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Old 17th October 2015, 21:44   #2836
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Originally Posted by kumar2007 View Post
Wheel size has nothing [much] to do with fit/comfort, except if you are very small. I have a friend who rides a 20" wheel bicycle faster than most people here would ride a road bike.

Feel free to disagree, its not a mathematical equation. But you don't seem to realize that 1.60m is actually pretty small, compared to your average Dutch lady. My wife's previous bike was officially a kids bike with 26" wheels. As she is not Dutch she also rides slightly different as most Dutch. She wants to be able to have both her feet reach the ground easily when standing still.

We had to try several dozen different frames and we found one, that despite the 29 wheels still made her feel comfortable. Comfortable is a feeling, not a rule. But I'm very happy to be enlightened in the Indian bicycle scene.

So here is her bicycle http://www.gazelle.nl/assortiment/orange-c7-plus

Jeroen
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Old 17th October 2015, 22:40   #2837
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Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Feel free to disagree, its not a mathematical equation. But you don't seem to realize that 1.60m is actually pretty small, compared to your average Dutch lady. My wife's previous bike was officially a kids bike with 26" wheels. As she is not Dutch she also rides slightly different as most Dutch. She wants to be able to have both her feet reach the ground easily when standing still.

We had to try several dozen different frames and we found one, that despite the 29 wheels still made her feel comfortable. Comfortable is a feeling, not a rule. But I'm very happy to be enlightened in the Indian bicycle scene.

So here is her bicycle http://www.gazelle.nl/assortiment/orange-c7-plus

Jeroen
You didn't get what I said. Small, yes fitting is an issue, but big, like you, and you don't 'need' the biggest wheels. Maybe the biggest frame, but wheels don't come in to the fitting.
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Old 17th October 2015, 22:42   #2838
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Re: The Bicycles thread

Wheels hamper fit only if the person is small.

Edit: If her feet touch the ground when on the saddle, her fit is wrong, and will tell in the long run.

Last edited by kumar2007 : 17th October 2015 at 22:43.
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Old 18th October 2015, 00:43   #2839
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The Bicycles thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by kumar2007 View Post
Wheels hamper fit only if the person is small.

Edit: If her feet touch the ground when on the saddle, her fit is wrong, and will tell in the long run.

I used to build bicycles myself including the design and the actual fabrication and welding of the frame. Took a course in frame building and welding. in the Netherlands you can do that as a hobby easily. Been a while, but the wheel diameter does have an influence on the frame and vice versa. You cant just say that her fit is wrong just because her feet touch the ground. Thats just a dumb rule of thumb used by people who sell standard fit bikes. At best it is based on some sort of average built and proportionate person. Very few people comply with average. Certainly my wife, or myself don't. Im 196 cm, with a long body and short legs, relatively speaking. On a standard bike you will never sit perfectly, you need to get a purpose built bicycle for that, such I used to put together.

So a standard bike tends to be a compromise on a few things. What is important is that you feel comfortable and safe. For my wife that means her feet have to touch the ground so she feels she can stop easily. Its not a big deal as she only uses it for short hops of maximum 30-40km or so.

Bigger wheels are more comfortable then small wheels. Thats just how the math works. Speed and wheel size is a very different matter altogether.

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 18th October 2015 at 00:53.
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Old 18th October 2015, 06:25   #2840
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Re: The Bicycles thread

Of course wheel diameter has an influence in frame build. It does not have an impact on fit, for big people. A big guy can ride a correctly fitting frame even if designed for 16" wheels.

No, the feet touching the ground when on the saddle is plain wrong, not a 'dumb rule'.

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/articl...t-right-14608/

If your foot reaches the ground when on the saddle your knee is too bent. It's very basic, and saying that it's a dumb rule sends out the wrong signal to newbies here.

Wrong saddle height leads to injuries.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/fitne...it-right-25379

Also, if the road surface is good, there is little difference in comfort based on wheel diameter. Tyre width yes, but not diameter.

Last edited by kumar2007 : 18th October 2015 at 06:53.
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Old 18th October 2015, 14:55   #2841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kumar2007 View Post
Of course wheel diameter has an influence in frame build. It does not have an impact on fit, for big people. A big guy can ride a correctly fitting frame even if designed for 16" wheels.

If your foot reaches the ground when on the saddle your knee is too bent. It's very basic, and saying that it's a dumb rule sends out the wrong signal to newbies here.

Wrong saddle height leads to injuries.

Also, if the road surface is good, there is little difference in comfort based on wheel diameter. Tyre width yes, but not diameter.
If you're average, average will do you just fine. Newbies can make up their mind as to who and what to believe. This whole injury thing on bicycles is akin to the other thread we have on the forum regarding idling your turbo engine before shutting it down. Fiercely debated but hundreds of millions of drivers have never heard of it and lack of understanding of this rule doesn't seem to cause havoc with these hundreds of millions turbo engines.

This bicycle rule is the same. Its a nice starting point, but I would add, make sure you feel comfortable and safe. And if that means you are of a bit compared to the average you can at least claim not to be following the masses.

In order to harm yourself on a bicycle you have to do some serious mileage. If you are doing serious mileage I would always advise to consider for a purpose built Bicycle. Its expensive, but if you are pouring in the mileage its well worth considering.

We are putting way to much science into a bit of cycling, which above all should just be fun.

I used to ride my bicycle to school, 25 km each way 50 km a day on a hand me down bicycle from my sister. At university it was 35 km each way daily on my dad's old bike who is about 25 cm shorter then I was. Nobody had ever heard of this rule in those days and everybody grew up, went to school, to university and commuted to work just fine. Bought my first racing bike when I was fourteen from a neighbour and went around the IJsselmeer every month at breath taking speed (distance 250 km). Oh, and we did not carry water bottles or wore special clothing either. Its literally 'on your bike'!

Enjoy your bicycle. It is great fun and very healthy! Why do you think the Dutch are the only nation in the world with a decreasing BMI and, if I might add no pain in their knees!

Jeroen




Jeroen

Last edited by Aditya : 20th October 2015 at 07:47. Reason: Typo
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Old 18th October 2015, 17:34   #2842
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Re: The Bicycles thread

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
If your average, average will do you just fine. Newbies can make up their mind as to who and what to believe. This whole injury thing on bicycles is akin to the other thread we have on the forum regarding idling your turbo engine before shutting it down. Fiercely debated but hundreds of millions of drivers have never heard of it and lack of understanding of this rule doesn't seem to cause havoc with these hundreds of millions turbo engines.

This bicycle rule is the same. Its a nice starting point, but I would add, make sure you feel comfortable and safe. And if that means you are of a bit compared to the average you can at least claim not to be following the masses.

In order to harm yourself on a bicycle you have to do some serious mileage. If you are doing serious mileage I would always advise to consider for a purpose built Bicycle. Its expensive, but if you are pouring in the mileage its well worth considering.

We are putting way to much science into a bit of cycling, which above all should just be fun.

I used to ride my bicycle to school, 25 km each way 50 km a day on a hand me down bicycle from my sister. At university it was 35 km each way daily on my dad's old bike who is about 25 cm shorter then I was. Nobody had ever heard of this rule in those days and everybody grew up, went to school, to university and commuted to work just fine. Bought my first racing bike when I was fourteen from a neighbour and went around the IJsselmeer every month at breath taking speed (distance 250 km). Oh, and we did not carry water bottles or wore special clothing either. Its literally 'on your bike'!

Enjoy your bicycle. It is great fun and very healthy! Why do you think the Dutch are the only nation in the world with a decreasing BMI and, if I might add no pain in their knees!

Jeroen




Jeroen
Gosh. This post is all over the place. None of the 'points' you make are relevant to the topic of discussion. Certainly the Dutch having a low BMI is most irrelevant to the discussion of saddle height.

Also, you do NOT need a custom built bicycle to change the saddle height, so that your feet do not touch the ground when on the saddle.

You might have built your own bikes, and cycled at great speeds all around whatever, but you are plain wrong.

If your feet touch the ground when on the saddle, your saddle is too low. It's as simple as that, and you can ask any cyclist and he will tell you the same.

http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/qu...on-a-bike-seat

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/do-...ground.128180/

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/archi...p/t-44109.html
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Old 18th October 2015, 19:14   #2843
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Noob alert: sorry if I sound naive, but in my limited experience of cycling, I'm bugged with the following doubts. Can someone please help?

I ride a road bike and intend to put it to serious usage. (like 50km commute, the purpose which I had in mind when I picked a roadie.) I began with 10 km rides on alternate days to 25 km rides on alternate days now.

1. Do cleats really enhance my pedalling ?

2. Should I downshift to keep my cadence high, especially when the going gets tough?

Thanks.
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Old 18th October 2015, 20:31   #2844
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Originally Posted by VintageSree View Post
1. Do cleats really enhance my pedalling ?

2. Should I downshift to keep my cadence high, especially when the going gets tough?

Thanks.
Yes and Yes.
For cleats, u will need a bit of learning curve. Every time you stop you need to unlock to avoid a free fall at 0 speed. It looks hilarious but it can be very painful. Practice practice and practice, your muscle memory will do it automatically.
I commute on bicycle, don't use cleats, too much of a hassle to unlock at every slow down/traffic light

On higher cadence, your knees will thank you for it! It's okay to press on at lower cadence in high gear say climbing up a small flyover etc. But knees will hurt if you do it for a long time.
To build muscles, go for higher gear lower cadence.
For building stamina, for higher cadence, lower gear.
I Both cases, try to keep the max speed possible.
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Old 19th October 2015, 03:46   #2845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kumar2007 View Post
Also, you do NOT need a custom built bicycle to change the saddle height, so that your feet do not touch the ground when on the saddle.


If your feet touch the ground when on the saddle, your saddle is too low. It's as simple as that, and you can ask any cyclist and he will tell you the same.

]

I have been wrong many, many times, you should try it too some time. It is very enlightening.
The reason for a custom built bicycle is quite a bit more then just your feet touching the ground. In fact when you design a custom bicycle that is usually not relevant at all. All the other parameters are and your feet end up compared to the ground in whatever fashion it so happens to be.

I think its good for the newbies, to use your term, have a feeling that there is more to cycle fitting then an average rule about where your feet need to be compared to the ground. Feeling comfortable and safe on a bicycle is, I believe, a very big thing, no matter what any fitting rule might.

Happy cycling!

Jeroen
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Old 19th October 2015, 04:47   #2846
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Originally Posted by VintageSree View Post

1. Do cleats really enhance my pedalling ?

.

It really depends. If you are really into speed racing you can't really do without. If your biking involves a lot of stopping they are a huge pain.

Not sure if you can get them here in India but I like the open toe clips. They can easily be bolted onto existing pedals.Easy stop and go and they still keep your feet or more precisely the ball of your feet in the correct position above the spindle and allow for less slippage.

You can't really compare them to real traditional ones, but I have been riding with them for several decades now and they do me just fine

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/catego...lips-10-35398/
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Old 19th October 2015, 08:23   #2847
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Thanks Freedom and Jeroen for clarifying. :thumbup:
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Old 19th October 2015, 15:41   #2848
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Re: The Bicycles thread

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I have been wrong many, many times, you should try it too some time. It is very enlightening.
The reason for a custom built bicycle is quite a bit more then just your feet touching the ground. In fact when you design a custom bicycle that is usually not relevant at all. All the other parameters are and your feet end up compared to the ground in whatever fashion it so happens to be.


Jeroen
Duh, you still don't get it. Saddle height is only one part of a bike fit. It's a very important part, and it certainly does not need a custom built frame to achieve.

Anyway, out of here.

Being able to reach the ground when seated on the saddle is so wrong that I' surprised to hear it from a 'custom bike builder].
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Old 19th October 2015, 19:02   #2849
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Originally Posted by kumar2007 View Post
Duh, you still don't get it. Saddle height is only one part of a bike fit. It's a very important part, and it certainly does not need a custom built frame to achieve.



Anyway, out of here.



Being able to reach the ground when seated on the saddle is so wrong that I' surprised to hear it from a 'custom bike builder].

If you built a bike, fee to the ground is more or less a result from al the other measurements. When you sit on a standard frame by adjusting the saddle height the most important thing is to get you legs in relation to the peddles correct. That, to your point, might help prevent injury, to my point, if you really bike a lot.

Whatever that saddle position is gets you a certain feet to ground position. Some might want to adjust it a bit. Comfort and feeling safe is as far as Im concerned a big thing too. With smaller wheels, with everything else the same, your feet ground distance would get less too.

I have never said you need a custom built perse. I suggested if you really bike a lot you might want to consider it.

Maybe you should consider frame building too. It looks as if you might pick up a few new insights over the average rule of thumb theories.

Happy cycling!
btw! Im currently in Beijing and they have even more bicycles here then in the Netherlands. Dont see to many people worrying about bike feet. Maybe they all have sore knees, who knows.

Jeroen
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Old 19th October 2015, 19:49   #2850
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Re: The Bicycles thread

I have started cycling really early in the morning on Sundays - like 5am or so. This way I can do a 50kms-60kms spin and come back home by 8am.

Now I need a headlight for the cycle as the sun doesn't come up by 6:30am. I don't want to spend a lot of money, but want something that lets me see the distance such that I can do 25kmph confidently. I have seen the "NiteRider", and that costs around 5k. I am looking for something cheaper - any other suggestions?

Thanks!
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