[hserus]

Originally Posted by vibbs

I don't see this discussion going anywhere.
We have seen this in the Vegan thread as well. But I do hope that with all the fighting confined to this one, that can be used to share some good Veg recipes!

That said, I love my beef and there is no argument in the world that can make me change my stance. Human beings were meant to eat meat and I will continue eating my steak!

I agree the thread has run its course and moreover is going to get coloured by whether or not individual posters have strong feelings against meat eating or not. This isn’t a recipe for a reasoned discussion and I for one won’t participate further in this thread.

Though for the meat eaters - I have this food trip I’ve worked out of legendary non veg restaurants throughout interior TN that if other bhpians are interested we might just do it sometime next year. If there’s enough interest maybe in a shifting gears thread or over PM I will put an itinerary together.

[CarNerd]

Originally Posted by trek

Over centuries we have evolved into a civil society and now use cell phones, fly in planes, live in temperature controlled environments which earlier was not even in anyone's imagination. We cannot use the excuse of traditions and culture to justify our eating habits, that would be then just peer pressure from dead people!

It is because we have evolved that we are facing the current climate crisis. It is because we wanted to lead a comfortable life that we invented so many things. We keep destroying nature to make those things. Our phones and gadgets are endangering the planet. E-commerce & food delivery is causing plastic pollution. Aviation & other transportation contributes about 21% of global emissions. Coal & Electricity are the biggest culprits. 20 Fossil fuel companies can be directly linked to more than one-third of all greenhouse gas emissions in the modern era.The Dams that we have built are declining the health of river systems. Modern construction contributes 11% of global emissions. Even the Fashion industry emits more carbon than flights and shipping combined. All of these would have been unimaginable earlier.

We can do anything with the Earth but let's not kill the animals right?

[vinya_jag]

Originally Posted by AZT

We are conveniently missing the Elephant in the room. We can demonise beef all we want but what used to happen is that once bovine cattle outlive their milk giving prime, they were slaughtered for food and the farmer also gets compensated.

Now with slaughtering being banned, these cows which add no value continue producing CO2 and causing much more damage than the US because atleast there the outcome is good production which also leads to economic benefit. Here it’s more of keeping cattle up by continuing to feed them. What’s worse is that poor farmers can’t tend for these and purposely just release them to go free.

Once you keep religion out of it, the solution is simple, kill cattle after they don’t give milk. Banning beef is just virtue signalling for the environment unless you can end lives if cattle that aren’t adding value any more.

Exactly. We are using an Americanized statistic here in India.
http://statisticstimes.com/economy/s...n-of-india.php
From this I see, that 5% of our economy is Animal husbandry. I guess, after agriculture, Animal husbandry is possibly the second biggest employer in our country. I know of families that have survived harsh drought years, just by selling milk. I know a friend, who proudly says that his cattle gave him education.

Are we talking about taking all that out of the equation? Will we stop drinking milk? Will we stop consuming gree/ paneer/ curd/ cheese?

Look at what, we are trying to take away:
https://www.karnataka.com/industry/t...milk-products/

I don't think we waste as much land as the US, to grow food for lifestock. Beef eaters, stay happy. You are not the main culprit in this big debate.

[am1m]

I'd like to turn vegetarian, not because I want to save the environment, but because I can see first hand how chickens are transported and kept in our cities. I have no issues with eating animals, I believe humans were meant to be meat eaters. I guess 'free-range' options might be worth looking into (if they are really free-range as claimed). Any pointers would be welcome.

I believe that we have too many people on the planet already, but certainly believe that having or not having children is a very personal choice and both choices are to be respected. I'd even go so far as to say being a parent is admirable. (Just to clarify, I'm not a parent - again not because I want to save the world but because I think it would be too much work and I'm not really that fond of children. )

But when someone thinks it's ok to comment on other people's dietary choices based on environmental impact, then they should also be ok when the environmental impact of their life choices are discussed. (Like the kind of car they drive, the size of their family, etc.) Especially when there are figures that show that certain life choices have a much greater environmental impact than diet.

Finally, I think it would be good to be aware that a lot of what we think is correct or good is simply a matter of the way we were raised (I'm talking about the issues that are debatable of course, not the things that are obviously right or wrong legally ). That is a blind spot we all have.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by dark.knight

plus a man and a woman always think in terms of forwarding their genealogy.. ... 99.99% think in terms of bloodline and genetics.

The true fault lies in the capitalist, maniacal, money grubbing society which has made education much more expensive, food, clothing and shelter much more expensive and results in more wastage of resources than ever because the rich have access to 90% of all facilities and the poor have no scope with the remaining 10%.

Creating and ensuring the survival of ones own “genetic imprint/ lineage” yes - thats probably THE biggest motivating force in procreation.
I havent somehow got this desire to perpetuate the lineage.

Money Grubbing society and things becoming frightfully expensive - absolutely Yes. Very sad but unfortunately we have to live with this and it is only going to get worse as more and more humans overpopulate the poor planet.

[anb]

In India, crop burning is a major contributor to air pollution. I think it's better to stop consuming products like barley, rice, wheat and sugar etc to reduce the amount of crop burning and there by pollution to some extent.

[landcruiser123]

It is very well known that meat industry is one of the biggest source of GHGs, but no one talks about that while talking about the steps to tackle climate change.

Also, converting the land used for animal farming to crop land for human consumption should result in enough capacity to feed double today's population.

[ajmat]

A long time ago, meat was sourced locally. Farmers produced exactly what was needed. This put a balance in terms of cattle population. Beef was a luxury and meant for the Sunday lunch meal.

Along comes livestock farming on a large scale, add to that the advent of fast food and processed where meat prices are driven down though economies of scale, add to that an increasing population and the balance is skewed the wrong way.

As for me, I eat red meat only on weekends or as a treat. I have a small portion of chicken or fish in the evening. I am not a compulsive non veg person.

[akhil_007]

Apart from production, cooking meat products also consumes lot of fuel/gas. I have never heard or seen a vegetarian food taking more than 1 hour to cook. Likewise, a non veg preparation at home generally takes 2-3 hours to cook, is what I have heard. Carbon footprint is easily 3x there as well

[bblost]

Originally Posted by akhil_007

Apart from production, cooking meat products also consumes lot of fuel/gas. I have never heard or seen a vegetarian food taking more than 1 hour to cook. Likewise, a non veg preparation at home generally takes 2-3 hours to cook, is what I have heard. Carbon footprint is easily 3x there as well

This is simply because most people don't know how to cook.

I make some of the juiciest chicken and never marinate it.
The secret is a small digital thermometer, which I use to monitor the temperature.
70C is just about the right temperature.

For mutton, the pressure cooker does it super easy.
Fish can literally cook in the steam from the gravy and people unnecessarily destroy its delicate texture by overcooking.

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by bblost

This is simply because most people don't know how to cook.

I make some of the juiciest chicken and never marinate it.
The secret is a small digital thermometer, which I use to monitor the temperature.
70C is just about the right temperature.

For mutton, the pressure cooker does it super easy.
Fish can literally cook in the steam from the gravy and people unnecessarily destroy its delicate texture by overcooking.

So true. None of my dishes take more than 45 mins imcluding all the chopping and cutting of onions, tomatoes etc.

If you cook chicken in a pressure cooker, its essentially the same time as a sambar for eg.

I make medium rare / medium beef steaks on stove top in around 12 - 16 mins depending on the steak size.

So true about fish as well. It cooks faster than many vegetables. Ditto about prawns as well

[voyageur]

It's ironic that this thread came up in T-bhp and I least expected it.

I was also doing my own research on this topic for another reason, and this was after Lewis Hamilton came out with some Social Media posts. Eating habits are extremely personal and people get too defensive about it.

I'd give up meat without a second thought (don't eat meat that much anyway) if that saves petrol cars. Also, I'd happily give up meat just to stop the ill-treatment of these live-stocks and farm animals. I believe it's time that we treat animals that we consume in a respectful way, which will, in turn, better our health.

Automobile industry takes all the credit for global warming. It's high time that the food industry gets its due credit.

My 2 cents!

[Red Liner]

Just as a social experiment:

How many of you are open to rearing your own (no farm labor) cattle, chicken, and goat and killing them 'yourself' (no farm labor) for food? Which means you do all processing farm to table (or rather embryo to your gut).

OR going out hunting for your own food? You can choose either or a combination. No problem. Just give your reasons.

Please remember the above will be your full time occupation and will probably consume the greater part of your day to ensure food on the table throughout the year.

It will not be a business to resell poultry or beef. Only self consumption.

Lets forget about whether your current conditions allow it or not, this is more psychological.

It will be very interesting to see your responses.

Once we compile a few, I will share something very thought provoking.

[bblost]

I would love to live in the American wilderness and hunt Moose.

One of those will feed my family of four for almost a year.
All I will need is a couple of deep freezers to store the meat.

[GutsyGibbon]

My $0.02. In my interactions with dairy farmers in the rural parts of my county, I have come to realize how much love and respect they have for cows. The fact that they kill and eat them, doesn't make them evil monsters that the vegans make them to be.

I feel the same way with the plants and fruits I grow. I love them dearly, i take care of them, look at them every day, kill any bug that attacks them, and enjoy harvesting and eating my plants, without wasting one tiny bit.

In my interactions with the Masai tribesman of Kenya who only eat beef, (and no other meat), they drink cow blood, they have nothing but divine respect for the cows. They owe everything to the cow. The number of cows a man owns determines his ability to get married. They are the kindest, nicest people out there.

We tend to hold what our mothers fed us with the highest regard. If my mother had fed me cows blood for good health, I would think of it very differently. As a south Indian vegetarian, I had several notions about people who eat beef/meat. The last 2 decades living away from home, has changed my perspective immensely on things. Yes, I have good friends who hunt and eat their kill, yet they are loving caring people.
It is not for people who have no place for beef in their culture to say what suits other cultures that hold beef/hunting/meat the highest regard.