[sunilch]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Here in Germany, the concerned authorities have recommended those who have taken the first jab of the Astra Zeneca vaccine to switch to an MRNA vaccine for the second dose after a gap of 6-12 weeks if I read it right. While this doesnt come with any backing or research as per the article, is it a good idea to do it? My Grany was one of the very few who got Covishield in the family, while my parents and other grandmom got Covaxin. Hence I am wondering if we should consider getting her Covaxin as her second dose. Maybe this blood clot theory is hyped, but I am sure such things are scrutinised far deeply in the EU and USA compared to India given the variety and volume of our population.

India too has not recommended anywhere getting the same vaccine both the times. In fact the authorities had made it clear that you may get whichever is available and so it may not be the same both the times.

But this is applicable only for Govt vaccination centers. If you are going for private, you are free to choose whichever you want.

[ottocycle]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Here in Germany, the concerned authorities have recommended those who have taken the first jab of the Astra Zeneca vaccine to switch to an MRNA vaccine for the second dose after a gap of 6-12 weeks if I read it right.

From my reading on different places, seems like AZ and mRNA, both work similar way (spike proteins) but their delivery method is different. And therefore they are actually compatible. This could be one of the reason Germany is saying to switch to mRNA.

However, Coaxin has different mechanism, where I can't comment much.

[Zen2001]

Regarding the (unnecessary) panic over Remdesivir - Remdesivir not only option against Covid, can save lives without it: Doctors.

These are professional opponents of well known physicians, intensivists, infectious diseases specialists concluded from what is actually observed in ground zero. As I was saying before, limited use, and limited benefit. Just unnecessary panic. Hope other doctors take a cue and restrict "blanket prescribing". Patients relatives pressuring for a certain treatment (of limited and doubtful efficacy) is even more ridiculous.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...edium=Referral

[vivek95]

Oh just learnt that at some hospitals, fully stable patients insisit on Remdesivir because their insurance companies demand it. This is how pathetic the state of affairs are. Doctors and hospitals are blamed unnecessarily because of these cheap motives of insurance companies. And people here are gauging the intensity of Covid-19 based on media reports of shortage of Remdesivir and what not. Inside story is different, me or Doctor @Zen2001 simply don't say this Covid is hyped !! Yes its truly affecting some people, I empathise with them, but so is every disease. Lets take Covid seriously but not blow things out of proportion and disrupt many lives and economies in a long run !

[Su-47]

Originally Posted by Zen2001

As I was saying before, limited use, and limited benefit. Just unnecessary panic. Hope other doctors take a cue and restrict "blanket prescribing".

For us laymen, when a doctor writes something on a prescription, we assume that it is a "must have" and do everything in our power to arrange it. When it comes to the question of life and death, most of us would rely on the opinion of the treating physician over what we have read on the internet anyday. So, yes, if it's efficacy is questionable, the medical fraternity needs to limit prescribing it to cases where it is useful. If they don't, patients' relatives will keep running around town to do whatever they can to arrange the drug - after all, this is all they can do to help.

Originally Posted by vivek95

Oh just learnt that at some hospitals, fully stable patients insisit on Remdesivir because their insurance companies demand it.

This is disturbing, and needs to be stopped. Don't know how, but needs to be stopped!

[saket77]

Only if they could ramp up some medical infrastructure this briskly:

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/luck...ndtv_topscroll

[AZT]

Originally Posted by Su-47

"Kahin ye Ram-Daas-Veer to nahin hai?"

This gave me a good chuckle. But jokes apart it's great to see the Taxi driver come through. Small retailers and Cab/rickshaw drivers are the worst hit in a lock down.

[Zen2001]

India's figures as of yesterday - 2 lakh cases, 1000 deaths. Easily assuming untested cases (asymptomatic & untested mildly symptomatic URI) - easily 10 times this number (could be even a multiple of 100) - makes the ACTUAL figure of infections 20 lakhs in that day. Coming to deaths - more difficult to hide, agree? Considering that all verified deaths have the RT PCR cause as covid. Still accounting for under reporting (deliberate, untested, missed) - this number can never be in multiples of the actual report; it is more likely a fraction. The sheer numerical value of our denominator makes it look inflated. Let me take the most conservative figure of actual infections and a most unbelievable figure of twice the deaths (hard to imagine missing half the number of dead, but still....) - that makes it 20 lakh infections and 2000 deaths. That's gives a 1 day mortality of 0.1%. The part to focus on is that 99.9% STILL LIVE, most without complications and long term SERIOUS sequelae. Take into account many more unreported infections Vs unreported deaths, and the outcome gets even better.

[Nissan1180]

Originally Posted by vivek95

Oh just learnt that at some hospitals, fully stable patients insisit on Remdesivir because their insurance companies demand it. This is how pathetic the state of affairs are. Doctors and hospitals are blamed unnecessarily because of these cheap motives of insurance companies. And people here are gauging the intensity of Covid-19 based on media reports of shortage of Remdesivir and what not. Inside story is different, me or Doctor @Zen2001 simply don't say this Covid is hyped !! Yes its truly affecting some people, I empathise with them, but so is every disease. Lets take Covid seriously but not blow things out of proportion and disrupt many lives and economies in a long run !

Full respect to you for supporting this fight against covid and helping people. The malpractice you pointed out is dangerous at a time when there is a shortage of the medicine. Someone should lodge an FIR against these companies.

However, I am deeply troubled by the statements about "hype". It does not matter if you're a doctor, or someone else, but it is an injustice to the 200,000+ killed by this disease in India. The real number is many times as much but even the official figures are not "hype".
US has lost more citizens due to covid than it lost in the world wars.

Local update from Maharashtra's northern neighbor- the deaths and cases are severely underreported. I got a test done and no one even asked for the adhaar, so there's no way the government is tracking if I am +ve or -ve. Maybe Maharashtra docs and labs have more ethics because of which the cases being reported are higher.

In Ahmedabad the chimneys and grilles of the crematoria melted because of the continuous burning of bodies. Many cities have run out of burial grounds and even the Christians have agreed to cremate because of the shortage of land. It is a calamity as bad as war being led by officers who have a history postgraduate and no training in medicine or epidemiology or any healthcare related technical subject (you can verify the credentials of the senior officers on govt websites).

For the first time in India's history, all Oxygen is being redirected to medical use instead of industries. Board exams were cancelled for the first time in history. All this is not hype. It is severe mismanagement of resources, total callousness of some people and their elected political and religious leaders and complete disservice to doctors, nurses and healthcare workers like Asha workers. Irresponsible people visiting political rallies and religious gatherings, wearing a mask like a chin ornament, return with covid and blame the doctors (sometimes beat them) when one of them is left gasping for breath.

[Zen2001]

Originally Posted by ottocycle

From my reading on different places, seems like AZ and mRNA, both work similar way (spike proteins) but their delivery method is different. And therefore they are actually compatible. This could be one of the reason Germany is saying to switch to mRNA.

However, Coaxin has different mechanism, where I can't comment much.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.new...ay-2285876.amp

As of now, at least in India, the answer seems no. According to experts. Not without a robust trial. There are theoretical pros and cons of the same, but nothing practically known as far as covid is concerned. Funnily, the centre send to be conveniently sitting on the fence, waiting to see which side to jump. However, this may eventually happen "out of shortage induced desperation" rather than science. Or if an ongoing vaccine (like the AstraZeneca) is discontinued owing to any concerns. Infact many countries have begun trials of mixing vaccines as "mix and match" trials (called Com-CoV in the UK) to study the outcome. These are still accruing volunteers (of specific age groups) and results will easily take a few months, (considering 2 minimum doses 4-6 or more weeks apart) and subsequent evaluation of immunogenicity and ongoing evaluation of safety. Even as of now, the UK recommends everyone who's got the first dose of any vaccine to get the SAME vaccine as the second dose (outside of a clinical trial), unless recommendations change.

[saket77]

Just received a call that lost a young business associate today. Hardly 26 years of age. This Makes 2 deaths in my circle in 2 days. But no problem, it’s just a statistic.

And could people advocating that it’s all hype and all media reports are fake and meant to scare us, the infinite queues at burial grounds are actually people going there for joy rides, can you please tell me that according to your data analysis, what number of daily deaths we will have to achieve to finally call this thing deadly?

Only 5 reported out of 187 was in news yesterday. Please let me know if that’s a fraction or multiple according to your math because we are idiots to interpret any data. And Zen2001, you’re saying it’s ‘difficult’ to hide death data??

[splitsecond]

Originally Posted by Zen2001

. Let me take the most conservative figure of actual infections and a most unbelievable figure of twice the deaths (hard to imagine missing half the number of dead, but still....) - that makes it 20 lakh infections and 2000 deaths. That's gives a 1 day mortality of 0.1%. The part to focus on is that 99.9% STILL LIVE, most without complications and long term SERIOUS sequelae. Take into account many more unreported infections Vs unreported deaths, and the outcome gets even better.

This low mortality of covid doesnt make it less dangerous, this has been pointed out in this thread itself several times.
What covid lacks in its mortality rate, it more than makes up for its spreading rate, which means it will kill way more people than other 90% mortality diseases like ebola or nipah, that why its way more dangerouse than ebola. We could have easily contained ebola but not covid.
Other misconception about covid is that majority who got infected are not showing symptoms, which is a good thing as per some. But thats what makes this virus dangerous because it can spread silently among population searching for its next victim avoiding detection. For example GTO himself even though he took extreme precaution. Its like a Alien attack where our enemy is invincible , because most people are asymptomatic. But in the case of other diseases we can easily find the people who are infected and isolate them and most people will be too weak by the time they become contagious.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Zen2001

The part to focus on is that 99.9% STILL LIVE, most without complications and long term SERIOUS sequelae. Take into account many more unreported infections Vs unreported deaths, and the outcome gets even better.

Please Stop telling me about the number of people who die (not just you, everyone who is singing this song). If I die I'm not going to bothered by the this virus, Although there are probably nicer ways of getting there.

I am bothered by the much larger chance of being extremely ill. And I bet that the proportion of people made extremely ill by Covid is vastly more than than the unknown deaths. Why? How much track do you keep of people when they leave the hospital? Do you know what happens to them? Again I don't mean you, I mean the healthcare institution, which doesn't, because there isn't one. All of this is a big factor in the perceived seriousness of covid, and may be why it is perceived as more serious in reports from countries that have centralised healthcare, and where records are known.

Here, nothing will be known. After discharge, the patient may live or die. And no, I really don't mean you. Because the jobs of those caring for the ICU patients are really done, and done wonderfully well, when they see those people out of the door on their feet, not feet first.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Zen2001

- more difficult to hide, agree? Considering that all verified deaths have the RT PCR cause as covid.

More difficult to hide when all this data is analyzed somewhere in the future. Right now even though hundreds of cremations are following covid protocol, only a tiny fraction are actually reported as covid.

Due to possible reporting issue, world over a metric called excess deaths is used. But for India try finding official numbers of 2019 vs 2020 deaths. Just try.
And then let me know how difficult it is to find what.

[neelkumar]

Can we please stop this endless debate about severity of COVID or lack thereof?

Originally Posted by StarrySky

A close relative of a friend of ours is in Mumbai (Kandivali) and has severe Covid infection. The patient has been prescribed Tocilizumab, but the family has so far been unable to source it in Mumbai.

If anyone in the forum can help the family source the medicine, please PM me.

Originally Posted by Akshay6988

Sharing this useful information about the Remdesivir injection. For Pune district, there is a control room for distribution of the injection. Contact number - 020 26123371 or 1077. This will be operational till 31st May. Apologies for sharing late.

Debate about govt policies or suggestions around it is good, but important posts like these are getting hidden under this sea of spam.