[locusjag]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Birds, cats, dogs....
.....

Can we let the dogs, cats, pigeons etc be, in this conversation? I am not claiming that what is said is all wrong, but there has not been any suggestion at all that they are involved in spreading covid19 between humans.

You never know sir. I'm hinting at what could have happened in the Wuhan wetmarket and this is what happened in the past viral outbreaks which originated from China as well - when different species come in contact with one another, viruses get a chance to intermingle and mutate into something entirely novel.

In fact, the Swine Flu was a result of viruses from migratory ducks getting into pigs on a farm! The pigs originally had a normal influenza strain in them and the rest is history.

[DigitalOne]

Coronavirus vaccine from Moderna shows early signs of viral immune response

NEW YORK : An experimental vaccine from Moderna Inc. showed promising early signs that it can create an immune-system response in the body that could help fend off the new coronavirus, according to sampling of data from a small, first human trial of the inoculation.

Link

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by locusjag

You never know sir. I'm hinting ... ... ...

Yes, locusjag, you are hinting. It's like what the marketing people call FUD... fear, uncertainty and doubt. But it is no basis for concrete suggestions. Spread this sort of thing, and before we know where we are, people will go out and kill all the pigeons, and they will think they are doing the right thing, but won't know why or what the authority was. Of course, there wasn't any.

I don't think that what (might have) happened in a Wuhan market with bats and pangolins has any bearing on our dogs, cats, squirrels, rats, etc etc.

I'm suggesting that hinting is not such a good idea.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

people will go out and kill all the pigeons, and they will think they are doing the right thing, but won't know why or what the authority was. Of course, there wasn't any.

To say that there is no basis in what I'm saying simply flies in the face of the core work that epidemiologists do day in and day out. There's a good reason why epidemiologists haunt farms and wetmarkets to spot the next big outbreak. I still wouldn't mind cats, dogs and other animals - but birds are the worst spreaders of infections. That's backed by data.

Yes, one shouldn't go out and kill all pigeons. But I'm not going to have them nesting in my bathroom's window either. It's frightfully unhygenic, besides.

[lapis_lazuli]

I don't know if this is an overnight money making scheme or a real discovery: MODERNA seems to have come up with a vaccine that produced antibodies in ALL 45 test subjects.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/18/mode...ine-trial.html

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by locusjag

... still wouldn't mind cats, dogs and other animals - but birds are the worst spreaders of infections. That's backed by data... .

We humans are a strange creatures! We "cull" millions of chickens to prevent the spread of avian flu, but we don't want to mention dogs and cats because we think they are "cute". Dogs and cats have been infected by the same covid19 virus and have been known to spread them - the media is strangely silent about these potential reservoirs of the virus. Obviously scientists know about the relationship between mammals and humans, otherwise there would be no point in using horses, llamas and monkeys to test vaccines and antibodies. Must be that special thing we have for dogs and cats.

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Spread this sort of thing, and before we know where we are, people will go out and kill all the pigeons, and they will think they are doing the right thing, but won't know why or what the authority was. Of course, there wasn't any.

Sir, we have history there! Ask the now extinct passenger pigeon - there were 3 billion of them once apparently. Or the American bison - nearly wiped out from 60 million plus.

In a country like ours where even human life is so worthless, empathy towards animals is a foreign concept.

Originally Posted by mvadg

Dogs and cats have been infected by the same covid19 virus and have been known to spread them - the media is strangely silent about these potential reservoirs of the virus.

Interesting, all the articles I've read are to the contrary ie the virus can spread from humans to dogs / cats but not the other way around. Mind pointing out any studies?

Originally Posted by mvadg

Must be that special thing we have for dogs and cats.

Because they are. Dogs were the first domesticated animal and the first to be used as a companion. Studies conclusively prove that dogs & cats evoke the same endorphin secretions in us as children do. We've evolved to like them. A bit different from livestock animals. I get your point though, but its not so strange if you think about the "special" relationship we've had with dogs for at least 30 thousand years.

[greenoval]

Dogs and cats have been infected by the same covid19 virus and have been known to spread them - the media is strangely silent about these potential reservoirs of the virus.

Dogs and cats spreading coronavirus? Are you sure? Yet to come across any report mentioning the same. Even the two-three rare cases of Covid reported in pets are 'pet-parent to pet' transmission and not the other way round. There have been multiple instances of many pet parents abandoning animals due to such misinformation, so kindly refrain from making statements based on inconclusive information available.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by mvadg

. Dogs and cats have been infected by the same covid19 virus and have been known to spread them

Where have they been known to spread them???
Whatever I can find would require them being wary of us to avoid catching this.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by greenoval

Dogs and cats spreading coronavirus?

In a NYC zoo, big cats have gotten it from their human handlers. And I've seen articles about pets getting it from humans. But there's no cause to believe we get it from them. There has been no such news that I've seen.

Look, I was the one who brought up the whole animals-to-humans thing within the past few hours here. So I'll reiterate - birds (and bats, which I didn't mention before) are super spreaders of infections (since they get around a lot). I am alarmed by a pigeon population explosion where I live. That's it. I never said anything about culling any animals (not even birds) - and least of all felines or canines.

PS: You'll be surprised by how much time epidemiologists spend combing caves for bats; they routinely monitor them for novel viral strains. For some reason, bats collect many different viruses like nobody's business and their bodies are thought to serve as a petri-dish for mutations...

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by locusjag

PS: You'll be surprised by how much time epidemiologists spend combing caves for bats; they routinely monitor them for novel viral strains. For some reason, bats collect many different viruses like nobody's business and their bodies are thought to serve as a petri-dish for mutations...

True. Irony is in doing that we may have contributed to 90%+ of their population being wiped out in North America for some species.

I read somewhere that even though they handle viruses well, fungi mess them up. As seen above.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by locusjag

To say that there is no basis in what I'm saying simply flies in the face of the core work that epidemiologists do day in and day out. There's a good reason why epidemiologists haunt farms and wetmarkets to spot the next big outbreak. I still wouldn't mind cats, dogs and other animals - but birds are the worst spreaders of infections. That's backed by data

Originally Posted by mvadg

We humans are a strange creatures! We "cull" millions of chickens to prevent the spread of avian flu, but we don't want to mention dogs and cats because we think they are "cute".

There is no evidence whatsoever that any of the creatures mentioned are on any way involved in the the transmission of this disease. It is red herring. It is an irrelevant suggestion/argument. Let's please forget it.

I have already.

[download2live]

Will we ever be sure that it was not a man made virus?

China quickly accepted that it originated in Wuhan wet markets. This is an outlier !! Even seasoned China observers were surprised at this admission. Usually the regime is loathe to accept any thing which puts them in bad light.

Then the market was quickly shut down and hosed down completely to remove all the traces. What happened to the samples taken from the animals there?

The Wuhan virus research lab already had many lapses in bio-security. To the extent that visiting U.S. Embassy officials sent two official warnings back to Washington about inadequate safety at the lab, which was conducting risky studies on coronaviruses from bats. Link.

SARS virus (after it was discovered) has infact escaped the labs working on it, TWICE !!!

If there was nothing to hide why China is bristling at the calls for independent investigations into the origins of this virus.

Already it has declared trade war on Australia for raising the need for an independent investigations.

I think it will be like Chernobyl disaster. Intial cover up is going on. Whether closure will come is diffcult to say given the iron fist control on the information by the regime.

[mvadg]

Here's a very guarded article about dogs and cats catching the virus and cats spreading it to other cats.
NEWS 01 April 2020 Coronavirus can infect cats — dogs, not so much

Cats can be infected with the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, and can spread it to other cats, but dogs are not really susceptible to the infection, say researchers in China.

The results suggest that cats should be considered in the effort to control COVID-19, but that they’re not a major factor in the spread of the disease

Here's another one about original SARS-COV
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3323218/

This is why I said, that the media is strangely silent about cats and dogs. Granted that they are not spreading them like humans, but research is very limited. Cats are reservoirs and shed the virus. When we discuss bats, pangolins, civets, camels and their potential to spread the virus, I see nothing wrong in bringing up dogs and cats to the mix. It's my belief that we have a blind spot when it comes to pets, and rational people need to consider the possibility of them being intermediaries. The press and the "authorities" lied to us about masks, so I don't trust them completely.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

There is no evidence whatsoever that any of the creatures mentioned are on any way involved in the the transmission of this disease.

That's not true at all! Nope.

Let's please forget it.

I have already.

I agree though. There's nothing to be done about any of it, so... Moving on. Besides, I don't want to be stuck on this sole point forever. Life is swirling around me and there's so much happening