Team-BHP (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/)

-   Shifting gears (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifting-gears/)

-   -   My experience of getting fired! (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifting-gears/212524-my-experience-getting-fired-9.html)

Thanks for the thread Selfdrive! Getting ‘fired’ do have some negativity attached to it, but once you sail through that experience, the below changes can (or will) happen:

• You end up finding the real value of certain bits you were ignoring in the past. For e.g.; a you will see a positive shift from ‘work is worship’ to ‘family first’
• Some of the things (or people) you felt are important (in the past) no longer matters to you. In other words, your priorities get realigned.
• You tend to see a sense of calmness within yourself, and somehow get to detach yourself from the rat race. You are now a spectator, not a participant.

The above all may sound philosophical, but this is what I am experiencing now after going thru a similar situation few years back.

The signals were there, started as a friendly advise, followed by skewed performance rating, department relocation etc. Probably not a wise decision, but I stayed on to get fired as the market was bad then and the severance package was something I did not want to let go. So I stayed on for the D-Day and when it arrived, handed over my laptop, corp. cards etc., and went for a coffee at the café next door. The coffee was free when I mentioned that its my last day at work in that location, and I won’t be frequenting the café anymore – small perks and nice gesture :)

Stayed unemployed for around 8 months with approx. 6 months’ severance package. It was a bit of a squeeze in expensive Singapore, but then I got to take my girl to school every day (and back), attended coffee mornings with school moms, so it was not all bad :D
When I reflect on it now, I wouldn’t have got those extended hours with my daughter if not for this lay-off period.

Another takeaway from this experience – now I don’t miss any of the school events. Earlier there were far too many rubber ball instances; now it’s all crystal ball events.

The thread has crossed 9 pages and more than 100 posts and counting with a 5 star rating. No doubt, it resonates with most of us here who have directly or indirectly been through the experience. We have had opinions from both employees (majority) and few employers too, who have given their part of the story.

Now my question to you is simple:

Do you wish ill to those who did this to you or accept the godfather logic that its "strictly business nothing personal"?.

There would be cases when our paths would meet again. How would you react if you were to meet the same person who broke the news to you or who you feel was responsible for what happened to you?.

Well, I have been through two companies shutting down and one huge layoff so I think I can answer these questions.

In my case, I have no ill will towards those who did this or informed me of the decision. In fact I am currently employed in a company whose CEO is one of those people. We are still good friends.

The employers in my case tried to save as many as they could and also offered a good severance package to us who had to go look for jobs. In the case of layoff too my manager was looking for an opportunity to send some of us on-site to fend off the layoff period but that did not materialize.

So I would treat it as one of the facts of life and move on. After all its a small world (specially the Indian Software Industry) and paths are bound to cross now and again.

Am late to the party

I have been through this a few times. Sometimes, it’s not ones fault.

First Job

Imagine being an Indian Post-Graduate in an old English factory where folks including senior management barely had a degree. Modernisation was, to them, stick a new machine on the floor, shout and scream at everyone till it works. Production managers spent hours shouting at each other to get things going (I was not part of that but that was the culture). Add to that a terrible divide between managers and workforce.

First role was to get existing machines working. All it needed was to educate the operator on proper maintenance and it also exposed the fact that the input material quality was miserable. First alleged mistake– listening to the workforce.

Next one was a tube cutting machine never worked properly leading to high scrap rates. Problem was the work of art in combining the cutting mechanism with the length measuring wheel. Looked nice but the shock of the cutter disrupted measurements, I got a technician (brilliant but alcoholic) to separate the two and it never happened again. The engineering artists were not happy.

I also eliminated some destructive tests and innovated some other stuff. My problem was I never bragged and kept my nose down.

Then a 500000 pounds production line was due in. I managed to wangle a trip to Sweden to talk to the manufacturer, it was found that the specs were wrong. That cost a few months and pissed the management off but it was better than a DOA project. There were two phases.

Before completion of Phase 1 -the management decided to sack me. They left it to my new boss who was a racist brown-noser to pass the news, telling me some alleged home truths along with the bad news. I was given three months. The Manufacturing Director would avoid me, I walked in him and told him “why?”, he had no answer, only some allegations. I tossed my resignation letter on the spot and told hime "fine but let me complete the project".

It was fun, he could not believe seeing me put in a lot of time and effort when production line was installed. Even crazier was the fact that the machine worked from day 1 onwards. My racist boss kept ranting (I was encouraged to involve the union but the job was not worth fighting for).

The Mayor came to inaugurate, I was told to be on hand to ensure nothing goes wrong. I told the PR girl what to do and walked out of the factory. Its fun when you have nothing to lose. Everything worked!

The Racist kept ranting. I come to office one day and find my replacement at my desk. The racist got me moved to another racist boss Howard, in Production Control. He made me do some menial relabeling of stuff on the production floor. Other engineers kept coming up to me and saying, you should refuse!

I did the opposite, I put on a smart suit and stood on the shop floor doing this task. The workers started cracking jokes – “Most educated person doing the most menial jobs” What happened was the normally invisible Managing Director was showing visitors around and asked me what exactly I was doing, and I told him – “I am an engineer tasked with sticking labels”. He got really pissed. I was taken off the floor and made to clean up some production data. When Howard could see what I could do, his attitude changed.

One day, I was given the task of fetching the Manufacturing Director from the airport. I could have given him a rough time but we talked of other stuff. Next day, he asked me to work on some inventory reduction ideas. I then outlined what could be done at a top level, he was all ears but I regretfully said, my time is up in a month.

Bottomline, much to the racist’s chagrin, I got asked to stay on for a couple of months. I also got some extra pay. Paid for a backpack trip around Australia.

Lesson to be learnt – Keep your integrity and dignity in all situations

Another experience was with a consulting firm. Actually, it was a HR + training firm trying to consult. I was new to India and it was not easy. I managed to get a meaty project where I could apply my skills and get my customer some spectacular savings. After that project, with a new baby, I no longer wanted to travel so much, I was crap in business development, so we mutually agreed to part. I worked a deal where I could take long leave until I got something new. Still in touch with the folks

Lesson to be learnt – If things are not working out – negotiate and focus on Win-Win

Finally in another place of work

This was subtle headcount reduction.

Attempt One – not focused on any individual, my role was moved to the US for “co-location” reasons. Folks in New Mexico and India were impacted. We had 18 months notice but my boss was under pressure to cut me loose earlier. He tried every trick in the book but he got nailed so his boss resolved things. It suddenly noted that my departure would create a major void, by then, someone else asked me to work with him. I ended up having a dual role!

Lesson to be learnt – Know the rules and escalate!

Attempt Two – Culmination of various things

• A Know-it-all under me trying to undermine me
• A Kafkaesque situation, accused of mishandling something, not disclosed what or given the opportunity to resolve it.
• My boss from another region wanted to give his cronies my work. He was also influenced by an expat lady who lied a lot. He did not believe in questioning authority when required.!)
• Put on a Dead-on Arrival project.

In October, the nice HR lady also called me and said we offer a generous separation package. She was generous! It was time up.

I’m extremely happy, the boss is still playing chopsticks, the Know-it-all is still grumbling and the evil lady was sent back to the US.

Lesson Learnt – Be cordial, accept the end and strive for a new beginning. Karma works for everyone

Damn this thread was so close to being me as my current organisation isn’t in a good shape either. I’m running out of options too and worried of the fact what lies before my eyes. You’ve written it what I had in mind. That episode of your daughters and your conversation literally wet my eyes. I’m glad at the end, god and family were there for you, selfdrive.

It’s always better to be an entrepreneur than an employee. Being an entrepreneur, you work for yourself but being an employee you work for others. You’ve just written an excellent thread. It’s an eye opener in terms of preparing ourselves for the worst always and a motivation too for those to show there’s always light at the end of tunnel.

I hope you’ve settled down well and I sincerely pray it remains the same with you and the rest, my friend :) good luck.

Which organisation is this? I think it is high time that employers start getting evaluated just as employees are.

Some of the Indian services companies are worst because they show zero empathy and fire employees only based on short term cost calculations and politics. Employees can get fired for frivolous reasons like storing an mp3 file in hard disk etc. After sucking their blood out when they are employed, these employees wont even be paid enough money to hire a rickshaw back home on the last working day. These companies rarely issue termination notices in print or email but will convey the message orally or indirectly and then harass the employee into quitting. Few of the people had moved the court but civil cases go forever in India. Also, proving something is also difficult.

Personally, I am against regulating IT industry tightly but at the same time there should be enough checks and balances in place to ensure that the system does not degenerate to exploitation and harassment as it is reported today. If not, it could even lead to heightened employee activism which has the potential to cause disruptions to the entire industry. Unfortunately, Government is also setting bad precedence by allowing thugs to run such shops however they want and still giving them tax breaks, free land etc.

https://www.thenewsminute.com/articl...olicies-108615

Interestingly, India Inc is trying to follow the US style related to firing employees except that in US they fire and also hire people without predisposed biases. Salaries are higher in US compared to Japan or Europe primarily because of the inherent risk involved in getting fired any time. It is unusual to fire an employee in Japan and quite difficult to let one go in most of European countries. People will be compensated handsomely when business realities necessitates such action. I feel US is also a win-win model for employees and employers because people can move and find other jobs quite easily. Where does Indian model fit in here?

It's always better to pay off your loans as fast as you can. And never take another loan.
It will only make sense to invest in MFs (or anything for that matter) if one can get profits more than the interest being paid for the existing loans. (which usually never happens for mere mortals stupid: )

So, in my books, pay off your loans asap before going for investments in MFs.

Yes and No. My logic is pay off the loans, if the interest rate is higher than the return you are getting from an MF/investment. If on the other hand, your investment returns are higher than your loan interest rate, invest as much as possible and pay off the loan with your standard EMI.clap:

Hi
First of all congratulations for showing grit in putting up this post. Reading it reminded me of how frail our places are within the corporate structure. We are wheels in the whole mechanism and just like any other part, we remain expendable. Friendships in the corporate and rarely true and very few and far in between. We are all steps for someone else to tread and grow. Downsizing or workforce reduction or any other fancy term are just tools and there to remind us all of our values in an organization. I have been part of downsizing- escaped just about!
I have been part wherein our company division org levels were changed with new leaders being brought in to improve bottom lines. But all these well-paid execs did was show profitability by reducing workforce rather than bringing in new business, in fact business dropped!! We would have been more profitable if they had not hired these hefty paid execs in the first place.

I then had the misfortune of being part wherein the division was sold to another company. This change led us through the same rigmarole just described above. Though there were non-poaching agreements etc, many managed to wriggle their way back to mother company. These included folks I had thought were friends, (:) ) and made promises to help me move back to mother company.... I am still waiting!

All these have made me painfully understand of friendships (sic) in the corporate world and your post drove the nail in further.

Congratulations on your new job and though i don't want to say this, grow, thrive and be Selfish about it.

Thanks for sharing Biju, I did not know of this situation, best wishes to you.

Another key change which I have noted is the change in any ambitions I had. The motivating factor in terms of career path/ ambitions has almost evaporated. Earlier, I had some aspirations and worked towards them. Not all of them translated how I wanted them to, but I was happy with the overall direction. Now, neither do I see any direction nor am I interested in any such topics. All I am interested in is the money it brings me and what is my financial situation looking like. It may not be ideal, but unfortunately this is how it is.

There are two ways to look at this situation. Everyone just says it is not personal. I am not sure if it is or not.
On the other hand, I am still not big hearted enough to forget that someone had a chance to warn me and did not.
While a part of me does not want to care, I must admit that when I heard that a couple of them were axed I attributed it to karma. Did I wish it upon them? Not that I know/ remember of.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I cannot understate how common this is around us. Perhaps as a victim, we are almost embarrassed to share this till someone triggers it.
At my current workplace, no one knows this background.

Thanks for your wishes.
Very aptly said, every other job these days is just about undue stress for minimal returns. Unfortunately some of us get used to the regular paycheck and do not want to risk working for ourselves.

I dont see any benefit in naming and shaming anyone. That was not the intent of sharing the story. It was more to ensure that people remain aware and do not become complacent. A noble thought about the evaluation, but who will evaluate the employers?

My logic is to look at the amortisation schedule. If you are already half or two thirds through, you have already paid most of the interest. At or after this stage in the tenure it makes more sense to invest the money you have elsewhere and run through the end of tenure. Than to preclose so late in the tenure. It also helps people avoid/ stay away from another loan and control other expenses because you have a regular outgo and don't want to add to that.

Thanks for your wishes. I hope no one else has to see this type of situation. As I mentioned earlier the grow and thrive part is not there at all. As of date, it is only about sustaining. Maybe work on building something else and look to get out of this industry at the earliest.

Found this GEM online
https://old.reddit.com/r/india/comme..._in_ibm_india/

No damn difference between IT white collar work and factory blue collar work. Both punch in, both punch out, and both get knocked out by upper management.

On the other hand, start ups feed employees with free canteen perks like a hamster on a running wheel.

What a terrific world we live in.

Well, as I'm typing this it looks like I've just survived the 3rd layoff that's happened since I've joined my present company and the 7th (or maybe 8th) overall in my 18 years in the IT Industry.

Always a downer, but this time in particular because it's affected a colleague with whom I've worked with on different teams, for nearly 6 years. I've just returned after walking with him to the entrance and out of the company where he's spent a decade as a high-performer across teams.

Things I've observed across each layoff:

*There are always signs - hiring freezes, frequent mentions of 're-org', 'new structure', 'domain shifts', etc. at meetings leading up to the event.

*Quite often, your immediate manager is genuinely helpless when it comes to job cuts. BUT I've also seen, in more than one instance, that the people that tend to get laid off during job cuts are those who have historically not seen eye-to-eye with their immediate managers. So, while your manager may not have initiated the actual job cut in the team, that will always come from higher up, when confronted with the choice of whom to let go, human tendencies will always come in to play.

*People who are not flexible are usually affected. That means being willing to shift projects, take up a different domain, role always helps.

*Having said that, be wary of the 'high visibility' projects/roles that you may be tempted to jump into. Something that gets ramped up very quickly based on the whim of some new VP looking to make a name in the company, also tend to wind down pretty quickly when people realize there's no revenue being generated or when that VP moves on or loses interest (as they tend to do, poor guys with their limited attention-spans! <sarcasm>).

*The mantra of 'being slightly overworked and slightly underpaid' never goes out of style when it comes to keeping your job!

*Who gets laid off is based purely on cost/revenue generated numbers. So never think that a job loss reflects on your abilities. (Unless it's a clear performance issue, which is usually communicated earlier.) I've seen several high-performers get cut during each layoff.

*As much as you can avoid it, stay clear of debt. And encourage your spouse to work, support their working lives.

*Work hard/smart, but never let your job take priority over your interests, family and health. It's a job, not your life.

Pretty pertinent video I saw today:

https://youtu.be/jcFN-lQPIb4

1. Don’t get married
2. Don’t have kids
3. Stay frugal
4. Find your hobbies/passion/ikigai.