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Old 5th November 2018, 20:31   #91
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Default Re: #MeToo - Women's Safety in India

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Let me remove my keyboard warrior hat, and hark back to my early days (early 90s).

None of us could say anything since none of the girls openly discussed it, let alone complain to police.


The '90s were an interesting time.

There was no "sexual harassment". Sarkaylo khatiya was absolutely fine.

There was no taught concept of consent.

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The probability that a man will not get harassed in a public place and the probability that a woman will get harassed is the same.
BB, you have not traveled in peak hour Bombay local trains or a Dadar-Panvel ST bus, no?
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Old 7th November 2018, 15:43   #92
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BB, you have not traveled in peak hour Bombay local trains or a Dadar-Panvel ST bus, no?
#MeToo is about harassment at the workplace or by a person known to the victim. It doesn't include street level harassment where the perpetrators are unknown. Please don't confuse the two.

Last edited by discoverwild : 7th November 2018 at 15:45.
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Old 7th November 2018, 18:00   #93
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Default Re: #MeToo - Women's Safety in India

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Please don't confuse the two.

I know what it is. The response was to bb's post.
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Old 10th November 2018, 21:09   #94
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I have been a silent Spectator to this thread. But today I am writing this after incident that happened to my elderly mother. My mother had politely asked dog owner not to allow his dog to urinate near our garden as there is seperate place for dogs to urinate and defecate. What followed was a barrage of abuses. When my mother posted in our society ladies WhatsApp group ( these women call them feminist).What followed was unexpected.None of women in this group came in support. Instead the wife of person who abused my mother called her liar and and hurled abuses. My mother hit back.

This incident clearly demonstrated to me as to why METOO movement is required. Also it clearly shows hypocrisy of feminist movement as a whole.
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Old 11th November 2018, 15:09   #95
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Default Re: #MeToo - Women's Safety in India

I don't think you can find much on the topic by extrapolating from your mother and her whatsapp groups!

Sadly, though, there are too many people like the dog walker in the world. And his wife.
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Old 12th November 2018, 11:44   #96
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Default Re: #MeToo - Women's Safety in India

I don't know whether the metoo movement is providing anymore value to the society than provide a platform for celebrities to get even with their former bosses. At one side there is genuine harassment, and at the other end there are compromises one willingly or unwillingly made to achieve career advancement. I don't think we should put them in the same basket.

Also regressive are efforts to put a spectrum of offences under one umbrella of sexual harassment, now broadly termed as rape. Now not just forced sexual acts, but even pushing a woman or staring at her is termed as rape. If some guy beats me up in, he can spend a few months in jail, reform, and get back with his life. But somebody who, due to bad judgement, tried to kiss a colleague can have his career and life ruined.

Progressiveness is about supporting progress that is natural. And natural progress is gradual. Unfortunately, modern progressives force their sense of morality on others and call it progress.

The comparisons to pendulum swinging the other way would sound smart, but think about it: you are trivializing somebody's suffering calling it fate. Such comparisons are downright regressive and insulting to the victim. If something was wrong when the pendulum was at one side, it is equally wrong when the pendulum has swung to the other side.

What happened to "proof or it didn't happen". Even if there is lack of proof, it does not warrant replacing it with not requiring any proof. Else there will be madness. If such laws become the norm, there will come a time when men would not want to be associated with women and will not hire women workers.

Since everybody is sharing anecdotes let me share one myself. At office one late evening I happened to see a guy and gal involved in PDA inside one of the cubes. Since their PM was a friend of mine, at a lunch, I jokingly told the PM about this. The PM told me not to say this to anybody else for my own good. Cos a few months ago, the same couple were caught making out in the parking lot by a security guard and reported it. At the inquiry that followed, they couple denied it, and the girl accused the guard of lying. She also had a reason for that: that she had resisted the guards sexual advances in the past. The case obviously was dismissed.

Below a video I came across today morning. It is in malayalam, so I would provide a brief. The guy in the video is a small time actor and tells the story about a time when his car was rear ended by another car whose occupants seemed to be drunk. The car also had a young woman seated in the back. At the police station, the policeman urged the guy to drop the complaint. Cos the woman sitting at the back of the car lodged a counter complaint that the guy tried to abuse her. No points for guessing who won at the end.
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Old 12th November 2018, 14:01   #97
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Default Re: #MeToo - Women's Safety in India

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#MeToo is about harassment at the workplace or by a person known to the victim. It doesn't include street level harassment where the perpetrators are unknown. Please don't confuse the two.
Not completely true. It is (or was supposed to be) a movement against sexual harassment and sexual assault not only at workplace but elsewhere too. Take a look. Includes churches too. Specifically read the "Purpose" section which will reiterate my point of not restricting this to only women!

EDIT - A quote from the wiki page -
Quote:
It has been noted that 1 in 6 men have experienced sexual abuse of some sort during their lives and often feel unable to talk about it.

Last edited by centaur : 12th November 2018 at 14:05.
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Old 12th November 2018, 15:40   #98
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Not completely true. It is (or was supposed to be) a movement against sexual harassment and sexual assault not only at workplace but elsewhere too. Take a look. Includes churches too. Specifically read the "Purpose" section which will reiterate my point of not restricting this to only women!

EDIT - A quote from the wiki page -
You are confusing my point.

I said "#MeToo is about harassment at the workplace or by a person known to the victim. It doesn't include street level harassment where the perpetrators are unknown." This includes all places churches, temples, schools, colleges, offices, etc. The perpetrators are known. However, out on the street, they are unknown to the victim.

I never brought gender into the equation.
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Old 12th November 2018, 15:48   #99
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You are confusing my point.

I never brought gender into the equation.
Probably I got confused since you mentioned workplace. Agree that it is at any place but by a known person

The Gender part was for another discussion earlier in the thread and not specific to your post actually.

Last edited by centaur : 12th November 2018 at 15:50. Reason: spelling mistake
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Old 13th November 2018, 15:33   #100
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Default Re: #MeToo - Women's Safety in India

Nor sure whether this is well known. The man who wrote the search and ranking algorithm at Google got fired at Uber last year based on sexual harassment allegation.

https://qz.com/india/920713/the-rise...fired-by-uber/
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Old 13th November 2018, 23:23   #101
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Flipkart group CEO Binny Bansal quits with immediate effect over something similar.

https://m.economictimes.com/industry...w/66608779.cms


What I fail to understand is Walmart has said while they didn't find any evidence to corroborate the complaint, they found lack of transparency in the way Binny addressed the matter. Whatever the heck it means.

Are we trying to take a holier than thou approach here, and hanging every accused out to dry without following the due process of law?

Why doesn't anyone tell us the truth?
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Old 13th November 2018, 23:46   #102
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Default Re: #MeToo - Women's Safety in India

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Why doesn't anyone tell us the truth?
You mean the Nation wants to know?

Sorry, that's not how sexual harassment cases are handled within companies. The investigation and also the resulting action is taken without any fanfare. These don't end up in public courts unless the victim files a case or approaches the police.
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Old 14th November 2018, 07:57   #103
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Default Re: #MeToo - Women's Safety in India

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What I fail to understand is Walmart has said while they didn't find any evidence to corroborate the complaint, they found lack of transparency in the way Binny addressed the matter. Whatever the heck it means.
Same questions came to my mind when I read. Can a CEO (for that matter any employee) be removed without any evidence to corroborate a complaint? I think there is enough room to suspect this to be a corporate drama and power tussle post acquisition between buyers and original promoters.

But who are we to speculate. It's up to Mr Bansal to come out in open and talk about it.

Knee jerk reactions on every accusation - by public or corporates - without following any principles of fair justice, are creating an atmosphere of distrust between two genders. Male managers would think 10 times before recruiting a female in the staff. Certainly this is happening. I also shared a survey by a newspaper that showed this pattern in a previous post.
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Old 14th November 2018, 09:07   #104
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Default Re: #MeToo - Women's Safety in India

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Can a CEO (for that matter any employee) be removed without any evidence to corroborate a complaint?
The appearance of impropriety can in itself be significant, in the case of a C-level employee. The board can lose confidence in that person, leading to them making a change.

The argument that is often made is that if such a person can exhibit poor judgement in such a situation (e.g. failing to disclose a relationship with an employee at its tamest, harassment/assault at the worst), that poor decision making can easily spill over into the professional side as well (e.g. fail to disclose an issue that can hurt the company financially or by image, such as a defective product that can cause injury/death).

The board of a company has responsibility for oversight, and failing to act is a breach of fiduciary duty.
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Old 14th November 2018, 09:24   #105
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If its non-disclosure, its not just lack of judgement or lack of transparency. Its against company policies and hence can be penalized. Same happened with Phaneesh Murthy.

Never know what actually happened. Some people think it was a old complaint that was brought out to kick out the CEO ! There should be rules for transparency by the company now. How can they have non-disclosure on terms of separation ?
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