[Santoshbhat]

Plants may not need animals to survive but they have thrived on our planet because of the existence of animals. Animals, birds and insects help in pollination. So plants have them to thank for the wide diversity of plant life we see today. Urine, faeces and decomposition of dead animals also enriches the soil. Is it really possible to be truly vegan when the ecosystem is so inherently intertwined?

This continuous exchange of resources for billions of years has helped us to evolve from primitive single celled organisms to the complex life forms we see today in both flora and fauna. We humans today sit on the top of this pyramid and we owe it to this mutual companionship over the eons of time.

[scorpian]

Il tell you a little bit of my story.

I have been hardcore in to working out for over ten years and for the same reasons i heavily relied on a lot of meat and eggs to fulfill my protein needs. It was fine to some extent but usually left me bloated and with a stomach that was un-predictable.

Slowly i started cutting out meats and eggs and turned towards eating veg food for a while just to see how i feel and whether it would help in anyway with the bloated feeling and of-course the discomfort. From my personal experience i can say that yes it helped me. I eat veg food,it makes me feel lighter and my overall well being seems better. I understand that not eating meats could lead to deficiencies and i do supplement with a good multi vitamin.

All other members in my family except my mom are hardcore non-vegetarians.So its a matter of self made choice and not anything else. Has it affected my performance or endurance in the gym? Nope! I think this whole thing about eating so much protein is a farce and made out by supplement companies. Till the time you are eating good,nutritious food and keeping up to a good workout you will see results.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Hayek

However, I would respectfully state I don’t agree with those who say that because plants or pests also have life, killing them is the same as killing animals, whether for food or hide or just the pleasure of hunting.

So that's where YOU draw the line. We all draw our lines in the sand at different levels. There are vegetarians who draw their line before egg, some do it after egg. Bengal vegetarians do it after fish, so I hear. Most non-veg folks in India draw their line before red-meat. My parents drew the line after fish/chicken/mutton. I was like that until I moved abroad, where I re-drew the line to add some more variety of red-meat.

Originally Posted by Hayek

Animals and especially mammals are closer to humans in the evolutionary chain - and that’s the reason why we tend to get shocked when animals are killed unnecessarily but don’t feel pain in the same way when we see a lawn being mowed.

That may not be strictly true since rat/mice are closer evolutionary cousins to us than dog/cat/cow. I am sure most of those who can't stand a dog/cat/cow being killed, won't mind killing a rat that is gnawing at their car cables. So it is not about being a closer cousin, but our societal upbringing. It is what we are conditioned to accept.

Originally Posted by anand.shankar82

My wife and kids are pure vegetarians and I do not see them complaining one bit about it. I guess I will also be on their band-wagon from now on. However, if I ever get a chance (health-wise) to go back to meat, I will be more than happy

This is a common occurrence. Traditional vegetarians and traditional non-vegetarians have diets that supplement their nutritional needs. However, if you switch camp, that balance gets upset. Your ignorance of the new diet system will lead to excess or deficiency of different nutritional needs of the body.

My MIL turned vegetarian in the 90s for religious reasons, but she had no idea how to supplement the lack of protein in her diet. She didn't have any traditional vegetarian friend to guide her. So she grew thin and had very little immunity. She used to fall sick often. And she passed away couple years ago at the age 65 due to lung infection. Many doctors in our family pointed at her diet as the primary reason.

Something similar can happen to vegetarians turning to non-vegetarian. You may end up in excess, and it can lead to other health issues.

So if you are switching diets, please ensure it is balanced. Take help if you are not sure.

[Nav-i-gator]

This is on of those debates where we know, despite of our own personal food habits, that it's bad both ways. A healthy mix of vegetarian and non-vegetarian diet is what we need. That is what our evolution has mandated, that is how we have evolved to be what we are.

[bblost]

Originally Posted by scorpian

It was fine to some extent but usually left me bloated and with a stomach that was un-predictable.

My personal experience is that most people suffer bloating and an unpredictable stomach because of the spices and condiments used in the preparation of meat.

I am very comfortable eating just boiled meat and chicken. All it needs is a little salt.
But add in the things like corn flour, besan flour, crazy amounts of chillies and you are going to suffer most of these issues like a bloated stomach.

Best is to try and prepare chicken with just salt and pepper. Then see if you get the same symptoms.

Also portion sizes.
Most people need just a 2 inch square piece of chicken breast to meet their protein needs. But rarely do they stop at that.

Originally Posted by Hayek

we need 7 kg of grain to produce 1 kg of beef, for example.

Calories in 1 Kilo of Rib Eye : 2910
Calories in 7 Kilos of white rice : 10570

But as you can also see, the calories in rice are simply empty calories.




A little meat goes a long way.

Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator

This is on of those debates where we know, despite of our own personal food habits, that it's bad both ways. A healthy mix of vegetarian and non-vegetarian diet is what we need. That is what our evolution has mandated, that is how we have evolved to be what we are.

100% agree with this.
Would just like to add that the amount of vegetarian sources must be at least 3 times the amount of animal sources.

[bigron]

I am reminded of this quote by Denny Crane, a character from a TV sitcom called Boston Legal.
"Denny Crane: We're carnivores. When the pilgrims landed, the first thing they did was eat a few Indians."

I like following his ideology .
But this is one of those ' to each his own ' kind of thing.
Eat your bread and let me eat mine.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by bblost

Most people need just a 2 inch square piece of chicken breast to meet their protein needs. But rarely do they stop at that.

Calories in 1 Kilo of Rib Eye : 2910
Calories in 7 Kilos of white rice : 10570

But as you can also see, the calories in rice are simply empty calories.

To put in another way - most non-vegetarians need to learn when to stop eating their vegeterian food, or what to eat in vegeterian food.

Take a typical biryani lover for example. Most people eat their tummy full of rice and have the two pieces of chicken/mutton/meat afterwards. Wont touch the salad or anything else for sure. After a long time - this takes a toll on their health the two small meat pieces takes the obvious blame. Spices and the excess rice intake are never questioned.

On the other end of it - Have friends and relatives who consider the typical southindian Dosa and chutney as their intake of vegeterian food! Dosa morning, variety rice afternoon and dosa night - no veggies nothing, only the occassional hotel sambar. Some younger cousins are vegeterians who dont eat their veggies, and parents don't really seem worried as long as the idli is vanishing off the plate.

Our dietary issues would be solved if people could follow moderation either ways - and mix things up in the right proportions.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by pratika

After about 4 yrs of being vegan, my wife developed a tingling pain in her feet which was later diagnosed as deficiency of Vitamin B12.

Originally Posted by dark.knight

B12 supplements are indeed necessary for such a diet when followed to the fullest.

Originally Posted by deehunk

My neurosurgeon recommends supplement of B12 for all veggies from the age of 40.

This is so true! Almost every vegetarian I know in my family & friends circle suffers from B12 deficiency. All of us take supplements (I take the Nurokind B12 Strips).

@ all vegetarians / vegans: PLEASE get your levels checked.

[roby_dk]

What about Non-vegetarians. Is there any specific vitamin or mineral deficiency for them as well, or are there are any nutrients which get depleted from our body when we are on moderate non-veg diet.

[vinit.merchant]

I was identified with a slight deficiency of B12 a few years back. I started with the capsules, but have stopped the intake completely since couple of years.
Reading so much about it here, will just start with those capsules right away.

[pinin]

I was born in a Gujarati vegetarian family and vegetarianism came along with it. Have been travelling and living in different parts of the globe over the past 20 years and never felt the need to switch to a non vegetarian diet.

A year back when I was moving to Nordics was mentally prepared to eat fish. However, there is no dearth of vegetarian food in Nordics, heck its lip smacking good.

I believe what you eat is a matter of choice. To each their own.

[bblost]

Originally Posted by roby_dk

What about Non-vegetarians. Is there any specific vitamin or mineral deficiency for them as well, or are there are any nutrients which get depleted from our body when we are on moderate non-veg diet.

People on an omnivore diet having a balanced intake of vegetable, fruits and meat should ideally not have such an issue.

But an exclusive meat diet can cause issues. Especially if the person does not eat organ meat.

Scurvy is the first thing that comes to mind.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by roby_dk

What about Non-vegetarians.

On a related topic -What about Non- Vegeterians?

A vegeterian is a person whose diet excludes meat / fish / egg / milk etc as their choices demand.

A non- vegeterian is not the opposite of a vegeterian as the moral agenda seems to call out - I'm yet to see a person who doesn't eat what a vegeterian would eat. Every so called non-vegeterian ever eats their vegeterian food + substitutes it with meat.

Now - viewing this from the scientific background that the human body needs this balanced diet (let's not consider supplements here) and was evolved this way, this entire naming convention itself seems to be based on a moral agenda.

I mean - what if people who like their meat start calling others as 'non-meatarians' or something? Infact, it actually makes more sense in a literal way as it (the usage of 'non') refers to the abstinence of meat by the choice of the individual, rather than the current phrase of 'non-vegeterian' which implies that the individual doesn't have a plant based diet, or even implies morally to some as a negetivity of a vegeterian diet. Neither of which is really true.

And my understanding is that this usage has Indian origins. Before the recent advent of veganism, foreigners would be surprised at the usage of the term non-vegeterianiasm.

[V.Narayan]

Natural sources of vitamin B12 for vegetarians and eggitarians - Almonds, full fat milk, home made curd, paneer, cheese, and eggs.

[MadiMaama]

I have and always will be a vegetarian. And that means no eggs too. Multi Cuisine restaurants are also avoided by me to the best extent possible. I prefer vegetarian only.

On a side note, I was speaking to some children in a function and they were not drinking the milkshakes, nor eating any dairy products. When asked why, they replied that they were becoming vegan. Blew my mind off. I learnt the meaning of vegan only a couple of years back!! and here were 10-12 year old kids saying they were vegans!