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Old 26th December 2018, 16:26   #31
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Default Re: The 4-day working week?

There are different points to the issue.
1. Is the worker high skill based (Analytics, AI, IoT or Oil rig manager etc). For them 4/5 day is fine as long as the work happens and they will not have work on a daily basis.
2. Operational worker (Operations team, invoicing etc) they will have repetitive work and very few deviation from their standard work. For them it will be difficult to work in a 4 day week as their wages will go down.

For the first group the wages will not take a hit. I am in sales and I hardly go to office 2-3 days a week and most of the time at customer place.
My day ends generally at 5-5:30 its only quarter and year ends when the pressure are high.
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Old 26th December 2018, 16:59   #32
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Default Re: The 4-day working week?

4 day work week (8 hr/day) is simply very less work. It means only 16 working days on an average per month. Doesn't justify the monthly salary in any way. Whatever happened to the good old "paying your dues"? Too much of leisure is also a bad thing, a perfect "an idle mind is a devil's workshop". We should not display that much reluctance for our work, remember it is paying our bills & supporting our families. Instead of reducing days, optimise your productivity. Try & reduce commute time, avoid whiling away on social media & mindless banter (not that I'm implying people on this forum do that). Work hard for five days, you'll treasure the two off days you'll have more.
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Old 26th December 2018, 17:04   #33
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Default Re: The 4-day working week?

All this talk about "X" days a week boils down to just one thing. The company culture and the mentality of your bosses who are always up for earning a couple of brownie points in front of management. Most of the companies i have worked for, have this 5 days a week written on the papers to flaunt. But when it comes to reality, they ask employees to work for 6 days. And if an employee leaves office after working within the assigned working hours, his bosses tell him during the appraisal that "You have a sarkari job. you come by 0900 hrs and leave office by 1800 hrs." They ask you to report on 6th day also and you dare not say "No". One of my acquaintance who stays and works in western part of the globe told me that it is the desis-Indians who are responsible for degrading the work environment. They play dirty politics everywhere by trying to rise up in the management. This is true in india as well. Entrepreneurs always have this aim of maximizing their operating profits. For that they would not hesitate to fire every person who follows the so called theory of work life balance. They are lucky to run their business in India where manpower is not a problem at all. An employee gets fired and there are 10 more in the queue who are willing to work for less. Who cares for quality? Blame it squarely on the population explosion.

As per my thought, Warren buffet is the only person who will advice you to become rich by sacrificing all you have, keep on investing, keep on saving, always keep on working hard. And entrepreneurs in India have already taken him as their guru and are destroying the work life balance of their employees.
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Old 26th December 2018, 17:11   #34
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Default Re: The 4-day working week?

Well I believe that Saturdays and Sundays should be off - so let them remain untouched.

Additionally, Mondays first half should be also off since the hangover (of most of the enjoyable things in life not just beverage) gets to you and you need a few hours after waking up to get back to the work with full concentration.

Friday second half should also be off, since people are anyway in a weekend mood by the lunch time and only looking forward to the weekend.

Now remains the dreaded Wednesday, to make it easier for people to continue work for the week, I propose that even Wednesdays should be off so that people don't get de-motivated on Mondays and Tuesdays about the long dreary work week.

###

In more serious tone, as society has progressed, our lives have become less drudgery oriented. Farmers, hunters, foragers don't have concept of weekends. Neither they have concept of work hours - except those stipulated by nature - like day light.
So we have come from 7 days a week 12 hours a day work week to something like 5 days a week 8-9 hours a day.

If we really believe in "progress" and the technology that makes lives easier for human beings while still satisfying all the needs and greeds - there is only one way forward:
Less number of days per week and less number of hours per day.
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Old 26th December 2018, 17:17   #35
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Default Re: The 4-day working week?

I think there are 2 main points to be noted here.

1. Quantum of time taken in a day for work - Most of us in IT sector work in a very dynamic day cycle. Sometimes we have calls in the early hours of the day and sometime its the late hours of night. Secondly, we also tend to spend time in office making PC (private conversations). We take multiple tea/coffee breaks and our lunch breaks are longer than normal. To this extent, the actual amount of time we work is probably 5 to 5.5hours per day. I did an analysis in my previous firm and the hours boiled down to 5.3hours per day mid to senior level staff and 6.5hrs for junior staff. Suffice to say, we spend extraordinary time at work doing things beyond work. If we were to now optimize this, it translates to about 26 hours per week. Can we now compress our worklife into a 3/4 day schedule given the amount of actual work we do. The most disciplined might, but lesser mortals will not.
2. Type of Job - This again matters. If it is something that you love doing, the effort taken and the commensurate results will speak for themselves. We tend to finish the more passionate things very quickly compared to other work. I am currently working on this area using Employee experiences and job roles. Will be interesting to see the outcomes of it
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Old 26th December 2018, 18:59   #36
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Default Re: The 4-day working week?

There is a thing called Alternate Workweek schedule in many states in US.
The most common type is called 9-80.

8,8,8,8,8 --> 40 is the usual work week.

9,9,9,9,8 -> 44
9,9,9,9,Holiday -> 36

is the alternating workweek system. Every employee takes alternate Fridays off. Technically the traffic can reduce to 50% on Fridays.
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Old 26th December 2018, 19:23   #37
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Default Re: The 4-day working week?

Well, to small business owners like me, 7 day work week is not a new thing. My employees work 6 days a week. Once in a month we can afford a 5 day work week.
In my opinion stress and work-life balance are overrated. If you want your 40 hours week to become 32 hours, you my friend, are in the wrong job.

A very important element in a job is "passion" towards it. When it is lacking, any amount of work becomes stressful.

No offence to anyone, but just stating my opinion. I don't find it stressful even if I had to do 12 hour work days for 6 days a week. It may be because ownership and accountability of a person running his own show has to be high or else he would be forced to shut shop. The bottom-line is there must be a purpose attached to what ever we do. I don't know how it can be applicable to vast majority of people working in IT sector, because I am an ex IT employee who had no clue of what I was doing(the purpose/impact of what I was doing) and hence quit it.

I also believe lack of physical exercise and junk food lifestyle contributes to a major component of this so called "stress".

I would suggest people to give a look into Dwayne Johnson, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Gary Vaynerchuk's past to just understand what working hard is all about. We as a society are deluded into becoming soft and lazy. No one wants to exert themselves physically or mentally. Again, just my opinion.

Last edited by PrasannaDhana : 26th December 2018 at 19:36.
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Old 26th December 2018, 19:24   #38
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Default Re: The 4-day working week?

IMHO the weekly hours should be capped. For example 35,40 Hours per week and project deadlines.My Team and I thrived in this environment. We used to work with project deadlines and the hours of work required to achieve it. We at times could take an entire month off when we completed projects on time.

My boss was strictly against over time and always said that if you are unable to complete your tasks within the 7 hours provided to you. It means either you are incompetent at your job or your manager is incompetent in assigning the task.

I feel an individual has their own way of working and if some one is able to do an excellent job working from home. Then the person should be allowed to work from Home. (Saves infra cost). But some how working here in India I have seen that most people require constant supervision and Work from home does not really work (except in IT).People need to be more disciplined.
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Old 26th December 2018, 20:31   #39
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Default Re: The 4-day working week?

Those working 5 days a week anyway work 4 days right? We have 22-30 days off depending on the organisation. Then most of them have 12 holidays. Plus some sick day offs. Few team outings or family days. They probably add up to 52 days.
I work 4 days all weeks 8am to 6pm, stay close to work place to avoid wasting time in travel, no work related phone calls or emails during remaining 3 days. Those 3 days are well spent on the family, social causes, hobbies and sports.
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Old 26th December 2018, 20:39   #40
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Default Re: The 4-day working week?

There are already companies in India who support a 4 day week but 11 hrs a day. I however prefer personally the work from home arrangement in my organization. Saves me the 27 km one way commute to a different state everyday. I go to office once or twice a week if at all. Helps me give more time to my work than wasting time commuting.
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Old 26th December 2018, 21:28   #41
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Default Re: The 4-day working week?

Back in 2003-04 my company then tried a 4 day week. You slogged 10H per day x 4. It failed after a while. Most wanted the “comp off” on Monday/Friday. Productivity went down, the Sigma was hit—and the Black Belt whose brainchild this was: was hated by all. It was a harrowing experience, not a good way to marginalise the workforce. Crashing out after 10 hours and then partying for 3 days, starts to sound boring after a while.
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Old 26th December 2018, 21:40   #42
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Default Re: The 4-day working week?

My company has started the 9 X 80 schedule here in US and Canada.
We work every day for 9 hours, and get alternate Friday off. The working Friday is only for 8 hours.

It has overall gotten positive reviews from employees. For me personally it's been a mixed bag, fact that you have to work more per day more makes me bit more tired. While alternate Fridays are off, wife and kids are working, so it's mainly me and Netflix. But yeah longer weekends are good.

Some employees have mentioned that, as they are late to pick kids they have to pay more to daycare. So, now our HR allows individuals choice to opt for normal schedule or 9 X 80. Let us see how long this lasts, for now they are marketing this a tool to attract more folks to join !!
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Old 27th December 2018, 00:54   #43
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Default Re: The 4-day working week?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
I could do this 5 days a week, and have the weekend to myself. 4 days a week will also work, gives a great extended week-end to work on your personal stuff which is so so important and neglected.

The issue is not 4 day week or 5 day week. The issue is what we do IN that day at work. I typically work very quickly and have the ability to wrap up a full day's work in a few hours.

Back in India, and my own staff balk at me when I bring up the subject of getting in at 8 am and leaving by 16.00 hours.
I too can wrap up my work in a few hours but if you were my boss I would balk at you cause I can't start functioning at 8 in the morning

IMO rather than the number/days of work, flexible working hours and task based evaluation should be the focus, especially in the Software development field.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rulerofsun View Post
My boss was strictly against over time and always said that if you are unable to complete your tasks within the 7 hours provided to you. It means either you are incompetent at your job or your manager is incompetent in assigning the task.
This is generally true but I have seen cases wherein people reach out to their managers when they are overburdend. Sometimes with multuple dotted lines of reporting structure, work gets assgined from different sources and it is the responsibilty of the employee to call out when things are going out of hand. So, it is not always about completing your tasks on time, but managing your tasks so that you can complete them on time.

PS: Forget 4 day week, the book on my bedside is The 4-Hour Work Week

Last edited by Jaguar : 27th December 2018 at 01:06.
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Old 27th December 2018, 08:01   #44
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Default Re: The 4-day working week?

IN the days when mobile connectivity was non-existent and computerization in it's infancy, a person was completely cut off from work once he left office. If the office burnt down he would probably find out next day when he reached there. In such situations 6 day working was probably very acceptable.

Fast forward to today - Hours in the day remain same but to-do list has increased. Entertaining, commute time, internet time, household chores - even 2 days off seems to be less. Is the solution reducing working hours?
I feel the focus should be on work-life integration (as opposed to work-life balance). Provide options to work when you can contribute best and spend time with family when that is required most. I know certain jobs cannot work this way but this should be implemented where possible.

my 2 c worth...
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Old 27th December 2018, 09:42   #45
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Default The 4-day working week?

A 4-day working week. Will this ever happen here? I don't think there are HR personnels or entrepreneurs who would want to really get down there and think to implement. They simply go by theories and just follow the age old processes. The concept of most companies is "I pay you - You will have to slog/be at my office for 9hrs a day."

Anyways to me, the 4-day working week will be a life changer.
I would really want to spend more time with my family especially kids.
My thinking abilities might get better and what I do in 5days can be done in 4days.
I needn't take unnecessary leaves and eventually encash them once a year.
Since I get to keep close to half a week for myself, I don't get that 'beat-up' feel. I don't even feel like I am working.
I get a sense of satisfaction that I am having a great work-life balance.

A work from home facility is also a good initiative that must be practiced with appropriate regulations and limitations.

"Evolve is one word I could say to the corporate world."

Mods- Not sure why the punctuations are getting changed after I post.

Last edited by petrolhead_chn : 27th December 2018 at 09:45.
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