[speedmiester]

Originally Posted by am1m

This still happens?! In this day and age?! Amazing.

We don't have kids, but even if we did, am pretty sure there is no way my wife would consider leaving her job, and I can't imagine asking her to quit! My mom raised two kids without stopping working, my sister raised her son too and still continues to work. So it is really quite surprising for me to hear that guys actually can get their wives to stop going to work.

And yeah in these expensive and uncertain times, why would a family voluntarily shut off any additional source of income?

More often than you think. Just within my friends circle I know of three people who asked their wives to quit their jobs. As a matter of fact, it was one of the precondition to marriage itself.

My wife and I both work, I have a remote work option hence I don't commute and maybe visit office once or twice a month just to get out of the home. My wife commutes 58Kms every day and takes up 3-4Hrs everyday. Though she has flexible timings, she needs to get into a call at home as well and her day ends at 9 or 9:30PM. She doesn't want to quit despite her long commute and I support her. She has a home loan and wants to be debt free before taking a break from work.
We have a 2 year old who goes to preschool and day care, so in the morning getting him ready and dropping him to school is on me and my father-in-law. Same holds good in the evening when she is on calls from 7-9PM.

We are both building our retirement corpus and have a target in mind when we will hang up our boots and settle down in our hometown. Don't think Bangalore would be a great city to live in about a decade's time, it will be a city to leave by then.

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by am1m

This still happens?! In this day and age?! Amazing.

You bet!

We don't have kids, but even if we did, am pretty sure there is no way my wife would consider leaving her job, and I can't imagine asking her to quit! My mom raised two kids without stopping working, my sister raised her son too and still continues to work. So it is really quite surprising for me to hear that guys actually can get their wives to stop going to work.

Me neither! My wife and I were very clear from even before our wedding that both of us must/will work. Sometimes we face some difficulties especially when someone is ill but those are too small to decide against working.

And yeah in these expensive and uncertain times, why would a family voluntarily shut off any additional source of income?

Exactly my question. I just can't understand.

[Holyghost]

Why do companies force an employee to resign in such an unethical manner. What could possibly go wrong if an employee is terminated on proper grounds after providing some compensation. Wouldn't it be easy for the employee to explain the situation to his next probable employers when he has a proper termination/lay off notice which clearly shows it was not his fault?

I have seen many of my colleagues who were forced to resign. There was fear mongering by the HRs on what all bad things that could happen if they terminate instead of voluntarily resigning and they all fell for it.
Do we know anyone who has stood his ground not to resign and asked the employer to terminate? I would like to understand the consequences. When my time comes, I don't think I would resign and will be requesting the company to terminate my employment. I would happily accept the termination and will move on. At the same time, if the employer play anything unethical with respect to termination, I would not hesitate to go legal.

[rrsteer]

Hi Selfdrive, thank you for sharing your experience. I do concur with your conclusions. My best wishes to you and your family and much love to your daughter. Hope all her wishes come true!

[CarBot]

@Selfdrive - Man, I think you made me think on my unnecessary expenses and also much needed self check on savings and plan to get through situations which we are not prepared for. Thank you for your post. Congrats on landing job and more over Congrats on handling the situation the best possible way. I will take steps on my personal front to make few changes that would help in managing finance better for these situations.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by Romins

Learned from those days, I have a few rules now

Extremely valid and relevant list there, thanks for sharing.
I have resisted hard the urge to splurge and was on track towards repaying my home loan. However, I realised that I had already repaid most of the interest and it is actually more beneficial to continue the loan towards the end of the tenure.

Originally Posted by TorqueKnight

My ex-boss was called on Tuesday and informed that his last day in our organization will be Friday, the same week. Your thread is an eye opener to remind the people to introspect where they are in their organization.

This is indeed scary. At least till a few years ago, client relations or insistence could save some. Nowadays, we seem to have gone past that stage too.

Originally Posted by Guna

I must say that you are somewhat lucky because you were allowed to serve during the notice period. Many companies would pay the salary for the notice period but they would not let the employee in the office premise and block access to all systems once they communicate about 'firing'.

Nothing lucky about it in my opinion. My contract stated either party has to serve the notice and pay for the relevant duration. In fact I would have been happier to stay at home during the notice period as long as they were willing to pay up. I never used company systems for any personal use, so that was no incentive to go there. They needed me increasingly towards the end and requested me to extend my stay by a few weeks. I did have an offer to take up, but even if I did not have anything in hand I would still not have extended beyond my last working day. No exit interview done either.

Originally Posted by psispace

I am happy that you have started taking a healthy route towards this. Exercise is a real stress buster and helps to keep you healthy. Stay a mile away from smoking (make that 100 miles).
Wish you all the best in your new job, and, hope you found that doll for your daughter.

I have been smoke free for 18+ years now, hence working hard to stay that way. I do end up eating junk food to stay away from smoking though.
As for the doll, yes I did find it for her. My son got a bonus gift too for being the caring elder brother.

Originally Posted by JayKis

The rat race makes you think you are some one special until the rug gets pulled from your feet. The second time experience has made me a lot more humbler and be much more nicer to people in general.

Well, the rat race consumes many of us. Earlier in my career, I spent a lot of my working hours worrying about this and comparing with peers etc. Now I feel that even if I am ahead in that race, I am still a rat. That doesn't make me feel very good about myself.

Originally Posted by YakubKC

Lovely closure to your post and yes, family is the most important thing that matters.

In my opinion, the only thing that matters now. I don't stress myself too much now over work timelines or losing a bid.
Deal or no deal, its not my ordeal. End of the month, ka-ching!

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Got lucky and found a job with one of my ex colleagues for a firm I never knew existed, and then I realized how complacent I had become. Lady luck really smiled cos I got a severance and got hired without any break.

Well, giving a severance package is the least that a company can do for asking anyone to leave abruptly. If that were the case, I would have at least some consolation at being thrown out.
In such situations, we end up finding an extra gear that we never knew we had. One that we never use when we are in the comfort zone.

Originally Posted by igniteddriver

You are lucky if you get a good severance package and you are able to land up in a new job quickly. You can at least pay out some part of your liabilities- be it home or vehicle loan.

True, as I just mentioned, a severance package could take care of some of my instalments or perhaps school fees etc. At a critical juncture, I would have to dip in my savings for this. Lesson learnt, now I am building a separate fund for school fees.

[kiku007]

Thanks for sharing such a personally challenging story with the rest of us. Huge respect for you. I wish you the very best.

It's shameful to see how companies are getting away with forced resignations when the employee hasn't broken the law/agreement in any way.

If they want to send permanent employees away, then first and foremost treat the employees with respect and empathy.

Offer them counselling services to handle the situation.

Pay them a good severance package which will give them the time and resources to sort out their life.

And this is not a utopian request. MNCs do this abroad for permanent employees.

The irony is, the wages in India are so low that these things are more relevant for India.

[mayankk]

I can understand the plight, as I have faced the axe a couple of times.

The first was unceremonious, and happened right in my first job. I was asked to come in in the middle of the day and asked to leave by the HR. Not even my reporting manager, who was essentially the business head, was aware that this was going to happen. This was a proprietor firm, and the whims of the owner were supreme. I was still a fairly young, married man staying with my folks, and money was not an issue. It was the rejection that hit the hardest, and took me a good 4-5 months to land another opportunity. It was so bad, that for a week, i used to head out of home at regular hours, and return after spending sometime with clients(ex), or friends. However, this wore off in a weeks time, and I had to tell my folks. Eventually I landed up with a job which has been the most fun one I ever had.

However, "haye lag gayi" , and the proprietor went bankrupt, and last I heard he cannot come back India. He's in London, and has lost every piece of property and each rupee he had in India, which was about 95% of his wealth. Its not who you think he is.

The second time it happened more recently in the largest BPO services provider in India, when the function I was hired for was shut down after 4 years. I was benched and told that I have 3 months to find an internal posting, or get an offer. This was most reasonable, and I used the 3 months to sort out a financier for my own startup. I essentially had an office space to setup the portal, take calls, get the site going, engage an SMO/M agency and everything. When I left that office for the last time after 3 months, I did not hold any kind of grudge, and was instead thankful. It still pinched when I left, but I knew where I was going. That helped. The bandaid was eased off, rather than being ripped like last time.

However, I have learnt that you are not indispensable at any level. Do your job, but dont be owned by it. At this point, I am prepared at all times, because anything can happen at any time.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by Romins

- Keep one year of current salary in Bank FDs -liquid cash.
- Plan all financial matters assuming there is no job after 3years, so no debt
- No credit card - it works easier for me than managing the payments
- No EMIs - don't enjoy tomorrow's prosperity today
- Any hike in salary goes to savings, no upgrade in lifestyle with each year's hike

For people who don't have inherited property, a home loan is sometimes unavoidable.

But a lot of people do not realise the benefits of using credit cards vis-a-vis cash -all expenses are documented and reward points can offer good freebies.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Nothing lucky about it in my opinion. My contract stated either party has to serve the notice and pay for the relevant duration. In fact I would have been happier to stay at home during the notice period as long as they were willing to pay up. I never used company systems for any personal use, so that was no incentive to go there. They needed me increasingly towards the end and requested me to extend my stay by a few weeks. I did have an offer to take up, but even if I did not have anything in hand I would still not have extended beyond my last working day. No exit interview done either.

I understand but you were valued during this one month and it is a good thing. In many cases during the layoffs, HR would call them to inform about the decision and tell them not to come to the office. Employees has to hand over the laptop immediately and has couple of hours to take the personal belongings. Companies do this to prevent the affected employee from possibly spreading negativity in the company. When this happens it affects them badly as it is too abrupt.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by basilmabraham

Anyone who slogs odd hours for the company, avoiding your near and dear ones, please note that they are the only ones who would be with you through thick and thin.

I agree completely. Thankfully, I was never the type of person who sacrificed family moments for official phone calls. When with family, I tried to finish whatever I was doing, checked with wife/ kids if I could take a few minutes and then returned the office calls.
I had imbibed from my earlier supervisor that if it was so critical for me to be expected to answer the phone within a few minutes, then something should have been done about it earlier. In any case, it is someone else's priority and the call as reactive/ corrective action is already too late. When these nincompoops asked me to resign, I had informed him. He tole me very calmly 'you may not realise it now, but it is actually for your good. It does not help to be loyal with such people'
When in official meetings, if we try to answer a personal call we ask to be excused. Is it not common sense to follow the same, if not better protocol with family?

Originally Posted by aveoman19

The above quoted paragraph of yours' made me weak and I cried. You and your wife are wonderful parents and your children are very precious gifts of God.

Thanks sir for your heartfelt wishes. We do as much as we can to teach non material things that we imbibed from our grandparents/ parents.

Originally Posted by ghodlur

All through this time I have realized that self confidence plays a big part in making or breaking you. I believed in myself and kept assuring myself that things will be fine and these are things which need to be done to get back the good days.

Self confidence certainly, perhaps also visualisation. If I am able to visualise doing that job, clearing the interview would be quite simple. Only if we are now able to crack the mystery that is on how to reach the interview stage/ get to a discussion round!

Originally Posted by nishp

Financial crisis at wrong time will permanently damage the growth path of whole family especially children. Of course this applies even more to salaried middle class of India.

In terms of their continuity, it definitely has huge impact. As guardians, we also have the responsibility to keep them informed yet not expose them completely to the negative general behaviour of people.

Originally Posted by longhorn

Most lay offs happen due to wrong decisions taken by the management, but unfortunately it is people down the line who bear the brunt of it.

I could not agree with you more. Most layoffs are reactive actions taken to cover their forays/ gambles that are masked as strategic decisions

Originally Posted by skchettry

As many of the readers have said one can't relax thinking of being a star performer; I have heard many organizations which have been ruthless with some of such people.

Well said. There is no guarantee of continuity in approach by anyone.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

According to my observation, this happens every decade and if you pass through, you're mostly set for another decade.

It happened to me the first time in two decades. I hope the average of a decade does not hold good. I don't think I have it in me to go through this again in the short to medium term.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

My wife and I were very clear from even before our wedding that both of us must/will work.

We thought so too. But a few years ago my wife's health deteriorated so much there was no way she could continue a desk job. In some such situations, we can only mitigate with what is feasible.

Originally Posted by Holyghost

Do we know anyone who has stood his ground not to resign and asked the employer to terminate? I would like to understand the consequences.

Fake cases filed in terms of compliance with existing company policies. I have heard of some cases of harassment being initiated which seemed far fetched. Regardless of the outcome of such cases, there is an immediate humiliation and perhaps some reports are shared with future employers. There could be other actions taken like being moved to an unwanted location or put in an inconvenient shift time or extending working hours unofficially or setting goals such that one is bound to fail. Or even being given some extremely irrelevant project or tasks to be done or being excluded from peer level meetings and training sessions. There are multiple such options exercised, this differs based on organisational culture. I am sure there could also be manipulating of performance appraisals or client feedback.

[srini1785]

Originally Posted by Holyghost

Do we know anyone who has stood his ground not to resign and asked the employer to terminate? I would like to understand the consequences. When my time comes, I don't think I would resign and will be requesting the company to terminate my employment. I would happily accept the termination and will move on. At the same time, if the employer play anything unethical with respect to termination, I would not hesitate to go legal.

Classic example of this would be none other than Mr. Cyrus Mistry of TATA. I think he cited procedural issues with his sacking and was not able to convince the NCLT courts. In most cases , the employee would have to relent. So now you know why PhD holders apply for clerical positions in the Indian railways.

Lack of social security network is what makes this experience traumatic. In the US , the mother of all hire and fire cultures, a strong social security means that you file for unemployment benefits and the state provides you with support. Of course , you need to contribute to the fund while you are working. In conservative cultures like Europe and Japan , firing is totally avoided and detested by the management which fears that such an activity would hamper their future prospects of hiring good talents. This was how it was some 10-15 years back . I don't know if it still persists.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Holyghost

Why do companies force an employee to resign in such an unethical manner. What could possibly go wrong if an employee is terminated on proper grounds after providing some compensation. Wouldn't it be easy for the employee to explain the situation to his next probable employers when he has a proper termination/lay off notice which clearly shows it was not his fault?

I have seen many of my colleagues who were forced to resign. There was fear mongering by the HRs on what all bad things that could happen if they terminate instead of voluntarily resigning and they all fell for it.

It is because of Indian labour law, each state has their own version. It is written mainly to protect the employee and not the employer. Therefore, if an employee is terminated, it can get totally complicated for the company.

https://www.india-briefing.com/news/...ia-14363.html/

Employee can spend years harassing the company in theory. Of course, employee will need deep pockets and lots of time to go against the company which will have an army of lawyers to fight such cases.

Hence, employer goes to any extent to procure a resignation by offering sops or threats. Once you resign, it is a clean break.

[speedguy]

Thanks selfdrive for penning the difficult phase of your life so graciously. I would like to add some experiences from my short professional life of 11 years in Automotive MNC field
1. Work hard, but don't work like you belong there. Only your workstation belongs to the company. You are always replaceable.
2. Maintain strict working hours & give time to your family after the office DAILY. You might think that I give time to family on every weekends, but life is not only about weekends. Small but significant things are happening everyday. Be a part of it.
3. Always try to learn something new apart from your daily work. Small improvement in any other skill than your regular one would be great advantage for you in the longer scheme of things.
4. Maintain a good distance from your superiors. Don't go too close or too far. This will be helpful for them to judge you practically
5. Let you work speak for yourself, not your gossip
6. Last but not the least, stay positive. Job is not the last thing you can do. There is a life beyond all this.

[bullock-Car]

Hi Selfdrive, thanks for opening up a very relevent but not so pleasant subject. You have described the process in a engaging, grounding and guiding manner.
Such difficult times helps us to prioritise the life goals. Todays generation are more likely face uncertainties in all fields of life which is stressful.
Your final words were very succinct and relevent. I agree that work is one of the most important part of our life but life is far bigger. Do not allow work to overshadow the beauty of life, relationships and experiences.