[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by bigron

One thing that I have observed over the years is the way adult gay men conduct themselves here in India compared to overseas.
Now I could never tell the sexual orientation of an adult gay female no matter where I travel, India or overseas. They are same all over.
.

Not sure where you travel overseas, but there is no mistake here:

https://youtu.be/fOglesN1e1Q

Interestingly enough, many cities have these sort of parades. They're a hoot!!

Jeroen

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Ford5

...if all the children of god...

Just curious, is your opinion (and of course, everyone has a right to an opinion) because of some religious teachings? No offense meant, just trying to figure out the origins of the opinion, that's all.

Originally Posted by Hayek

I must admit that I have changed in the last 20 years, and this exposure helped when we learnt that one of our classmates was happily married to another man and settled in the UK.

Ultimately, familiarity is what does the most to diminish prejudice. Not just with homosexuality, but in the case of any sub-group that is different from one's own group, and that one is not familiar with, one will tend to subscribe to the stereotypical/parental/peer/respected elders' views of that group. In our minds we'll have several reasons and justifications that seem logical, but ultimately it's fundamentally what we've been told is considered 'normal' or 'right' according to the views of an authority figure in our lives. In most cases, such views are motivated by concerns other than logic. It's only when you're thrown into daily contact with such a sub-group, usually for the first time at school, college, or work, that one begins to see that they're as normal (or as abnormal ) as anyone else. And that really brings about a change in perception. Rarely do stereotypes survive real, normal (there's that word again!) interaction with people from that sub-group. And this could be any sub-group- religious, state, linguistic, caste, sexual orientation and sadly, in our gender-segregated nation, even with respect to the opposite gender!

Originally Posted by highonwheelz

Slavery when abolished for the first time, was only done by a few countries. Women's suffrage was given only by a few countries in the beginning.

Excellent points!

[whitewing]

I welcome the move for the simple reason, what happens between consenting adults is no business of a government.


I have not had any one in my circle with this leaning, it could be that some are, but have not come out due to the societal pressures.
Would my attitude change if I happened to know some one who had other sexual preferences? I do not know, but for my own self, I hope not.

Originally Posted by Ford5

Picture this, if all the children of god stopped being normal, then humanity would end because no procreation will take place with the argument of growing up and being inclusive.

I do hope and assume that by normal you mean commonplace.
Just to bounce a thought, is a sadhu/catholic priest abnormal?
Many vegetarians find the sight and smell of non-vegetarian food abhorrent, in such a case who is not normal? a veggie or a non-veggie?

[400notout]

Originally Posted by am1m

Ultimately, familiarity is what does the most to diminish prejudice. Not just with homosexuality, but in the case of any sub-group that is different from one's own group, and that one is not familiar with, one will tend to subscribe to the stereotypical/parental/peer/respected elders' views of that group.

Very well put. Though I'm not personally familiar with anyone openly gay, I do understand homosexuality is only natural. After all Freddie Mercury is one of my god's .

But coming to the point you put forth, mostly people fear what they do not understand or find alien. A bit of assimilation and the tension eases out real quick.

Unfortunately people cling on to "values" too much. They cannot fathom that their family, parents or society can have and teach wrong values. Time to time it should be retrospected and updated.

[samarth.bhatia]

It's really good to see this thread, and to see it open to the forum members for discussion.

Like others, I too grew up in the 90's India and was exposed to different aspects that showed how homophobic the Indian society was. Be it the characters in the movies (Raja Hindustani - the guy in the white clothes, etc.) or the comedy shows, or even the talks with friends & family, it was thought that being gay is ridiculous.

I am so glad being exposed to that ridicule did not determine my evolution on the subject. I was massively disappointed when the courts went back on decriminalising this section in the past. But I am happy to see sense prevail.

Some of the opinions expressed in this thread may shock those of us who have evolved over the years. But bear in mind that this evolution did not happen because someone forced it upon us. It had to happen through awareness. Let us spread the light as much as we can. But let us not RIDICULE those of us who haven't seen it yet. Discuss with them, share your thoughts with them. Allow them to share theirs too.

As with most other social changes, this will happen too. Just keep spreading the light!

Sam

[FrozeninTime]

Off topic
One thing I noticed is that in US, 12 months( down from lifetime ban ) abstinence is mandatory for blood donation by LGBTQ people. Can anyone shed some light on it?

I find it strange that no LGBTQ rights activist are fighting this absurd rule of blood donation in US

[indian21r]

Really happy to hear this news. Supreme Court seems to make a few good calls once in a while.

As long as 2 people or a group of people are consenting what they do in private is no one else business. It is time we teach our kids that love and acceptance transcends everything right from gender to caste to religion. This is but the first step to make everyone integrate in the society.

I remember in 2009 when I was in Chennai, there was a pride Parade going on Marina Beach. I walked with the crowd and could feel how much pain they were all in while shouting for the article 377 to be removed.

Somehow over the past few years, I have been feeling we Indians are hypocrites. We claim to be tolerant but I see that is rarely the case.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by blacksport

What, my friend, you miss is perspective...
..It is good that gay people could live with the companions they like to live with. but...
...(dangerous territory) i find gay people having children very hard to digest. ...BUT, the well being of the child would, I guess, be better in a man-woman family.
...Moreover, I think it is one's right to discriminate against anyone for whatever reason they deem fit, even if that is borne out of ignorance. Hence the need of support from govt.

Originally Posted by Ford5

Wonder why every question is assumed as a homophobic stance by LGBT folks. If a child of a gay couple naturally likes another gender as is the natural order, the gay parents are bound to massively disappointed and may sabotage it....Picture this, if all the children of god stopped being normal, then humanity would end because no procreation will take place with the argument of growing up and being inclusive.

Brothers & Sisters of Team BHP, my sincere thanks to blacksport and Ford5 for having the courage to express the views of the silent majority who is at risk of getting drowned out in the chorus of our pro-LGBT views. I may not agree with their views but whole heartedly support their right to express it. They are in fact expressing the views and thoughts on most minds. But the others don't speak.

Dear Members, what we need is tolerance all around. Not just acceptance and tolerance for LGBT individuals but also for those - the silent majority in fact - who are yet to come to terms with leaving homophobia behind. Let us show compassion and understanding to those brothers and sisters who express more traditional views and allow them to express their angst and discomfort and not boo them down [as so easily happens on social media & T-BHP]. By disparaging traditional views we only delay the gradual acceptance by another generation.

My apologies if I am being too preachy but I see this high handed approach on social media way too often. So to all the traditionalists out there please feel free to express your concerns, your questions and your angst. It is better that they be addressed than quashed.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Brot---snip----d.

No. This does not qualify as another side of the argument. Once it's in public domain, it's just plain discrimination now. Bringing traditionalism into this argument is very weird, especially when one looks at the traditional sculptures in khajurao.
However, considering that homophobia is still more acceptable than homosexuality in our society, I'm glad for the anonymity of the internet and social media.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by mayankk

No. This does not qualify as another side of the argument. Once it's in public domain, it's just plain discrimination now. Bringing traditionalism into this argument is very weird, especially when one looks at the traditional sculptures in khajurao.
However, considering that homophobia is still more acceptable than homosexuality in our society, I'm glad for the anonymity of the internet and social media.

You may wish to read my post more carefully and also my earlier posts on this thread. I am not putting forth any justification. I am requesting for the pro-LGBT community, which includes me, to be more tolerant towards those who need time to make the transition in their views - a transition which will take years. Booing them down on social media and posting sharp rebukes will not help. People listen when we embrace them not when we shoo them down. My views are very clearly put on this thread and I do not wish to get into an anonymous argument. Please do not pick up one word in my post, quote it in the wrong context and start off.

[rajivr1612]

Originally Posted by am1m

Ultimately, familiarity is what does the most to diminish prejudice.

You are correct. Familiarity with this group will help us get rid of the prejudice. And for that to happen we need positive experiences. I have had negligible interactions with gays (if I could call them that) , only two to be precise. And both of them were public toilet of CMBT, Chennai. I was waiting for my bus to Bangalore to start, thought of taking a leak before I board. I was peeing when a person came to the adjacent urinal and started peeking at my business, then he said " I saw" with a creepy smile . Without finishing, I quickly zipped and ran out with that creep following me. Luckily I lost him. Similar incident happened at the same place at a later date. These experiences left bitter a taste.
If I have had positive experiences then I would have been posting something different here.
So yes I have my prejudices intact unless I meet someone who acts normal.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

So to all the traditionalists out there please feel free to express your concerns, your questions and your angst. It is better that they be addressed than quashed.

Thanks for your post sir. It's after reading this that I decided to post my experience.

[Ford5]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

.

I don't care if you're gay or minority or even closet gay. And before you immaturely try to make it look like space constraints exist for normal people, I can only say to you, be steadfast in whatever you believe, because abnormal will never be considered normal. Don't worry about the silent majority

Originally Posted by mayankk

I'm glad for the anonymity of the internet and social media.

What do you fear when #377 has been repealed? Holding hands outdoors and getting scolded? You need to man up and speak of the latest law that allows for whatever you were chided for. I mean atleast that's what i think is the freedom now to do. Be brave dear BHPian.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by Ford5

What do you fear when #377 has been repealed? Holding hands outdoors and getting scolded? You need to man up and speak of the latest law that allows for whatever you were chided for. I mean atleast that's what i think is the freedom now to do. Be brave dear BHPian.

Wow, you're really pulling no punches now as far as your homophobia is concerned now, are you?
OK, I'll "man up", as the phrase went in the Neanderthal age. I will always stand up for when someone is chided for holding hands. Not that anybody had any business even when 377 supported them.

Personally, I find your statement way below being accorded any dignity, so I will not respond to any from now on. The other side, which some learned members wanted acknowledged, is you, and it's as bad as I knew it was.

[Ford5]

Moderator Note: Do NOT TROLL on Team-BHP, and do NOT personally attack other BHPians either. FINAL WARNING.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Ford5

I don't care if you're gay or minority or even closet gay. And before you immaturely try to make it look like space constraints exist for normal people, I can only say to you, be steadfast in whatever you believe, because abnormal will never be considered normal. Don't worry about the silent majority

I must admit your style of writing is rather unique and leaves me
wondering whether my post is being appreciated or admonished. Thank you for letting me know I can come out of the closet. I would normally have been relieved. Except that I was never in there to start with. My wife of 30+ years does agree with you about me being a bit queer - after all how many 58 year olds fill their study with aircraft scale models and get upset with their wives when the aircraft models are banned from the living room and foyer. Cheers mate.