[msdivy]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Question for the experts - why is stubble burning a practise in North India (Punjab, Haryana & Western UP) but not so in say Bengal or Gujarat or AP or TN?

Possible answer - primary crop being wheat and use extensive of mechanised farming.

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

From what I understand, the smog and pollution is due to crop burning and no amount of banning of crackers will alleviate this.

The solution to stubble burning is to find a machine which will cut the crop close to the ground.

[ValarMorghulis]

Originally Posted by msdivy

The solution to stubble burning is to find a machine which will cut the crop close to the ground.

There is already a machine in the market which can be retro-fitted to cut the stalk at a lower height but that is an additional expense which the farmers loathe. Also, farmers in Punjab, Haryana are demanding Rs.500/kg of stubble from the government in lieu of which they'll stop burning it and instead deposit it to the govt. depots.
Blackmail basically. But hey, Jai Javan, Jai Kisan, marne jaaye common tax paying insaan.

[Pancham]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Built a free website where you can figure out what you're breathing, down to neighbourhood level - www.globalairpollution.com . No branding, no marketing, so hopefully it passes muster here.

Disclaimer - I do this for a living. Started this because my friend / co-founder's kid almost died. And that's in BLR, not DEL!

Awesome initiative. Just one question, where do you get the pollution data, as in the source?

[DigitalOne]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Question for the experts - why is stubble burning a practise in North India (Punjab, Haryana & Western UP) but not so in say Bengal or Gujarat or AP or TN? ......

Apparently farmers are collecting the incentives to not burn and then burning all the same!!

This last year's article from the Hindustan Times explains the issue very succinctly. Highlights:

The stubble burning phenomenon in Haryana and Punjab is linked to three unlikely factors:
the (relatively) large size of landholdings of farmers in these states; the (consequent), high level of mechanisation; and, only in Punjab, a water conservation law that shortens the harvest window, HT’s reporting has shown.

The use of mechanized harvesters, which result in loose straw, is one of the key reasons....

The harvesters are designed to shave off the grainy part of paddy, leaving loose straw in their wake. Farmers find it cheaper to clear the residue by burning.

A 2009 water-conservation law in the state narrows down the paddy-sowing window to cut down on irrigation rounds. Consequentially, the window available for harvesting paddy is also limited to 15-20 days. “This means over 2 million farmers all grow similar varieties of paddy and harvest them all at the same time,” Singh said. The area under paddy has also steadily grown because it is by far the most profitable crop.

Originally Posted by dragracer567

2) In Southern states, the primary crops tend to be rice paddy which are harvested manually (to the best of my knowledge) unlike Punjab/Haryana where the primary crop is wheat.

Not true anymore. Farmers in Haryana and Punjab grow paddy in the monsoon, and then switch to Wheat for the Rabi season.

[Miyata]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Built a free website where you can figure out what you're breathing, down to neighbourhood level - www.globalairpollution.com

I have used the Airveda app in the past and it seemed to also have information provided through some embassies. Most of them though appear to get the AQI information from the central pollution control board. I do suspect the data from the board and would not have much confidence in the numbers they provide.

Any articles/information on where you source the data from? Do you obtain the concentration of various pollutants to derive yourself the AQI values or do you adopt the AQI values obtained from various sources?

Is there also information on AQI with altitude?

I guess the questions are getting too specific and a bit research-like, but if you are doing this for a living, you might have more to share (circumstances permitting, of course) -

1) Any specific indoor plants that are known to improve the indoor AQI?

2) Specific masks that may actually be beneficial when venturing outdoors?

3) Any neighborhood vegetation threshold dependence on local AQI?

Thanks.

[AGwagon]

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

There is already a machine in the market which can be retro-fitted to cut the stalk at a lower height but that is an additional expense which the farmers loathe. Also, farmers in Punjab, Haryana are demanding Rs.500/kg of stubble from the government in lieu of which they'll stop burning it and instead deposit it to the govt. depots.
Blackmail basically. But hey, Jai Javan, Jai Kisan, marne jaaye common tax paying insaan.

Love the quote.. who came up with that?

The stubble has many uses, the most value accretive in Rs/Kg being used in making disposable table ware after pulping it. Wherein pulp sells for only Rs. 40-60/Kg. So you can understand the maths.

Basically the farmer doesn't pay tax, has huge acreage of land, gets MSP protection and benefit on their produce other than countless other subsidies, and now need another subsidy to dispose Stubble which is a result of them becoming rich and being able to adopt mechanisation. What a screwed up circle don't you think?

Also the subsidies and schemes are the single biggest window for the Babus to make money, this is the single largest Vote bank for the Political Parties (one MSP / Farmer Loan Waiver scheme can sort your voter dilemma Vs urban population need many demands of infrastructure which actually require work to be done after collecting taxes). So isn't it a Win -Win for everyone except the urban-dwelling, tax paying (white/blue Collar & SME owner) population.

Well they will never go on Dharnas, no issues then!



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[superbad]

Originally Posted by mayankk

Nothing against the farmers, but I wish someone apart from the white collar, car running, house owning tax payer was brought to book at least once.

I reiterate, I don't absolve the farmers & also agree that the majority of pollution at this time of the year is probably due to crop burning. However, what about the rest 10 months of the year when our cars continue running unabated? It's not like the air quality improves drastically. I daresay Delhi's AQI remains 150+ year round, which is "Unhealthy" & worse category. Are farmers to be blamed for that as well?
I fully agree that some regulation with regards to crop burning needs to be made & strictly enforced asap. But in the meantime, let us look into the mirror & ask - is that all that is to be blamed?

[maddy42]

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

There is already a machine in the market which can be retro-fitted to cut the stalk at a lower height but that is an additional expense which the farmers loathe. Also, farmers in Punjab, Haryana are demanding Rs.500/kg of stubble from the government in lieu of which they'll stop burning it and instead deposit it to the govt. depots.
Blackmail basically. But hey, Jai Javan, Jai Kisan, marne jaaye common tax paying insaan.

True there is a bale making machine which is supposed to pick the hay and turn it into hay bales. This machine is not used by the farmers and labor is a problem due to the high prices involved.

Also the harvester can cut lower, its just the operator or owner feels it can damage his machine, thats why he cuts the grass higher. Everyone is trying to cut costs and no one cares for the environment.

Harvester

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wih6A7VFgvM

Bale making machine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZH2M4ghW7g

Bale loader

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkXY4QxIRZ4

Lastly most of the farmers are not some high net worth politico, but smaller than 10 acres. The equipment used for harvest is rented, so there is the costs involved. Best bet is the govt instead of providing a subsidy, is to promote bale machines and rent it out in the areas where they burn stubble. Labor problem is going to increase and these rentals will help the job scene for a lot of boys. You improve the scenario in rural areas too. But which babu will want to do that, when all they care about is make a %age cut and live life on the tax payers money.

Maddy

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by Pancham

Awesome initiative. Just one question, where do you get the pollution data, as in the source?

Combination of satellite imagery, international govt data, weather and met data, open source data, local data, and we have a network of sensors. We use machine learning to make sense of all of it.

Originally Posted by Miyata

Any articles/information on where you source the data from? Do you obtain the concentration of various pollutants to derive yourself the AQI values or do you adopt the AQI values obtained from various sources?

Is there also information on AQI with altitude?

I guess the questions are getting too specific and a bit research-like, but if you are doing this for a living, you might have more to share (circumstances permitting, of course) -

1) Any specific indoor plants that are known to improve the indoor AQI?

2) Specific masks that may actually be beneficial when venturing outdoors?

3) Any neighborhood vegetation threshold dependence on local AQI?

Thanks.

This ought to answer a lot of your questions - http://blog.getambee.com/ - it's a bunch of articles we've put together over time. Feel free to PM me if you want more information. Always happy to share - we're in the battle of our lives and it's now or never.

AQI is a made up index (your qs seem like you know that already) and the weightages differ from one country to another. We deal in the raw data, and anyone can build AQI on that.

Plants do not help. Only thing they have is large surface area so PM and dust settle on them. That's it. Yes, forests are a CO2 sink but do nothing for PM.

Good news, NCR is cleaning up. Bad news, it's because of winds blowing south, so currently BLR is worse than GGN. Like I said, it's not a Delhi problem. It's an everywhere problem.

I could share some health risks if anyone's interested. The numbers are beyond scary - think genocide.

[racer_ash]

The stubble burning and the pollution from Northern India is making its way to the south too as per this news article.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/71929648.cms

No wonder the area I live in has seen a spike in PM 2.5 level over the weekend.

So now this is becoming a pan India problem.

[ramzsys]

Bangalore's pm 2.5 levels reached a apocalyptic 805 last night.


Now, the mandatory 'feel good' statement: Hope the air quality improves.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

I could share some health risks if anyone's interested. The numbers are beyond scary - think genocide.

Yes, please, please do.

Better to know the facts and reality.

I have very little hope that there will be any significant, large-scale changes in our country/cities and that there will be any improvement overall. But at least those of us who care about our personal well-being can make some changes to our personal commute, life, location.

[AirbusCapt]

Shocking to say the least. Stubble burning farmers are holding ransom to a nation's health and yet we do nothing. I spent a weekend in Delhi on a layover, and I witnessed first hand how I felt there. Inside an AC room with air filters on, I had a runny nose, burning eyes and a constant cough.

[RM Motorsports]

In India poor farmers are paid like 'peanuts'. Its the middle men who take away all the cream. To cut & remove the stubble, labor is required which the farmers cannot afford. Hence easiest way to get rid of stubble is burn it.

There are also farmers who are super-duper rich too, but majority of them are on poorer side. Again in contract farming if the produce is not upto buyers mark, everything is rejected or bought at dirt cheap price.

There is lot of poverty in India. Once winter set in, its get very cold in North and poor people will start burning wood, coal etc to keep themselves warm. This too creates a lot of pollution. I have seen this problem in Bombay itself, if weather gets little chilly, late nights one can see most of the building watchmen start burning whatever they find around, broken branches, twigs, leaves etc.

[Miyata]

Originally Posted by AirbusCapt

Shocking to say the least. Stubble burning farmers are holding ransom to a nation's health and yet we do nothing. I spent a weekend in Delhi on a layover, and I witnessed first hand how I felt there. Inside an AC room with air filters on, I had a runny nose, burning eyes and a constant cough.

Perhaps if you were to spend some time with them, may be get to know a few of them personally and understand the circumstances under which they have to make various life-choices, I have a feeling, you may soften your views.