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Old 20th February 2020, 08:54   #46
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Default Re: Did you ever get cheated by a builder while buying a house? Share tips & advice here

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Originally Posted by Malyaj View Post
M


5. There are multiple options to litigate. RERA is one of them. The other ways are:
What about approaching NCLT under IBC (Indian Bankruptcy Code)? Given you are basically creditors, with a judgment in your favour, and they have defaulted on payment, you can try to take them to NCLT.

The threat alone might work wonders. Once you're in NCLT under an IBC proceeding, all bank finance is cut off. And finance is a builder's lifeline.
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Old 20th February 2020, 10:04   #47
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Default Re: Did you ever get cheated by a builder while buying a house? Share tips & advice here

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Never go for Akshaya, they have multiple failed projects in Chennai...Both have been pending since I don't know when !
Pls include January & Today (promised 2019 & still not delivered) as well.

But then, today we all know these things, back in 2010, no one knew all this were coming
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Old 20th February 2020, 11:14   #48
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Default Re: Did you ever get cheated by a builder while buying a house? Share tips & advice here

It is not just under construction apartments one needs to diligent about, even the layouts by many of these "builders/developers" are not spared.

Six years ago, I was looking for a plot in and around Mysore. One developer contacted me and got his car to show his layout. This was almost 20Kms away from the city. There was some work going on at the place.
The sales person went on to say that there will be 5 phases under development and the one where the work is going on is the 1st phase. This was almost 2 Kms from any semblance of road. He also mentioned almost all the plots are either booked or sold. He also mentioned that banks are providing loans for these plots and asked us to make a decision same day. The sales guy enthusiastically went on to say, a lot of movie stars and big shots have all bought plots in this layout.
I asked him about the location of the other phases. He mentioned these are further down the 1st phase and all I could see was Farm lands or barren lands. I asked him when can I see the documents of the plots. Now he sheepishly says we are in talks to acquire lands from Farmers, it is almost done and once acquired, we will complete the work within 6 months.

Basically this "developer" was selling plots which were not technically his to sell. He has not even acquired the lands from the farmers.
I was shocked beyond words and I wanted to give a piece of my mind to the sales guy, but I kept quiet because I needed a ride back to my place since I had come in his car.
After I was dropped home, the sales guy asked me when he can come back to collect the cheque for the booking. I told him that I don't have a flower bouquet on my head to fall for this trap and told him to take a hike. He had the gall to say, you are making a big mistake, in a few years you will have to pay 10 times the price to get a plot in that layout. I just ignored him.

It's been six years now and no prizes for guessing the state of the layout. Project is stalled and the "developer" is absconding.

But I have also had good experience with another developer from whom I bought a villa plot three years ago. This developer had completed all the works including fencing, water lines, electric line, security and the works. During our initial meeting, the developer gave me a full folder with all documents. I got it properly vetted once more through a lawyer before I made the booking. The layout got sold out last year and the prices have been appreciating quite well.

In the end, it is very important to do your due diligence and do not fall for any sweet talks of the builder/developers.
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Old 20th February 2020, 11:25   #49
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Default Re: Did you ever get cheated by a builder while buying a house? Share tips & advice here

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Originally Posted by panamera13 View Post
Another thing - Why the heck is this still happening i.e. people buying under-construction houses. All the RISK falls on the buyer and nothing on the builder.
Because home purchase/ownership is still an emotional decision rather than the rational/asset acquisition decision that it should be!

As soon as you get a stable job or get married, you'll start getting advice to buy your own home from several and even random people. All of whom will have great stories about 'good deals' and how much their properties appreciated in x years.

Not too many factual accounts of exactly how much those properties actually sold for and how long they took to sell though; not even on the property/real estate thread on this forum - and I've asked!

Since buying land is out of the question because of outrageous prices in our cities, the only option is apartments.

When I started working and it seemed like the economy would grow for ever, banks were basically throwing home loans to all. Friends who could barely make monthly expenses meet at that time were advising me to buy a flat 'for investment'! A lot of those friends are doing much better financially now, but are still paying EMIs and not even staying in their own 'dream flat' but in another one on rent because they had to move closer to work or their kid's school!

I hope the scene has changed, and things have cooled down. Even back then, it didn't make any sense to take a loan that will tie you down to your job for 20 years to buy a badly constructed small flat in a location with no roads, BWSSB water, or power. It makes even less sense now.

Last edited by am1m : 20th February 2020 at 11:27.
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Old 20th February 2020, 11:57   #50
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Default Re: Did you ever get cheated by a builder while buying a house? Share tips & advice here

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Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
Or so you'd think. Have enough reliable information on how similar Godrej is to other builders. On a project constructed with Shapoorji & Pallonji, Godrej has turned a blind eye to serious lapses of quality and commitment.

From completely ignoring residents' requests and pleas to intervention, legal notices to hiring bouncers to shoo residents from their corporate offices, Godrej has been no saint.
Would like to add to this. Was interested in Godrej projects in Keshav Nagar, Pune - Godrej Infinity and Godrej Rejuve. USP of this was a bridge connecting to EON IT Park Kharadi. The corporation dropped the plan for the bridge and there were discussions and land acquisition issues and those who bought or live there are stuck with traffic in Keshav Nagar and Mundhwa areas. One of my colleagues who had bought and got possession is facing seepage issues on almost all rooms and complains of pathetic construction quality.

Compared to almost all new constructions, the house my dad and mom bought 25 years ago still is top notch. Stuff like these make people really think whether buying a home now is really worth it.

Last edited by whencut86 : 20th February 2020 at 12:00. Reason: correction
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Old 20th February 2020, 13:09   #51
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Originally Posted by nasa_hubble View Post
Guys, just a thought.

What if insurance companies came up with a policy to insure under construction apartments. The insurance company has all the resources to vet the complex, if they do it right they get handsome premiums.
Not going to happen given the way Real Estate industry and land-title ownership currently works in India. Too many chinks in the armor and hence high chance for the insurance provider to loose money.

Banks do the wetting and give you loans on approved projects only. So look out for projects which are approved by major banks only. Their legal department does all the wetting possible and only then will they approve loan for a particular project. But even here the terms and conditions are in favor of the bank and the builder. None in favor of the customer as they don't have negotiation power.



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Originally Posted by lamborghini View Post
Godrej, Piramal, Tata, Raymonds, etc. are all entering real estate. These are guys who will play by the book because they simply cannot afford to dilute their brand value - clean transactions, and the ability to deliver! Others are going to have to follow suit!

Some tips to help out, and avoid dealing with criminal organizations:

1) The premium for a clean & cash rich developer is always worth it! You may get a better deal by negotiating with someone who is in dire need of liquidity, but you will also have a higher chance of delays.
2) In addition to the developer point above, In the case of larger developments especially (which always take the most amount of time for completion) - choose a reputed contractor. Most reputed contractors like L&T, etc. focus on quality & timely development while being picky about clients.
3) Listed real estate companies are a safer bet + you have access to their financials to see how sound they are in their ability to deliver
Quote:
Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
Or so you'd think. Have enough reliable information on how similar Godrej is to other builders. On a project constructed with Shapoorji & Pallonji, Godrej has turned a blind eye to serious lapses of quality and commitment.
These are lesser evil of the two. Nothing more. The risk is marginally lower in case of large corporate players. They do care about their reputation, their land titles are clear most of the time (helpful in the real long term - say 20-30 years for a self occupied property) and they indulge in clean transactions with the buyer.

But the downside is that you are too small a player to negotiate or settle any dispute. Their legal teams are strong and resourceful. So good luck when it comes to fighting with them legally.

Look at Lodha for example. Large builder that has clean land titles, has great amenities, delivers of time (most of the time) but has many many other issues in its projects. And buyers are a very tiny fish to fight against them. Some of them do fight and come back with a win. But are you as a regular buyer ready to take that risk?

Base of my limited experience in the real-estate world, some advice:


1) When buying for self-use/occupancy, buy Ready To Move (RTM) property with all papers in place and already having some occupants.
2) Negotiate heavily with the builder when you are paying in full and/or have your loan sanctioned. They will negotiate to any extent to close the deal.
3) Walk away from the deal if your intuition says that something important is wrong. Do not worry about peer/family pressure. No one will help you later if your purchase turns out sour. There are many projects and many properties in the market. Today or tomorrow, you will get a good deal that you will love/like.
4) Talk to residents already living there or near by to get a feedback on the society/property/locality/builder. You may just get some golden info out of the blue.
5) Buy something which will be a +1 for your lifestyle. A better location, a better society, a bigger house (extra room), etc. Anything that will upgrade your life by a factor. The factor can be anything which will be applicable to you. This will go a long way in the long run. You will feel proud of your purchase down the line and it will help you in many aspects.

For all of the above reasons, you may have to pay a premium and that is ok. Over the long run the premium will not matter and will be worth it as this avoids many risks for your hard earned money.


But if you are purchasing a property only as an investment, then it is an altogether different ball game. I don't want to advice anyone on this front here as the number of risks involved is too many and so are the measures that you may have to take. That will be a long discussion to type here

Last edited by sunilch : 20th February 2020 at 13:11.
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Old 20th February 2020, 13:28   #52
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Default Re: Did you ever get cheated by a builder while buying a house? Share tips & advice here

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Originally Posted by lamborghini View Post
If there's one thing I will not disagree with is about how dirty & murky a real estate transaction in India is, especially pre-RERA!
That being said, a lot of changed for the better over the years - and there is definite improvement bound to happen in areas pertaining to transparency, quality, and timeliness.

Really? Sorry, but I'd like to understand leveraging actual data-points if you don't mind sharing wrt to the change happening for the end consumer on ground; else I'm sorry but most of us would be questioning the views you have shared on post-RERA.

RERA is turning out to be a toothless entity from what I hear all around - I follow this person who keeps giving updates on the RERA related cases in Bangalore - pretty much voices the situation as listed by many on this forum. I sold my house last year in Pune; but I know of many around neighboring areas who are still stuck in half finished setups or given apartments nowhere close to what they were originally promised; all of them have highlighted the limited power of RERA in their cases.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lamborghini View Post
2) Entry of MNCs & Corporates : As competition increases, local players have to adapt or die out.
Godrej, Piramal, Tata, Raymonds, etc. are all entering real estate. These are guys who will play by the book because they simply cannot afford to dilute their brand value - clean transactions, and the ability to deliver! Others are going to have to follow suit!
On this list Tata might be the only one that I might give credence based their past history across other industries. As for others, I really doubt their ability to deliver outside Mumbai. Even in Mumbai, I'll let others provide feedback.

When you say go for a clean & cash rich developer, how do we exactly determine that who fits into that? I'm talking outside the high-end focused players like Lodha, Prestige, Oberoi; although I doubt if any of them fit both the capabilities.
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Old 20th February 2020, 13:50   #53
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Some 40 odd poor souls including me from different parts of Kerala are stuck with a builder named MPS India Holdings Pvt Limited. They are based in Kochi and had announced several projects back in 2015. None have got completed till date.

I booked a villa back in 2016 in their Trivandrum project named Apstone. The completion time as per agreement was 18 months for my house followed by 12 months for all amenities. Now hitting 50 months and the builder already showing signs of bankruptcy. They are not even paying staff salary on time. Some of us have moved in to our villas unable to bear rental and EMI burden though the project is still in a half baked state without a proper compound wall or gate for the project. Many owners are still waiting for their villas to be completed.

The worst part is none of the 40 odd owners wants to move legally fearing long settlement times. The builder still tries to pull as much money as possible from some of the owners. Worried when they will disapper one fine morning.

The owner talks like a goon and says his net asset is worth 3000 crores plus but won't shell out money to complete the project. No one is ready to challenge him or move legally :(

Stuck !!
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Old 20th February 2020, 13:59   #54
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Default Re: Did you ever get cheated by a builder while buying a house? Share tips & advice here

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Originally Posted by whencut86 View Post
Compared to almost all new constructions, the house my dad and mom bought 25 years ago still is top notch. Stuff like these make people really think whether buying a home now is really worth it.
Because back then people used to build houses to live in, now houses (villas) are built to sell. Major difference.
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Old 20th February 2020, 15:08   #55
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This works if it is not a 'hot' property, the ones with good plan and in a decent area will be lapped up and only bummers will be available at the last, unless the builder has blocked a few apartments under builder quota, which he normally quotes a premium.
Not really. A lot of people buy properties assuming they will appreciate. (investor mentality)

If they do appreciate on possession, investors sell.
If they do NOT appreciate on possession, investors sell. (assuming stop loss)

Investors dont like their money to be yielding zero return, they will change investment medium rather than wait 10 years for locality to develop and they investment to give some ROI.
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Old 20th February 2020, 15:40   #56
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Some 40 odd poor souls including me from different parts of Kerala are stuck with a builder named MPS India Holdings Pvt Limited. They are based in Kochi and had announced several projects back in 2015. None have got completed till date.

I booked a villa back in 2016 in their Trivandrum project named Apstone. The completion time as per agreement was 18 months for my house followed by 12 months for all amenities. Now hitting 50 months and the builder already showing signs of bankruptcy. They are not even paying staff salary on time. Some of us have moved in to our villas unable to bear rental and EMI burden though the project is still in a half baked state without a proper compound wall or gate for the project. Many owners are still waiting for their villas to be completed.

The worst part is none of the 40 odd owners wants to move legally fearing long settlement times. The builder still tries to pull as much money as possible from some of the owners. Worried when they will disapper one fine morning.

The owner talks like a goon and says his net asset is worth 3000 crores plus but won't shell out money to complete the project. No one is ready to challenge him or move legally :(

Stuck !!
Have you all tried to get an appointment with Shashi Tharoor? Also post on his twitter handle and publicly ask for updates from him.

It could work. Social Media/PR can sometimes do more than you think.

Last edited by panamera13 : 20th February 2020 at 16:07.
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Old 20th February 2020, 18:37   #57
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What about approaching NCLT under IBC (Indian Bankruptcy Code)? Given you are basically creditors, with a judgment in your favour, and they have defaulted on payment, you can try to take them to NCLT.

The threat alone might work wonders. Once you're in NCLT under an IBC proceeding, all bank finance is cut off. And finance is a builder's lifeline.
We got our RERA judgement in first week of January and need to wait 60 days for the builder to make the payment (which we know they will not). After that need to appeal with RERA, which again I am sure is a paper formality. The eventual plan is to with NCLT
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Old 20th February 2020, 20:58   #58
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Default Re: Did you ever get cheated by a builder while buying a house? Share tips & advice here

Complaints against Builders are very common. But here are some facts that may put light on it.

1. Builders have to pay money to various government deparments, right before start of construction. There are sneaky people all around who come to know immediately after a land deal and then the chain of event starts. This increases end user price.
2. A builder has to pay under the table for plan passing, water connection, electricity connection, fire clearance and many more things. And not every time for illegal things. Most of the time builders pay to avoid delays as a lot of cash is already pumped in.
3. I have seen many under constuction flats as I love to go on construction sites and roam with my friends. The buildings in Pune region have quite a few parking spaces available whereas near Mumbai, it reduces. In Pune area, without sufficient parking the plans are not passed however in Mumbai region, you can find quite a few buildings without proper parking spaces allocated. It is always risky to invest in under construction project unless you have good contacts in that area.
4. Loading factor is now 40% for most of the projects you see. It results in getting your bedroom size lowered to a mere 10x9 feet. Loading factor means the difference between your carpet and built up (sometimes super built up) area.
5. Builders are very clever in cost cutting. One of the flats I saw had electrical switches purchased in 2015-16, fitted in 2018. Eventually they failed in 3-4 months of usage. Builder must have got it in cheapest rates.
6. If a builder has quickly completed all slabs then stay away from such construction at all costs. A cement concrete slab requires 21 days minimum as curing period which means it must stay wet for 21 whole days. Any less than that and it may get cracks afterwards. This is the main reason of leakage because slabs are not cured enough.
7. Don't go for builder reputation, check his previous constructions and get feedback. Its very common for builders to sub contract to smaller builders.
8. Most builders want cash transaction for some amount in the pretext of saving your taxes. However, if your deal fails then you may not get the cash component back as there is no receipt. Also, as per government rules, you cannot trade in cash for large amount and must use other channel such as cheques.
9. Reputed estate agents are there in any area. They charge you 2% but most of them ensure that you get a good deal. We had good experience most of the time. Since they have an association, any wrongdoing on their part can be reported to their association and gets handled professionally.
10. Ensure that builder has given you warranty (I have seen 3 years warranty as standard) for all amenities he has given. This ensures that you spend nothing if any issues happen in warranty period.
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Old 20th February 2020, 22:01   #59
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Default Re: Did you ever get cheated by a builder while buying a house? Share tips & advice here

Unfortunately in most of the cases this happens because buyers are ready to risk everything by investing in under-construction and even soon-to-begin-construction projects. How people are brave enough to do that is beyond my understanding.

Even with reputed builders with the best of intentions have the risk of funds running dry. Even when it is delivered on time, there are many cases were the construction is sub-standard. Why take so much risk with what will be your biggest investment?
To be safe, it is best if you invest/buy in a fully completed project.
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Old 21st February 2020, 10:20   #60
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Default Re: Did you ever get cheated by a builder while buying a house? Share tips & advice here

I am really shocked to see so many people suffering for such a long time across the country. Hyderabad seems to fare better in this aspect except for few cases where the projects were delayed for longer time.
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