[bblost]

Originally Posted by sjain2054

Avoid onions, potatoes, green chilli, mushrooms, baigan (eggplant) because they do not add any nutritional value.

You might want to reconsider that.
There is no super food, there is no mediocre food.
Everything has its own set of benefits.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by sjain2054

What is the difference between being a Vegan and being a Jain?

Jains do consume milk and ghee right? Vegans don't consume anything which comes from animals.

[gkveda]

Originally Posted by Guna

Jains do consume milk and ghee right? Vegans don't consume anything which comes from animals.

Then, Am I right in making a statement that "No animal can be born Vegan" theoretically, since all animals drinks mother's milk including humans?

Extending the logic, "No one in this world is 100% Vegan since at one point of time, he/she/it was a non-Vegan"

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by gkveda

Then, Am I right in making a statement that "No animal can be born Vegan" theoretically, since all animals drinks mother's milk including humans?

Extending the logic, "No one in this world is 100% Vegan since at one point of time, he/she/it was a non-Vegan"

I will extend it further. No person in this world is wearing clothes because they were born naked.
Or no person in this world is awake because they were definitely sleeping sometime.

[DCEite]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

I will extend it further. No person in this world is wearing clothes because they were born naked.
Or no person in this world is awake because they were definitely sleeping sometime.

On a serious note, there are other factors going against non vegetarian food, specially in our country.

The Chickens raised in India and eaten mostly are Broiler chickens, which are well known to be fed with huge amounts of hormones and anti-biotics. Ofcourse, a platter of Chicken Tikka or Tandoori chicken looks sumptuous, but what it really is and how it has evolved, is sickening.

Same goes with other non vegetarian "items", like Fish, seafood, and maybe even Mutton. Most fish are laden with Mercury and other chemicals.

Ofcourse, the Non-Vegetarian will counter this argument by saying that even the vegetables are grown with synthetic pesticides. But atleast, we have a choice with vegetables. We can opt for organic vegetables or use utmost care in washing. But we can't wash off the hormones and antibiotics present in Meat.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by DCEite

We can opt for organic vegetables or use utmost care in washing. But we can't wash off the hormones and antibiotics present in Meat.

Heard of 'free-range' chicken? Or our very own 'nati'? Though I grant you that most of those labels are probably as genuine as 'organic' is these days!

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by DCEite

Most fish are laden with Mercury and other chemicals.

We can opt for organic vegetables or use utmost care in washing. But we can't wash off the hormones and antibiotics present in Meat.

Organic is meant only for those who are loaded to the point where they can have first world problems, it doesn't apply to most people, the vast majority of farm produce is full of pesticides and whatever other carcinogens you can think of. Washing does next to nothing to remove the pesticide/chemical residue. The worst carcinogen is refined sugar.

Mercury is not present in most fish, the quantity is miniscule in small fish that most people consume, its in large fish that its a problem. Chicken is the only battery farmed meat and the effect of that is well known, mutton is absolutely safe, compared to whatever else is available.

[Technocrat]

The way meat keeps coming up in this thread, I wonder if there isn't enough to discuss about vegan and vegetarian diets

[BlackPearl]

People are coming up with humane ways of killing lobsters. Not sure if this is the right time or place to post. So mods please delete if it is inappropriate or if there is a separate thread on this subject. The link is - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...g-boiled-maine

[kiku007]

Keep the morality debate aside and enjoy the diversity guys.

My small family has,
1 - Eat anything that's edible.
2 - Don't eat meat or eggs; Cakes/gelatin is fine.
1 - Eats chicken but no beef, pork kind of meat.
1 - Can't eat items containing gluten, and doesn't eat meat. But on the rarest of the rare occasion if nothing else is available then chicken is ok.

It's up to the individual preferences, health limitations and even religious beliefs at some point. Doesn't really matter. I do have my meltdowns when trying to find a restaurant that suits us all when we travel (i.e outside India).

I literally give-up when some guests say they can't have onions and garlic as well. Fruits for ya! That's the best I can do.

It'll be good if this thread can throw light on good vegan/vegetarian dining options, dietary supplements, airlines that offer the best vegan/vegetarian options etc.

[turbospooler]

Originally Posted by sjain2054

What is the difference between being a Vegan and being a Jain? the west has woken up to and is promoting (with a different name) what the followers of Jainism have known for years.
Keep things simple. Ahimsa Parmo Dharma...Means no violence against any living thing. If this is followed, everything falls into place automatically.
But then we have to eat to survive. So what do we do? We adopt the way of minimum harm. Pluck a fruit, eat a vegetable. Minimum harm means knowing that if you pluck a fruit, the tree will grow it back. You do not kill the tree! When vegetables are grown, they are harvested when they are most ripe! Minimum harm!

Avoid onions, potatoes, green chilli, mushrooms, baigan (eggplant) because they do not add any nutritional value. Have more buts, berries, fruits, green leafy veggies!

Originally Posted by Guna

Jains do consume milk and ghee right? Vegans don't consume anything which comes from animals.

So guys, I am Jain (and a vegetarian) and allow me to clarify few things.


The concept of minimum harm is further evolved from the level of sentience the being who/which is being harmed for food.
As humans, animals have 5 senses (sight, hearing, taste, touch and smell), we are a more evolved being in the scheme of things. This is in comparison with plants who may have 3 (hearing, touch and smell [not sure is this is true but taken one more sense]).


So Jains are technically eating a lower level of life form which results in minimum harm.

Also, onions and roots are not consumed as their consumption can be done only when one disturbs the surrounding soil and the creatures living therein. Same goes for leafy vegetables where you might have heard few Jains refusing to eat green, leafy vegetables. Many other, small creatures thrive on these leafy vegetables for their own sustenance.
Which is why, many Jains don't consume these items which cause more violence or harm.

I have seen similar vegetarian concept in places you cannot imagine, Vietnam for example, where one literally eats anything and everything like in China. The reason: some of them practice Buddhism which also prescribes similar diet. My Vietnamese friends explained this concept to me and I would remark at how similar it is to Jain concept, except there was nothing mentioned about consuming roots etc.

I feel veganism is just really weird concept and I am very biased towards people who are vegans as they don't understand the technicalities of food and sustenance but are simply moved by the fact that animals also have equal rights and should not be consumed. Why I say they don't understand technicalities is that consuming milk by milking a cow is seen as cruelty by them! If the cow is not milked, her udders are full, she feels uncomfortable. And if the cow is free range or so, what is the problem in consuming her milk?


I think veganism is an "ideology" (and not a concept) as it ascribes to converting people from their carnivorous diet to the supreme one they are following!

[deehunk]

Originally Posted by turbospooler

Why I say they don't understand technicalities is that consuming milk by milking a cow is seen as cruelty by them! If the cow is not milked, her udders are full, she feels uncomfortable. And if the cow is free range or so, what is the problem in consuming her milk?
I think veganism is an "ideology" (and not a concept) as it ascribes to converting people from their carnivorous diet to the supreme one they are following!

What you have said is something scientifically proven, breeding of animals for commercial purpose is different from breeding an animal for domestic use.

[kaushal21fb]

Interesting topic. The concept of vegetarianism and veganism are both man made and there is nothing natural about them. People became vegetarian in the past so that they could act elite. So goes for the vegans now.
Cow (sheep or any domesticated species), are a man made product. They were fed, beaten and made to comply for generations that now its almost natural to them to live around humans. In a way it makes them successful too, since there are more cows, sheep and chickens than there could've been.

There's no morality in nature, just the need and the provider. We humans live a life of contradictions, and even with all our morality will still stand immoral.

A vegetarian needs what/rice, vegetables to survive. For this more farms need to be created and farms majorly serve a purpose to only one species i.e. humans.

If one really wants to save animal lives in a real moral way. Then tear down your houses (villages, cities and nations) and let the land be reclaimed by forests and let life proliferate naturally, then hunt and gather. More animal species/lives have disappeared from the face of the planet due to deforestation than humans eating them.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by turbospooler

Why I say they don't understand technicalities is that consuming milk by milking a cow is seen as cruelty by them! If the cow is not milked, her udders are full, she feels uncomfortable. And if the cow is free range or so, what is the problem in consuming her milk?
I think veganism is an "ideology" (and not a concept) as it ascribes to converting people from their carnivorous diet to the supreme one they are following!

The problem is when something reaches an 'industry' status, the focus is on scale and productivity, the animals are not always treated in a humane way. Cow feels uncomfortable if the milk is not extracted because she is made to produce the milk in such volume, the calf can't consume. This problem doesn't exist with the cows which are domestically raised.

[lazy]

It is always interesting to read and know the varied viewpoints and thought process.

Food is a personal choice, and shouldn't be defined other individuals opinions (or even the governments).

However, it probably needs be accepted that plant based food is significantly superior to food sourced from animals in every possible way (barring taste, for me).

If anyone doesn't agree, I would suggest you to read, and read, and read, or watch documentaries on YouTube.
(of course, not mainstream media, or stuff by food corps, pharma corps, etc.).

We can discuss and argue until the cows come home - survival, food chain, proteins, free-range, energy density, etc., etc. - but the above fact will not change.
Animal based food is unhealthy and it is making us sick and killing the earth.


- We need proteins to be healthy & strong, hence need meat - FALSE (check content in mother's milk, the most complete food, its <1%),
- Meat has been integral to human survival and evolution - FALSE (check time taken to digest red meat in humans, with 5x longer intestines than carnivores, it is upto 60 hrs, check research on meat and cancer/impotency/list is endless),
- Dairy is healthy - FALSE (humans don't digest milk post childhood, check correlation between casein intake and prostate cancer, list is too long),
- Literally 100s of ailments/diseases can be significantly reversed by eliminating dairy & meat from our diets, but we choose to eat medicines instead of giving up a "tasty" food.

This can go on and on.
But the reality is one can discuss to gain knowledge and raise awareness, but discussions cannot change opinions and mindsets that don't want to change.

PS: On a plant based diet, one may need to supplement B12 & D3. Nothing else.
PS: I am a non vegetarian.

cheers
lazy