[V.Narayan]

Supreme Court rules it's not a crime to be a homosexual in India anymore

Key takeaways of the historic verdict:

• History owes an apology to LGBT persons for ostracisation, discrimination, the Supreme Court of India said
  
• LGBT community possesses the same human and fundamental rights as other citizens
  
• Sexual orientation a biological phenomenon, any discrimination on this grounds is violative of fundamental rights
  
• So far as a consensual unnatural sexual act in private is concerned, it is neither harmful nor contagious to society
  
• Courts must protect the dignity of an individual as the right to live with dignity is recognised as a fundamental right
  
• CJI Dipak Misra, speaking for himself and Justice A M Khanwilkar, says denial of self-expression is akin to inviting death
  
• Section 377 of IPC was a weapon to harass members of the LGBT community, resulting in discrimination
  
• Any kind of sexual activity with animals shall remain penal offence under Section 377 of the IPC
  
• SC partly strikes down Section 377 as violative of the right to equality
  
• IPC's Section 377, which criminalises consensual unnatural sex, irrational, indefensible and manifestly arbitrary
  
• Homosexuality is not a mental disorder. It is a completely natural condition
  
• Society cannot dictate sexual relationship between consenting adults as it a private affair
  
• Denial of right to sexual orientation is akin to denial of right to privacy

Section 377 of IPC is violative of Right to live with dignity

India is signatory of international treaties on rights of LGBT and it is obligatory to adhere to treaties

[GTO]

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Shifting Gears Section. Thanks for sharing!

[roy_libran]

I have been privy to seeing a few of my friends' suffer for decades, under this draconian, irrational law, before they emigrated out of India to lead a less constrained life.

Knowing them closely led to my own 'conditioned' perspective on this subject changing over time. They were perfectly good human beings, and all they wanted was to have the freedom to demonstrate their love and relationships just like the rest of us. Had they been in India today, they would definitely have been a little bit happier.

But, there is still the social outlook and ostracisation that they would have had to continue to deal with. While the law has done it's bit, now it is up to all of us to make them feel welcome and part of our families and circles. And if one cannot open their hearts to them yet, at the very least they are certainly not to be made a subject of jokes!

All in all, a very important step forward, but still a small step; the real change will only come once they are accepted in mainstream society, and I suspect it will take many more decades before we get there, if at all.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Society cannot dictate sexual relationship between consenting adults as it a private affair

This is a welcome statement in the verdict. Not just for people of the same gender, but there is considerable bias in our society against consensual relationships between any two adults who are not married. Young couples being denied rentals in several neighborhoods in Bangalore (I've seen it happen in my own neighborhood), being told hotel rooms are 'full', being subject to gossip and remarks. I hope this helps the situation a bit at least.

Originally Posted by roy_libran

I have been privy to seeing a few of my friends' suffer for decades,

I remember a wedding I attended some time ago. We were all with our wives and girlfriends. One friend of a friend was there with his partner, also a man. While we all were on the dance floor moving to a slow, romantic number, I happened to look back at the two of them. They were too aware of the social situation to even hold hands in public. Obviously a small thing compared to the persecution several same-sex couples have faced, but until then, I never realized how restrictive such a situation might be for the people in it.

[mayankk]

I am glad that this finally happened.
At least the legal persecution can stop, even if our society will continue to be small minded for some more decades.

[greenhorn]

While this is great news, I hope that Rape laws are amended quickly to include homosexual rape - My understanding is that currently, indian rape laws define rape pretty narrowly as something that a man does to a woman ( perhaps with the assumption that everything else is taken care of by sec 377).
While many will agree that this ruling is a step in the right direction, this leaves a gap for homosexual sex offenders that needs to be closed asap!

[Jeroen]

I welcome this news. Long overdue. We have a few gay friends in Delhi. Although it was never a problem for their own family (lucky them!) and friends and the social circles they moved in, the very fact that it was illegal was always hanging over their head as the proverbial sword of Damocles.

So it’s a good thing that this has been amended. Mind you it will take many decades/generations for it to become accepted by society at large. Even today, in the most liberal countries when it comes to LGBT, there are always groups and individuals who will oppose. Be it on religious and or other grounds.

Jeroen

[Ford5]

But who was ever incriminated in #377 pre or post independence? For cops to file an fir they'd need to be in rooms with offenders. I've never heard this happening.

IMO it was always about being chastised by society, which still won't change despite 377 being repealed, neither does it mean groping/indulging in lewd behaviour irrespective of gender affiliation or sexual orientation in public will be pardoned as most LGBT folks are imagining going by their tweets and rallies... which again leads to the question, who was incriminated in 377 for it to be repealed?

I'm not saying it shouldn't have been repealed, but the premise on which it was struck down was that you're no more guilty of what you do indoors, which was status quo any which way irrespective of 377 or not.

And for whoever concerned, keep in mind this is not a homophobic stance. It's a question.

[blacksport]

Historic verdict indeed. It would have been nicer if the central govt had stepped in and made the legislation, rather than leaving it to the judiciary to do the dirty work. Thankfully Dipak Mishra don't have to face a re-election. And the current govt has to be congratulated for this. Am sure without their support, this verdict wouldn't have happened.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

CJI Dipak Misra, speaking for himself and Justice A M Khanwilkar, says denial of self-expression is akin to inviting death

And let's not forget that this is the same Dipak Mishra who had been vilified by many of the left in the recent past.

Any kind of sexual activity with animals shall remain penal offence under Section 377 of the IPC

We sure find it disgusting, as many of us find sex between the same gender. I think the SC played safe by not addressing this case. They should have struck down the entire act, in my opinion.

Homosexuality is not a mental disorder. It is a completely natural condition

I have not been able to make up my mind on this, but a greater part of me likes to believe that it is a disorder although not a mental one. However, that is immaterial to the case in hand as...

Society cannot dictate sexual relationship between consenting adults as it a private affair

...^^^this is all that really matters.

Long live liberty!

[Chetan_Rao]

Long overdue, and very welcome.

There can be no democracy without equality, and providing all citizens equal rights must be part of the bedrock of a nation, not something up for partisan debate.

Human rights shouldn't be a matter of opinion, we're free to debate, legislate and litigate everything else as a collective.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by Ford5

But who was ever incriminated in #377 pre or post independence? For cops to file an fir they'd need to be in rooms with offenders. I've never heard this happening. -------SNIP-------And for whoever concerned, keep in mind this is not a homophobic stance. It's a question.

https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/n...0-people-delhi

Incrimination or not, there was widespread harassment. The above numbers are just for Delhi. If you want homophobia, check UP.
And what do you classify as lewd behavior in public? What are they going to start doing in public that offends the law? Only the law, not someone's delicate sensibilities.

[Ford5]

Originally Posted by mayankk

https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/n...0-people-delhi

Incrimination or not, there was widespread harassment. The above numbers are just for Delhi. If you want homophobia, check UP.
And what do you classify as lewd behavior in public?
What are they going to start doing in public that offends the law. Only the law, not someone's delicate sensibilities.

So touchy? Why not read up what the law says about lewd/indecent behaviour buddy. I'm not a judge nor an enforcer.

[lazy]

A very welcome move, and was mighty overdue.

I wonder if this will this lead to Marriage Laws getting updated to accept registrations for same sex marriages. Or that is too much to expect too soon?

Humans are indeed a strange species - not only do we consider ourselves to be more entitled compared to every other species, we even expect everyone within the human society to follow some illogical norms.


Good going India.

cheers
lazy

[WorkingGuru]

A meaningless unimplementable law has been struck down. Govts could've done it long back, but chose not to.

Strike down gender biased laws that are actually being grossly misused, like Section 498a.

The seriousness & scale of the social suffering is for a massive demographic, but mainstream News media won't show any empathy towards men, asif it were per design.

Far more men have started committing suicide than earlier, but parliament too laughs off any proposal for steps to protect basic rights for men & their family.

One interesting theory someone narrated was that large corporations and politicians deliberately want to destabilise society (to weaken the upper middle class, thereby reducing competition and also that a weaker society would spend more on worthless brands) which is why the govt won't actually implement Section 377 (while corporations propogate deviant behaviour fancifully) and govt will put up all machinery required to implement gender biased laws like Section 498a, despite them being grossly misused across the country.

[DriverR]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Society cannot dictate sexual relationship between consenting adults as it a private affair

I support this judgement. I do fear though that while society may not legally interfere now, society will find ways to still discriminate in subtle/not so subtle ways.

I have always believed in the basic right of Dignity every one of us has. Whatever happens between consenting adults is their matter. Others have no right to interfere or put shame just because they idea does not match their personal ideology/thought of what is right and wrong. If something does not intrude into my life or the way i live, why should i start poking others for what they do! The term 'consenting adults' exists for a reason.

I know this may seem like a very simplistic view, but at times, I feel we over complicate matters by bringing in so many angles to an issue that the basic point gets lost.