep (8 hours) and where you work (8 hours) because all these help you perceive your quality of life. Also, I'm not someone who would change a job just for monetary benefits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rationalist View Post
One reply after reading your post - MOVE!
All the best.
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
If you have a mentor who belongs to your industry or think your manager/anyone above in your hierarchy has the maturity to handle such a conversation, it's probably a good idea to have an honest chat (you'll need to have one anyway when you quit).
Good point. However, I must admit, there are limits here to what all things you can discuss with a colleague or mentor, professional stuff yes, other stuffs - one needs to be cautious. For example, talking about salary and other benefits is a taboo.

Quote:
As to long-term, I was always taught it's better to move to a parallel rung on a taller ladder (even a step lower if the situation demands it), than quickly climb up a short one to the ceiling and have nowhere to go from there.
I'm sorry if I sounded like, I'm trying to take shortcuts towards my goal. No I've not seen any carrots. I realize that I need to take the next step in my career to reach my goal (both long and short-term) in the coming years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz3645 View Post
If you really want to give in to the itch, start with a small part-time gig at the new facility, understand the new environment, then commit.
This is not possible. I cannot work for two employers at the same time IF they are in the same industry.

Spike
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Old 11th March 2018, 15:28   #8
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re: Dilemma - Shifting career gears. When to move on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post

Not really. My quota of 30 days annual leave is safe. It's not like India, where the "boss decides" when you should sneeze. If one is entitled to holidays according to law, no employer can override it. If I want to take holidays, I can.
You might want to check with your new employer if there is any 6 month probation period! If yes, then it might be hard for you to negotiate a leave grant for more than 2 weeks during your probation.

Given your circumstances, I would make the move to the new opportunity.
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Old 12th March 2018, 05:18   #9
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re: Dilemma - Shifting career gears. When to move on?

Spike, your current dilemma is exactly what i went through about a month and a half ago. Along with a good opportunity with greater exposure, i also had the option of a pretty good hike staring down at me. On the other hand, the job in hand offered me a lot in terms of flexibility, as well as trust (which i painstakingly built over the years). They gave me the opportunity in a new country, and i also learnt a lot over the course of my time with them.

To cut short the suspense, i moved to the new job. So, why did i move?
Quite simply, when i looked back at my life in a few years, i realised i shouldn't regret my decision to not take the chance when it came my way. That 'What if?' feeling can haunt you. Sometimes in life you got to take risks, which resonates in both our scenarios - moving to a new country and starting afresh.

Loyalty is good, but it should be towards the people you worked with, not necessarily the company. Remember, all the good memories and freedom/flexibility you enjoy currently with the company are tied in some way to the people you work with, as well as the existing policies. All it takes is one re-org or some change in policy and the environment completely changes. I have seen that happen, more than once.

As others have said here, keep your professional bridges intact, whatever be your decision. In a professional market you would surely run into the same people in a different place. It is a small world out there. Trust me.

If the new role offers chance of greater exposure, as well as learning, then you know my answer.

I would love to expand further, but would like to keep professional stuff of mine off the public forum. If you want to chat, PM me. Let's have an offline discussion.
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Old 12th March 2018, 05:28   #10
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re: Dilemma - Shifting career gears. When to move on?

Move on and never burn any bridges, do not have any regrets, you never know what is awaiting you unless you take the step to move.

Opportunity never knocks twice, grab it while you can, but still leave the old place nicely, so that you have a fall back plan. Keep professional relationships intact.

This is coming from someone who resonates with Benny's post above, having dropped everything associated with a well settled, well paid life in India and starting a fresh new life in Sydney, building up from scratch. I wouldn't have reached where I am now, had I not taken the risks I took in the last few years.

All the best!
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Old 12th March 2018, 06:56   #11
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re: Dilemma - Shifting career gears. When to move on?

Spike,

You've listed 11 factors but some seem to be overlapping so this is what I summarised:

(+) Same salary, better perks, better job profile, more responsibility, doing what you love, better food options ().
(-) Longer hours, more travel, lose out the "return to India" option

The way I see it, since you are only just getting hitched now, there is some time before you start a family etc. That's when the negatives you have listed REALLY start assuming significance. So my advice is go for the new job!
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Old 12th March 2018, 12:46   #12
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Re: Dilemma - Shifting career gears. When to move on?

Hey, I don't know anything about the Automotive industry or the job scene in Germany. I do know a bit about working for big American/Indian corporations.

All I can say is that these days, a sense of loyalty is worth nothing. Let me clarify- be loyal to good people/colleagues/bosses personally by all means, but don't worry about being loyal to a company/brand. When the big boys, several levels above your boss, need to cut jobs to show a few good quarters or to save expenses before the division/company is spun off and sold to another entity, they'll do it without a second thought. I've been privy to the decision making process and trust me, they don't know you, they don't care, most of these 'key execs' don't even have a clue about the industry they invest in, and even if your immediate manager is a good sort, there will be nothing they can do about it.

So, if a job shift has more positives going for it, just go for it. You can always maintain good ties with your former colleagues and managers. In fact, some of my ties to former colleagues have strengthened since we no longer work together and several of them are now good friends.

Not many colleagues or managers are that immature to take an employee's leaving the company for better prospects personally. If they are, then you're better off without them anyway!

Last edited by am1m : 12th March 2018 at 12:48.
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Old 12th March 2018, 12:57   #13
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Re: Dilemma - Shifting career gears. When to move on?

Hi Spikeee, not gonna make it long. But it is clear cut case of moving on to the next step. You have spent reasonable time in the current company and you don't owe them anything. It is just business / professional relationship and NOT personal. You are young and this is the right time to get into such roles. Go for it and the very best of wishes!
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Old 12th March 2018, 14:06   #14
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Re: Dilemma - Shifting career gears. When to move on?

No easy answers. Each person and each situation and each point in time is unique.

Let me offer a different line. It depends on what your end goals are over a 15 to 30 year period. Maybe at this point you don't know - is it to grow up the technical individual contributor route or is it to grow up the management leadership route and end up in the CXO suite. If it is the former then maybe a richer experience could help - not a surety but a possibility. If the latter then stick and dig one deep well. You strike oil when we dig one deep well and not when we dig several shallow wells. Few who reach the CXO suite do so by hopping jobs. Right now you have some equity and credibility in your company. At the new place the equity-credibility gauge gets re-set to zero and you work up again to prove yourself.

Let us know what you decide and best of luck.
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Old 12th March 2018, 14:16   #15
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Re: Dilemma - Shifting career gears. When to move on?

Hi Spike

I have had the good fortune of working with a multitude of professionals during my career and have come across very many of them who have had similar situations. What i tell them is this

1. People leave jobs only for 2 things - Type of Work and Type of Supervisor. Use this guiding principle
2. Designations are passee - In one of my hops, i moved from being a VP to a Manager and it had no bearing on progression.
3. Salary - Look at gross rather than take home which will include direct and indirect (perks)
4. As you move up the ladder - managerial responsibilities are a must if you want to shape your career from Individual Contributor to a team manager
5. Locations, canteens are smaller aspects which have no bearing on a career defining decision
6. As you spend more years in a single firm, complacency sets in plus the comfort factor. If you are of an ambitious nature, this will be detrimental. Change is always tough and one needs to manage. Remember your life is changing from being a bachelor to a married man. If you can accept that change, you definitely can accept a career change
7. All firms are in the business of increasing stakeholder value. If the economy slips in Germany, firms tend to weed out some of its high paid staff, non value added staff or mediocre staff. They do not work with the principles of loyalty. As long as you have added value to the current firm, you dont owe them anything. Firms understand that, especially European and American firms do. That should not be a deciding factor
8. You are probably in the first stage of your career and potentially young enough to take risks and if they fail you have time to rebound. Keep that as another yardstick to measure

At the sound of being repetitive, keep the following in mind

1. Does it check the boxes of better work, better pay, more learning, growth. If so, then its a good thing to consider.

Good luck and Godspeed
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