[r_devakumar]

Few links of satellite images which shows the extend of stubble burning.

https://www.facebook.com/tamilnaduwe...70148986545702

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/im...northern-india

[heydj]

I don't think its fair to blame Government alone. Today saw lot of people not follow odd - even scheme. Cars with DL number plates.

At least some government is trying something but No people of Delhi don't want to corporate .
Similarly SC wants people not to burst crackers but No that also falls on deaf ears. The best part my neighbours who I meet sometimes in colony park complain about Delhi pollution and on Diwali night were at forefront of bursting crackers.

We have to realise one thing ones and for all - Delhi or for that matter India will not improve if we ourselves will not improve. Magically waving a wand or saying someone else has to change will not change anything.

As a simple step lets see how many people are ready to give up on Diesel cars? I am sure I will get arguments like how Diesel cars are not that polluting etc.

So I will go to farmers and ask not to burn crops - I am sure they will say ask people of Delhi not to burn crackers or drive so many cars.

So I will go ask people not to bust crackers and I am sure they will say go ban cars and crop burning and not spoil Diwali.

Basically everyone passes the buck. Lets take a pledge all TBHP members of Delhi will:

1. Not use Diesel cars
2. Not burst crackers
3. Not do unauthorised construction activities at our homes.
4. Not throw garbage on roads & teach our loved ones same thing.
5. Not use plastic bags
6. Conserve water & limit shower use and instead used bucket water
7. Use carpooling services
8. Use public transport

If as a small community we can do this then maybe as a country we have some chance. Else keep changing cities and cursing government or wait for some miracle to happen!

[Dhiwakar92]

We live in a country full of mostly unintelligent people, we burst crackers despite the fact that the air we breathe in is pretty unhealthy, we seem to blame cars for pollution and try to restrict private car use when we should be trying to find a way to have farmers avoid burning their crops (not sure if it's crops but I'm pretty sure it's those farmers in neighboring states who are mostly responsible for this problem). Factories in NCR have pollution control standards that wouldn't seem out of place in the 1920's. How do I know this ??? Take a look at the pictures and videos of Delhi.

Honestly, I am not sure how to respond when folks ask me how India is as a country to visit and if I like it there ? I am currently living abroad and I really do have to hang my head in shame. There really isn't much to be proud of. Natural beauty isn't something we should be proud of since we didn't do anything to bring it into existence. Name one Indian city you would suggest a foreign friend to consider relocating to, I bet you can't name any.

The solution here is pretty straightforward and radical. Punish farmers for creating this mess, if it means you can't rely on that vote bank, increase term limits for the ruling party for at least a decade or more so you don't have to factor the next election into every decision you make. We can't continue like this.

Stop pushing though utterly useless private car bans with enough exemptions that the ban loses its purpose. Private car owners are mostly middle class families who pay through their nose in taxes be it income, GST etc. Punishing us over and over again for being the backbone of the economy is making people like me apathetic to the country's plight. Instead, invest heavily in public transport even if it means demolishing slums like they did in China. Public transport needs to compete and win against private transport, it can't be shoved down our throats. Public transport would help with congestion and cleaner private cars and technologies will bring down pollution. Cars do NOT contribute to air pollution as much as people think they do, cities like NYC have more cars and somehow they have better air quality simply because they have cleaner tech and better norms.

Finally, and this one will sting but how about encouraging the growth of other cities ?
Yes, we have way too many people in this country, especially up north which is spilling over and making life difficult for us down south where life was getting better until recently. There are several north Indian cities that could stand to benefit from an increase in middle class population or relocation.

Honestly, I get that complaining here isn't going to solve anything but neither is taking action in India, the solution here is to simply work hard, move out of India and take permanent residence or citizenship in another country as unpatriotic as it may be.

[dragracer567]

The main reason for the air quality becoming so incomprehensibly bad was the law simultaneously passed in Punjab and Haryana to delay sowing of crops to coincide with the monsoons so to relieve pressure on the ground water. However, this meant that harvesting and the stubble burning thereafter coincided with Diwali (when crackers are burst the most) which ended up turning the whole of North India into a gas chamber.

The reasons why these are not being addressed include:

1) Farmers are an important voting bloc. So, neither the congress-led government in Punjab nor the BJP led government in Haryana would want to antagonize them.

2) As for bursting crackers, it's just people's attitude. Unfortunately when the supreme court had banned crackers in the capital, people just took it in a communal angle (such are the times we currently live in).

Honestly, the people brought it upon themselves.

Obviously, vehicles and thermal power plants have a role to play but it's almost impossible for the pollution becoming this bad because of these two factors alone and that's why the odd-even scheme might have a limited effect on the air quality. We should look at electric cars, improving public transportation and shift to renewable energy in the long term but this is not the time for knee-jerk reactions. Perhaps a fee on fossil-fuel cars for entering the city center in cities like Delhi, Lucknow and Mumbai like those in the City of London, Madrid and going to be implemented in Manhattan.

It should be noted that Delhi doesn't even figure in the cities in India with top 10 worst air quality right now since it's the whole of North India that's struggling. This negative press might be a blessing in disguise for Delhiites though as Delhi is the only city with a solid action plan for pollution right now.

A lot of it is explained in this video which is quite informative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_Q8lzDBWI8

[gauravanekar]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Unfortunately, our leadership and our population in general still seem more interested in playing Region Religion rather than dealing with this catastrophe.

If there is any data to directly refute the facts put forth in the following link please share. Otherwise over and out.

https://www.opindia.com/2019/11/nasa...yana-modi/amp/

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by gauravanekar

If there is any data to directly refute the facts put forth in the following link please share. Otherwise over and out.

https://www.opindia.com/2019/11/nasa...yana-modi/amp/

Here are two links

1) https://www.indiatoday.in/india/stor...735-2019-11-01

2) https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/delh...5-jump-2125992

I would also suggest keeping an open-mind while reading the articles in opindia.com as some of the content does seem quite far-right!

PS lets keep this thread apolitical please! As I mentioned in my previous post, all political parties prefer to keep their vote bank intact which is exactly why the Hon. Supreme Court had to intervene. Glad to see the balance of power working!

[superbad]

It is with amusement that I read some of the posts on this topic. Complaining about air pollution, while owning multiple cars at home. Groaning at the air quality index while modding cars to extract that last ounce of extra power, emissions be damned. Grumbling about farmers burning stubble (who are also responsible, I don't deny) while sitting in the back seat of a high powered diesel guzzling chauffeur driven car. I think Oxford dictionary should have "Hypocrisy" as the word of the year. It is so much pertinent to our times. Almost everybody is staying in glass houses these days.

[Gansan]

Chennai skies have turned hazy this morning. I thought it was mist, but it is not. It seems to have reached here from Delhi. Expected to last for about four days before the wind direction reverses.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by superbad

It is with amusement that I read some of the posts on this topic. Complaining about air pollution, while owning multiple cars at home. Groaning at the air quality index while modding cars to extract that last ounce of extra power, emissions be damned. Grumbling about farmers burning stubble (who are also responsible, I don't deny) while sitting in the back seat of a high powered diesel guzzling chauffeur driven car. I think Oxford dictionary should have "Hypocrisy" as the word of the year. It is so much pertinent to our times. Almost everybody is staying in glass houses these days.

Quite amusing, that.
But just for the sake of going forward rather than being "hypocritical", aren't these same cars running on the roads for the other 10 months as well? I would be surprised if someone found out that the owners decided to be extra polluting in these two months. Maybe connect the sump to diesel injectors?
You're assuming a lot of things. Everyone here is cribbing because though we're keeping our puc in check, abiding by the odd even, discarding our 10 and 15 year old cars, getting cng installed, but it is still the farmers who are the sorry figures. They were given incentives, catered to, but the authorities refuse to enforce? Why? Because as it always is, we are the easier ones to beat down. And convenient.
Nothing against the farmers, but I wish someone apart from the white collar, car running, house owning tax payer was brought to book at least once.

[lazy]

Originally Posted by gauravanekar

Please get your facts right before going unnecessarily political.

https://www.opindia.com/2019/11/nasa...yana-modi/amp/

OpIndia is a source of facts!!

Originally Posted by superbad

I think Oxford dictionary should have "Hypocrisy" as the word of the year. It is so much pertinent to our times. Almost everybody is staying in glass houses these days.

Ouch, hurts, but very well said, and be ready for some hate coming your way.

Originally Posted by mayankk

But just for the sake of going forward rather than being "hypocritical", aren't these same cars running on the roads for the other 10 months as well?
.....
Nothing against the farmers, but I wish someone apart from the white collar, car running, house owning tax payer was brought to book at least once.

And unlike the urban multi-car, multi-AC, high energy consuming households, the farmers aren't polluting all through the year and probably create 12 months worth pollution in current 1 month. Evens out I guess.

However, your latter point is pertinent, the blame and responsibility needs to be more equitably spread instead of the white-collars only.

cheers
lazy

[GTO]

Can I lighten the mood up a bit?

BREAKING NEWS

Yoga instructor in Delhi booked for attempted murder for saying:

"Take a deep breath”

[V.Narayan]

Question for the experts - why is stubble burning a practise in North India (Punjab, Haryana & Western UP) but not so in say Bengal or Gujarat or AP or TN? While farmers in poorer states of India can be thought of as poor and deprived the farmers here are by and large not poor or luckless. These are prosperous States. For example Haryana has the highest per capita in India, at ~$3300 / (PPP ~$12,000), amongst the major States if we ignore city states/UTs like Goa, Delhi & Chandigarh. And this despite not having a large metro or mini-metro to skew the mean. It is a state, like Kerala, of many prosperous towns and large villages. Political will is needed here like holding back subsidies to force a change of habit. I spoke to my two drivers both of whom own farms in a neighbouring village. Apparently farmers are collecting the incentives to not burn and then burning all the same!!

[v1p3r]

Some facts:

1. Delhi gets the most attention. It's not the most polluted. Kanpur is worse, for example. They're all toxic though. Children growing up in Delhi have 30-40% less lung capacity than similar children in the West - no athletes in the next gen. Living in Delhi reduces your lifespan by 9 years on average.

2. Data is almost always inaccurate. The 'AQI' reading you get on most free apps uses badly-maintained govt sensors that cost 2 cr each. The US embassy / consulate ones (DEL BOM CCU MAA HYD) are always accurate though.

3. BOM was worse than DEL in January. CCU was worse in Dec 18. DEL has specific geo factors that screw things up. The rest of India is apathy. BOM for example has Deonar, possibly the world's largest and most toxic landfill.

4. South India fares better generally. BLR is relatively clean - on par with EU in summer. MAA is also pretty clean. HYD is not there yet.

5. Diwali crackers make a huge difference. PM (particulate matter) readings in BLR shoot up to 300+ from a regular mean of 30. BLR normally has the advantage of rain just after Diwali (during, this year) to wash away PM.

Built a free website where you can figure out what you're breathing, down to neighbourhood level - www.globalairpollution.com . No branding, no marketing, so hopefully it passes muster here.

Disclaimer - I do this for a living. Started this because my friend / co-founder's kid almost died. And that's in BLR, not DEL!

[srini1785]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

While farmers in poorer states of India can be thought of as poor and deprived the farmers here are by and large not poor or luckless. These are prosperous States. For example Haryana has the highest per capita in India, at ~$3300 / (PPP ~$12,000), amongst the major States if we ignore city states/UTs like Goa, Delhi & Chandigarh. And this despite not having a large metro or mini-metro to skew the mean. It is a state, like Kerala, of many prosperous towns and large villages. Political will is needed here like holding back subsidies to force a change of habit. I spoke to my two drivers both of whom own farms in a neighbouring village. Apparently farmers are collecting the incentives to not burn and then burning all the same!!

Same questions / opinions here. One class of workers are over glamorized while we, in the cities work equally for a earning that is, in some cases, less than what some in rural areas get. Remember, farm income is tax free.

So throw brickbats, hate or whatever, i would not patronize those who do such activities and hide behind a thick blanket.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Question for the experts - why is stubble burning a practise in North India (Punjab, Haryana & Western UP) but not so in say Bengal or Gujarat or AP or TN? While farmers in poorer states of India can be thought of as poor and deprived the farmers here are by and large not poor or luckless. These are prosperous States. For example Haryana has the highest per capita in India, at ~$3300 / (PPP ~$12,000), amongst the major States if we ignore city states/UTs like Goa, Delhi & Chandigarh. And this despite not having a large metro or mini-metro to skew the mean. It is a state, like Kerala, of many prosperous towns and large villages. Political will is needed here like holding back subsidies to force a change of habit. I spoke to my two drivers both of whom own farms in a neighbouring village. Apparently farmers are collecting the incentives to not burn and then burning all the same!!

I'm not an expert in agriculture but here are the reasons based on my understanding:

1) Stubble burning occurs because the stubble is left behind after the harvesting is done by combine machines. I suppose in poorer states like UP, combines are less used and harvesting is done manually. So, there won't be any stubbles left to burn.

2) In Southern states, the primary crops tend to be rice paddy which are harvested manually (to the best of my knowledge) unlike Punjab/Haryana where the primary crop is wheat.

3) Also, while stubble burning does occur in the South, their proximity to the sea dilutes the pollutants with fresh sea breeze. The low lying inland states of Punjab and Haryana unfortunately don't have this luxury since any breeze from Central Asia is blocked out by the Himalayas.