[AMG Power]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

You can invest but only through some kind of Stockbroking House and then also, the predominant method used would be Mutual Funds as per what I know.

One can invest upto $250,000 per annum in overseas stocks and shares through the Liberalised Remittance Scheme. This needs to be through a brokerage house but it's upto the individual to decide whether its shares, mutual funds or debt instruments.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I am decidedly NOT one of those people who need to have ..“public approbation” to feel that I have some value in life.

Well said.

This could otherwise turn out to be the BIGGEST liability one could have. You need to be happy doing anything OR nothing that you want to do regardless of what anyone else may or may not think.



On another note I've noticed a lot of folks omit to factor this point while making financial calculations:

1 kid = 5 crores (more or less depending on one's lifestyle)
2 = 10 crores and so on

It's usually by emotions in this area and for some folks the financial issues that arise are because of financial calculation omissions in this area.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

On another note I've noticed a lot of folks omit to factor this point while making financial calculations:

1 kid = 5 crores (more or less depending on one's lifestyle)
2 = 10 crores and so on

It's usually by emotions in this area and for some folks the financial issues that arise are because of financial calculation omissions in this area.

Can you please elaborate on this? Is this 5 crore per child the corpus required to fulfill duties towards them like education, marriage etc., or is it the money that we need to pass on to them for their life?

[jkrishnakj]

Oh Gosh ! When i see some of the numbers here, i really feel that i dont have anything despite being in the corporate world for 2+ decades. All i have is some real estate which i guess isnt something that can be called a worthwhile retirement plan. Looks Like i need to reset and start over !.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by jkrishnakj

Oh Gosh ! When i see some of the numbers here, i really feel that i dont have anything despite being in the corporate world for 2+ decades.

Haha, same here! But I think a lot of the investment planning schemes/calculators deliberately inflate the corpus so that you'll be motivated to start investing in them.

Some of the figures are crazy, and pretty sure none of the retired people I see have that kind of cash tucked away! Yet they seem to be doing ok.

I guess each person needs to figure out what works for them. What sort of life you want to live post-retirement and figure it out based on that.

Originally Posted by graaja

Is this 5 crore per child...

Well I guess the politically incorrect premise (but a valid option/opinion none the less) would be that if I'm a salaried ordinary joe and still want to retire early...don't have kids!

[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by am1m

Some of the figures are crazy, and pretty sure none of the retired people I see have that kind of cash tucked away! Yet they seem to be doing ok.

I know few people who are $ millionaires (or close to) and most of them looks like average working class people. Their source of income are onsite earning, equity investment, employer stock options. Some have earned from real estate investment and inheritance wealth as well.

[Tgo]

I am nowhere near retirement age nor do I have a next generation yet. I know the importance of preparing early for retirement but I'll begin when I'm in my 40s. There are some working class investments which will be left untouched till then.

I want to put in my two cents which do not relate to investments, percentages, thumb rules, 'x' amount of corpus and assets.

My dad was in a government job and my mother was self employed. I, from the standpoint of the next generation, am extremely proud of my brother and myself, for having begun earning our own bread and butter, soon out of college. I am even more proud of the fact that my parents could thus, retire 5 years earlier (in my dad's case) and shed a lot of work load (in my mom's case) to have enough time for themselves, family, friends, and most importantly - their hobbies.

Cutting 5 years off from the retirement age might sound minuscule but, they have travelled together a good deal more in the last 2 years compared to when they had their own professional commitments, that it urges me to have similar life goals (greedily, now itself). My dad loves the outdoors and my mother is a creative mind. Mix the both and you have a lot of travels and pictures with lovely captions. My dad built his dream home on a farm land as his first project after retirement and my mom took to sketching and poetry. These days they come across more like friends than parents.

Its important for the next generation to be on the same page before planning your retirement, ... for smooth execution.

As for what I want to do when I retire - Set-up a garage shop for kids who want to have access to free tools to work on their toys / projects / bicycles / skates etc. Open to anyone who wants to work on their stuff themselves. Trying to inculcate 'repair rather than replace' philosophy back into the minds of the next gen.

[srsrini]

Originally Posted by am1m

Haha, same here! But I think a lot of the investment planning schemes/calculators deliberately inflate the corpus so that you'll be motivated to start investing in them.

Some of the figures are crazy, and pretty sure none of the retired people I see have that kind of cash tucked away! Yet they seem to be doing ok.

I guess each person needs to figure out what works for them. What sort of life you want to live post-retirement and figure it out based on that.

...

I definitely agree with the last quoted line. People need to figure out what 'early retirement' means for them, and the corpus that they require.



I can't speak for all, or any of, the retirement calculators out there. But the numbers look scary because it is not easy for us to work out geometric progression over long terms. Let us say that a 30 year old is looking at 'early retirement' in 20 years. First, her current estimate of living expenses would quadruple in this time if we assume 7% inflation is assumed. Then she would need to factor in 40 or so years of passive income from the corpus to fund the expenses. (And no, it is quite reckless to assume that one would only live till 75.)



So if this person thinks that she spends 6 lac per year now, she would be spending (2^6=64) *almost 4 crore* per year when she is 90. This is whee the numbers become scary.



I can see that I am doing this.. but this point needs to be made. If you are serious about early retirement, or even regular retirement, get to excel, or a financial calculator, and do some calculations. Hand waving and rules of thumb would not help you.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

I know few people who are $ millionaires (or close to) and most of them looks like average working class people

I'm sure that's the case, and obviously it's better to have more money than less when it comes to retirement (or anything else ). But the point I was making was there are also many people who get by quite well and live with dignity without having xyz crores in the bank. It's up to each person, the lifestyle and life choices they make.

Originally Posted by srsrini

So if this person thinks that she spends 6 lac per year now, she would be spending (2^6=64) *almost 4 crore* per year when she is 90. This is whee the numbers become scary.

That's the thing, will you be spending the same way you will while you are working?

I for one know I won't be. For me 'retirement' (and when I say retirement it does not mean I won't be working anymore - fortunately my field has enough freelancing opportunities) will probably mean I don't need to come in to an office anymore. I don't need to live in Bangalore anymore. That will mean I need to stop spending on the things that I do now and that's a trade off I'm more than willing to make.

But certainly, whatever the lifestyle, there certainly has to be good planning and a buffer. And certainly numbers, not optimistic guesstimates.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by am1m

Well I guess the politically incorrect premise (but a valid option/opinion none the less) would be that if I'm a salaried ordinary joe and still want to retire early...don't have kids!

Why do you say Politically Incorrect?
It is a perfectly valid, responsible choice to choose the “child-free” life, in this heavily over populated world.

And if you consider the costs associated with having off-spring, food, clothes, education, extra curricular activities etc, not to mention the accompanying emotional traumas, worries and whatnot in this wicked, unsavoury and unsafe world that we live in, such a choice is validated even more clearly.

But we digress so I will end by saying I am one of those “salaried ordinary joe’s”. I want to retire early and fearlessly, with a decent corpus and zero commitments.
I want to enjoy life and enjoy what I have earned through my hard work.

Hence, I have chosen the child free life long ago at the time of marriage itself.

And I dont have ANY regrets whatsoever. And I really DONT CARE, if anyone thinks of me as being politically incorrect and/ or reprehensible in any sense for having aired this view openly.

[rovingeye]

Two things that bother me with all retirement calculations-
1. The assumption that debt will continue to offer 8-10% returns for 30 years
2. Inflation will remain at 4-6% range

Taking the USA as example, real, inflation adjusted returns are so meagre, it would be a shock to us citizens of a developing nation. Take a look here - https://www.treasury.gov/resource-ce...data=realyield

My point is, will the numbers which most of our retirement calculations are based upon remain in the same range? What if there are phases of stagflation and/or hyperinflation that throw our numbers off? 10 years back the $ used to get 45 INR. Look where we are today.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by rovingeye

Two things that bother me with all retirement calculations-
1. The assumption that debt will continue to offer 8-10% returns for 30 years
2. Inflation will remain at 4-6% range

Taking the USA as example, real, inflation adjusted returns are so meagre, it would be a shock to us citizens of a developing nation. Take a look here - https://www.treasury.gov/resource-ce...data=realyield

My point is, will the numbers which most of our retirement calculations are based upon remain in the same range? What if there are phases of stagflation and/or hyperinflation that throw our numbers off? 10 years back the $ used to get 45 INR. Look where we are today.

I agree. The greatest uncertainty revolves around the Inflation Rates year on year and the Interest based earnings, year on year.

So what is the answer? One has to plan with some basis and some assumptions.

Can’t really leave it all to chance, right?

[AMG Power]

Originally Posted by graaja

Is this 5 crore per child the corpus required to fulfill duties towards them like education, marriage etc., ...

It's the corpus variable as per individual standards. If a child is born this year it could be more given that the marriage of a kid 25-27 years from now factored for inflation would be substantial.

[Simhi]

Originally Posted by rovingeye

The assumption that debt will continue to offer 8-10% returns for 30 years

That's a valid point. I remember the discussion I had with one consultant who was trying to sell LIC annuity plans and he mentioned to lock up some amount @8% as in future similar schemes will not fetch even 8%.

I am yet to take any action but analyzed SBI historical interest rate data and noticed that during 1993 to 1996, SBI offered interest rate of up to 12% for FD with period of 1 to 2 years. However, post 2001, SBI never gave interest rate of even 10%. The overall trend of interest rates are downward and as Indian economy grows and matures, the interest rate are likely to go further down.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

So what is the answer? One has to plan with some basis and some assumptions.

I totally agree.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by jkrishnakj

Oh Gosh ! When i see some of the numbers here, i really feel that i dont have anything despite being in the corporate world for 2+ decades. All i have is some real estate which i guess isnt something that can be called a worthwhile retirement plan. Looks Like i need to reset and start over !.

Same problem Sir.
I too, have been a journeyman in this corporate game for close to 3 decades.
All these numbers and targets are mind boggling.
And most of us ‘journeymen/ salaried working class executive types”, who are rapidly rising or overhauling the 50 mark, seem to have reached nowhere at all, in this particular cross country race.
Time and Tide Wait for No Man and this fact is causing deep angst and worry even for those of us who perhaps have less responsibilities than others (i.e: Children).
The cost of living, medical costs, savings targets, business targets, compound themselves further to create further stress and chaos.
However, since God helps only those who help themselves, people like us better start planning and actioning something, else we’ll be doomed.

[pgupta]

Originally Posted by Simhi

That's a valid point. I remember the discussion I had with one consultant who was trying to sell LIC annuity plans and he mentioned to lock up some amount @8% as in future similar schemes will not fetch even 8%.

Do you think locking some money in Annuity schemes which typically gives 5-6 % return is a good idea ? I am currently been approached by Annuity sellers saying that the interest rates will go further down and now might be a good time to lock this forever.