[bj96]

Originally Posted by poloman

...
There is a reason why you call a pandemic a pandemic.
... enormity of producing 1.3B x2 vaccines...

Very valid points .

However, I think the target is to vaccinate only 50-60% of the population, not all. It halves the number, still, doesn't reduce the practical enormity of the problem.

-BJ

[Lobogris]

I have been having my doubts about the efficacy of vaccines after reading reports of multitudes of people getting infected after vaccination. Of course the declared efficacy is around 70 to 80% and likely lower in real life so there are bound to be a percentage of people who will get infected. The question is whether the new double mutant now widely prevalent in India can outfox the vaccines? As per today’s report from ICMR, Covax is effective against it. However as per this detailed report from Business Standard, current vaccines are ineffective and we are sort of wasting our effort. I would love to hear the views of the doctors and other experts on this. Here is the article:

https://www.businessinsider.in/news/...w/82128172.cms

[KPR]

There was an opportunity window on voting days of state assembly election when vaccination could've been administered in the voting booth itself. A big number of opting adults could've been covered in state like TN when election happened on 6th April.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

I have been having my doubts about the efficacy of vaccines after reading reports of multitudes of people getting infected after vaccination.

There is a substantial window of risk, from the period before vaccination to the point where sufficient protection has been stimulated in the body. The definition of this period I do not know, and have heard contradictory statements, but the risk period is certainly weeks not days.

I'll take what's going: it's the best chance we have. If further boosters, vaccinations, etc, become necessary next week, next month, next year, to the best of my ability I'll get that too. Nobody expects a flu jab to last longer than one year, because the next year's flu will be different. We may need to have the same attitude to this corona virus.

So what I say is please do not discourage people from getting vaccinated, but do not encourage them to think that doing so is the end of the story. It may be just the beginning.

[rdst_1]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

There is a substantial window of risk, from the period before vaccination to the point where sufficient protection has been stimulated in the body. The definition of this period I do not know, and have heard contradictory statements, but the risk period is certainly weeks not days.

This data has been compiled from the various publications mentioned in the picture in which the studies were published. As you can see, for most vaccines the period of supposed immunity starts 2 weeks after the final dose.
Also, we are now seeing newer mutations emerge and scientists are currently testing them to see if they will be covered by the present vaccines. So whether someone is vaccinated or not, the preventive guidelines will need to be followed by everyone irrespectively for the near future.

[ashlil]

Originally Posted by Zen2001

Covid-19: politicisation, “corruption,” and suppression of science
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425.long

Science in the time of corona: That uneasy feeling
https://www.mjdrdypv.org/article.asp...ulast=Banerjee

Both of these articles are third rate and highly unscientific. Lot of accusations without any evidence. Take for example, The BMJ editorial, which states "Government appointees are able to ignore or cherry pick science". Which government appointee? What is the exact instance of cherry picking? Another example in the same article, "Politicians and industry are responsible for this opportunistic embezzlement. So too are scientists and health experts." Which health experts? This is just a conspiracy article which does not belong in a scientific journal. But, maybe the BMJ is not a scientific journal. Ditto the second article. Name and shame if you have evidence. Otherwise, don't spread unfounded conspiracies.

[download2live]

They are going to create facilities to make mRNA based vaccines in Australia. The thinking is that this virus is going to need annual vaccinations. Much like flu shots. Hence to reduce the costs the manufacturing will be done locally.

[sunilch]

Originally Posted by download2live

They are going to create facilities to make mRNA based vaccines in Australia. The thinking is that this virus is going to need annual vaccinations. Much like flu shots. Hence to reduce the costs the manufacturing will be done locally.

This is not to reduce the cost for sure. The cost is anyway very very less. This is to ensure quality and also availability when needed. If it was only for cost, they can't beat India at that.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by ashlil

Both of these articles are third rate and highly unscientific. Lot of accusations without any evidence.

This is editorial, not research papers. Professional journals do publish such things.

Take for example, The BMJ editorial, which states "Government appointees are able to ignore or cherry pick science". Which government appointee?

Lots of them, probably, all over the world. But this is a British journal, and I'd suppose it to apply, primarily to UK. You are free not to believe it, but I wonder if you have seen any relevant news coverage.

This is just a conspiracy article which does not belong in a scientific journal. But, maybe the BMJ is not a scientific journal. Ditto the second article. Name and shame if you have evidence. Otherwise, don't spread unfounded conspiracies.

No. This is editorial, which does belong in a professional journal.

[poloman]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

I have been having my doubts about the efficacy of vaccines after reading reports of multitudes of people getting infected after vaccination. Of course the declared efficacy is around 70 to 80% and likely lower in real life so there are bound to be a percentage of people who will get infected. The question is whether the new double mutant now widely prevalent in India can outfox the vaccines? As per today’s report from ICMR, Covax is effective against it. However as per this detailed report from Business Standard, current vaccines are ineffective and we are sort of wasting our effort. I would love to hear the views of the doctors and other experts on this. Here is the article:

https://www.businessinsider.in/news/...w/82128172.cms

Only 32 people hospitalized with Covid after having vaccination. This is encouraging sign from one of most vaccinated country UK. i think they primarily used Pfizer and Covishield.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...d-vaccination/

Back home so much bad mouthing was done against Covaxin by some people in this country. This created fear and anti vaccination mood among general public in the initial 2-3 months. Now people are queueing up for vaccine and creating all sorts of problems in vaccination centers.

[ashlil]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

This is editorial, not research papers. Professional journals do publish such things.
Lots of them, probably, all over the world. But this is a British journal, and I'd suppose it to apply, primarily to UK. You are free not to believe it, but I wonder if you have seen any relevant news coverage.No. This is editorial, which does belong in a professional journal.

Editorial does not mean a scientific journal gets to spread baseless conspiracies. If we allow editorial to be anything, what next? Articles on flat earth or irreducible complexity? Editorial is not a place for baseless thing and despite what you may believe, it does not belong in professional journals.

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by poloman

Back home so much bad mouthing was done against Covaxin by some people in this country. This created fear and anti vaccination mood among general public in the initial 2-3 months. Now people are queueing up for vaccine and creating all sorts of problems in vaccination centers.

There have been multiple posts explaining this in the other threads. You are simply mentioning only the protest part conveniently ignoring that the phase 3 trial results were not out at that time. Also, your "some people" included members of scientific community and a large number of doctors who refused to take the vaccine till the results are released. Once the results were declared in March, people started taking it.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...ml#post5048169 (Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...ml#post5048038 (Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...ml#post5048081 (Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures)

[poloman]

Originally Posted by m8002?

There have been multiple posts explaining this in the other threads. You are simply mentioning only the protest part conveniently ignoring that the phase 3 trial results were not out at that time. Also, your "some people" included members of scientific community and a large number of doctors who refused to take the vaccine till the results are released. Once the results were declared in March, people started taking it.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...ml#post5048169 (Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...ml#post5048038 (Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...ml#post5048081 (Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures)

Phase 3 trials might not have been out in early March, but there was enough clinical data available for a physician to ascertain the benefits vs side effects of the vaccine.
Finally so much of the vaccine and time got wasted.
Also new data shows great efficacy for both covishield and covaxin in preventing serious infection after vaccination.
https://news.rediff.com/commentary/2...93d42e0ee575cf

[sunishsamuel]

Originally Posted by poloman

Phase 3 trials might not have been out in early March, but there was enough clinical data available for a physician to ascertain the benefits vs side effects of the vaccine.
Finally so much of the vaccine and time got wasted.
Also new data shows great efficacy for both covishield and covaxin in preventing serious infection after vaccination.
https://news.rediff.com/commentary/2...93d42e0ee575cf

Seems to me that everybody took the cautious route and waited for the Phase 3 results. And if enough clinical data was available why wasn't the vaccination pushed so aggressively till last week ? I am sure the lawmakers will not prefer delays either !! How come the last 2 weeks saw sudden spikes even in states like Delhi (no election rally etc in the recent times), MP, UP etc.?

At the same time today's news is confusing. Does it mean that the vaccines are not yet 100% effective ?

Injectable vaccines don't protect the upper lung, Dr Krishna Ella said, emphasising the need to wear masks even after vaccination.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...978343696.html

Safety and Efficacy results from the final analysis will be available in June, and the final report will be submitted to a peer-reviewed publication.
https://www.freepressjournal.in/indi...terim-analysis

[ArTigor]

My fight with COVID 19:

Exactly 1 year after the onset of COVID pandemic in India, I was working from home, with all due precautions. We are 6 members at home out of which Father and Sister are working on some essential govt. projects and hence travel daily to BKC in Mumbai while we stay in Kharghar Navi Mumbai. both of them being in essential services received their first dose of vaccine in late February 2021 and second dose was due in the 1st week of April. but things took a wrong turn. following are the sequence of events:

3rd April evening father develops high fever constantly above 102 degrees we administer him paracetamol, fever recedes but only to return with higher intensity at night, we again administer him another paracetamol. Within 12 hours father was feeling very week, I felt this might be COVID and hence took him for a test on the 4th April. now 4th was a Sunday and we couldn't find RTPCR test available, there was a RAT test available at govt. testing center. Father undertook it the test result was given in 30minutes which came out negative. While waiting in the line to get the testing done dad fainted and lost consciousness briefly for about 5 minutes, luckily the doctors made ORS available and he regained consciousness in another 5 minutes time, so although the RAT reports were indicating negative things did not look normal to me. bought my dad back home and consulted with family physician who prescribed some medicines, 4th and 5th April father witnessed mild fever and very few dry cough, by 5th April, Myself, my wife, and one of my sisters also started showing mild fever. I was having gut feeling that this i is Covid so went on to safe mode at home, following safety protocols at home like wearing mask all the time and social distancing at home.

On the 6th of April Myself and father got tested (RTPCR), we received the reports on 7th April that both of us were covid positive. We also got our CT scans done and the reports came out mild congestion. our family doctor suggested to keep monitoring SPO2 levels every hour. As we were showing only moderate symptoms we were suggested a home quarantine with some heavy medications. We were also asked to undertake blood tests basically CBC, CRP, Creatinine & liver profile.
By the 7th April all family members were showing mild symptoms, primarily fever, but the situation was so bad that RTPCR slots were having a 4 day waiting in Navi Mumbai, we eventually got a slot for 11th April which was booked on 7th April. The doctor as a precautionary measure proceeded with Covid treatment for everyone.
8th of April, father, myself, younger brother and sister were showing some fever(101-102), father did not have any loss of taste of smell throughout the time he was ill. I lost my smell and taste senses on 9th April.
As I and My father(who is diabetic) had a little high viral load we were advised to conduct blood tests every alternate days to keep a track of all parameters, so as to not wait until things go worse.

9th 10th and 11th April all 6 of us were experiencing fever and dry cough, out SPO2 levels hovering around 96-98% only once briefly did Fathers SPO2 level go down to 94 but immediately came back to 96 in 5 minutes time. On the 11th April all other family members also got tested and as expected all came Covid Positive. On the evening of 11th April father started developing constant high fever, the fever continued throughout night. By this time we were consulting with a Pulmonologist who was treating Covid patients.

12th April me and my father got our blood tests done(we were doing it every alternate day) and awaiting results, fathers health was deteriorating in the sense he was loosing a lot of energy. the test reports came by the evening of 12th and sent alarm bells ringing as Fathers Blood platelets has decreased to dangerous level and there were clots formation in blood.
Here starts the hunt for a bed, dialed up atleast 25 hospitals in Navi Mumbai, one had bed availability. Our treating doctor also was trying his best for availing bed. Finally after 2 hours of phone calls one hospital conformed bed availability, took my dad got him into my Alto and drove down to the hospital only to find out that the bed got occupied by another serious patient. My dad emotionally gave up on that point, just in that moment I got 2 phone calls, one from my colleague who was also helping me get a bed, he arranged a bed in Airoli, I took a sigh of relief, as we were proceeding to Airoli our treating doctor called up and informed he has arranged for a bed just near my home. We finally asked the Airoli hospital to provide the bed to needy as we got a bed in Kharghar itself. Reached Kharghar got dad admitted on the midnight of 13th April, it was an emotional moment, as I had lost my Father in Law in Nov 2020 due to the same issue Blood clots due to Covid infection and the turn of events, struggle to arrange bed and getting my father admitted was a feeling of de-ja-vu. Later I came to know my father had got unconscious for 3 hours the moment he was taken on to the bed and he was bought back to consciousness only after administering heavy drugs, I guess we had made it just in time to the hospital. Luckily dad did not require Remdesivir, I just can not imagine how would have I arranged for that. Infact one hospital told me they will be able to get my dad admitted only if I arrange for Remdesivir beforehand for his treatment or else they are not responsible for consequences! my treating doctor had already told me that my father will not require Remdesivir, so i avoided that hospital.
13th April morning I developed very severe blisters and my tongue swell to such an extent that it occupied my entire throat.
while I was no more having fever or cough my face was terribly swollen. eventually in the next 3 days i.e. till 16th April all 5 members of family including me were showing good recovery. Dad was also recovering well and on 18th April afternoon he too got a discharge.

Today 21st of April exactly 16 days since most of my family members started showing symptoms I can say that all of us are in a much better position, only issue we face now is weakness. all our Covid medications have been stopped and we are consuming only multivitamin medicines.

I have documented in detail my day to day symptoms so will mention it:-
Day 1(5th April) Body feeling warm, temperature on digital thermometer 100.
Day 2 absolutely nothing
Day 3 Brief warm feeling, no cough
Day 4 Fever 101-102, tiredness
Day 5 Fever, Tiredness
Day 6 Fever, Tiredness, Loss of Taste and Smell
Day 7 Tiredness, Loss of taste and Smell, Face Swelling, Drop in Blood Platelets, Redness in Eyes.
Day 8 Tiredness, Loss of taste and Smell, Face Swelling, Drop in Blood Platelets, Redness in Eyes, Entire mouth and tongue covered in blisters, could hardly speak.
Day 9 Tiredness, Loss of taste and Smell, Face Swelling, Blood Platelets coming back to normal level, Redness in Eyes, Entire mouth and tongue covered in blisters, Tongue swollen & barely moveable, Drying of lips.
Day 10 Tiredness, Loss of taste and Smell, Face Swelling, Redness in Eyes, Entire mouth and tongue covered in blisters, Tongue swollen & barely moveable Drying of lips.
Day 11 Tiredness, Loss of taste and Smell, Entire mouth and tongue covered in blisters, tongue swelling subdued, Frequent urination for entire day almost every 30 minutes(drank lot of water to keep hydrated), Drying of lips.
Day 12 Tiredness, regained taste and smell, blisters almost 90% gone, dryness persistent.
Day 13 Apart from Tiredness all feels normal, able to sit for longer time.
Day 14 Some tiredness
Day 15 Feeling completely normal and energetic.
Day 16 Feeling normal and energetic.
Day 17 Absolutely normal writing experience on TBHP

Note:- Apart from the initial RAT test all tests were done at home, as we did not want to infect any one else. While the official home quarantine is 15 days we as a measure of precaution are keeping ourself quarantined for another 7 days. When dads hospitalization was being done and when he was discharged we used our cars for the travel as ambulances were not available and we did not want to unnecessarily infect anyone by using Uber/Ola.
Municipal authorities, nodal health officer and government doctors were very cooperative, in fact 3 of my family members recovered on government prescribed and provided medicines.

In Covid especially for high viral load and comorbid patients, monitoring your health parameters every 2 days is the key, and it is not only about oxygen, there are way more things that can go bad.
Do not delay Tests and Treatment

Covid is bad and apart from the physical aspect it impacts you psychologically.
With Gods blessing, efforts from medical fraternity, and staying strong & supportive as a family, we have come out of this bad experience.

Keep safe, Stay indoors, Be careful today,
so you can 'Live To Drive' another day!