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View Poll Results: Do you support the lockdown extension?
Yes 299 47.46%
No 244 38.73%
I'm unsure 87 13.81%
Voters: 630. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 4th May 2020, 13:23   #1561
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
The government has had 40+ days of lockdown to prepare for whatever they were planning. I don't think it makes a difference now if the lockdown is lifted now, after two weeks or after two months. We have to face the virus, whenever the lockdown ends. Why are they just extending it endlessly? It is like the license raj has returned with a vengeance, to make up for the 30 years it was suppressed. If I visit my native district in the same state, I need to take permission, and they will put me into compulsory quarantine upon reaching there. This is simply too much power in the hands of government, which has a very ugly and long history of corruption and harassment.

Will they give up this power in near future? I wonder...
I fully share your worries. Not only not much has been done in building new hospitals, improving existing infrastructure or hiring new medical staff, even orders for critical items like ventilators are just being placed. On the other hand, we have given up all our personal liberties. Now when we can step out, when and if we can open our shop or business, whether we can get our consignment delivered and if we can do something as simple as driving is dependent on the whims of a myriad of bureaucrats, policemen and other bodies with no oversight or challenge. Take a look at how hundreds of migrant workers were being transported by their state back home but were stuck at a state border for 2 days in their buses and were eventually sent back due to a “technicality”. Yes, that was the given reason! Why do Indian citizens need any permit or permission to move around in their own country much less when the states are arranging it themselves? I agree with you that this system of permits for everything will be hard to get rid of and could continue for years.
In fact, I am totally against this division by state system as it will further polarise us in thinking we are different rather than being united as one nation. A state has the obligation of looking after every person in its area regardless of where that person came from. Why do we have to close state or even district borders? If Maharashtra has more cases and is overburdened, why don’t we shift some covid or at least non covid patients to places like Punjab which have fewer cases? Why this distinction in one country? Also, why the distinction based on districts? If an area needs to be cordoned off then it should be based on medical and logistical reasons. So what it it extends across district or state boundaries? Similarly there is no logic in closing an entire area just because it happens to be in a political division called a district. Full cooperation is needed in addressing this epidemic without regard to any state or district borders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalOne View Post
Probably I didn't phrase my question right.

Let's assume 100 infected (confirmed after testing) people. Out of this 80 won't show any symptom. That's fine and understood.

Now out of that remaining 20 who are showing some symptoms, are all of them hospitalized or some are sent back for self-quarantine? And if only few are hospitalized, what is the percentage currently for hospitalization?
Out of the remaining 20%, the majority have mild symptoms and don’t require hospitalization. Here is what the Indian health minister stated a couple of days ago and it would answer your question:
“'0.33% on ventilators, 1.5% on oxygen support, 2.34% in ICU': Health minister
"Only 0.33% patients are on ventilators, 1.5% patients are on oxygen support and 2.34% patients are in ICU, which reflects the quality of care being provided across the country," Union health minister Dr Harsh Vardhan said.

Last edited by Lobogris : 4th May 2020 at 13:35.
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Old 4th May 2020, 13:30   #1562
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Meanwhile in Singapore:

Quote:
The man using @SharonLiew86 Twitter username posted tweets with derogatory terms to refer to people of South Asian descent, reported Channel News Asia. He tweeted that amidst the COVID-19 outbreak, those who sit too close to each other are Malays, Indians or foreigners, and not "true blue" Singaporeans, triggering an outrage in the city-state.
Hope the situation is better now in Singapore and our fellow Indians are safe.

https://www.newindianexpress.com/wor...n-2138366.html

Last edited by DCEite : 4th May 2020 at 13:31.
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Old 4th May 2020, 13:38   #1563
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

I am not convinced that relaxation offered is going to make matters any better.
At the moment, we are in company with US, Russia, Brazil and Canada where flattening of curve is not seen. While some states have shown greater improvement numbers are pointing up and considering the populous country we are and our general traits of indiscipline, I am worried good efforts put in may go in drain and new waves may be in waiting making matters worse.

Some reference tweets for good visualization :

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status...967745539?s=20
https://twitter.com/ShamikaRavi/stat...116345352?s=20 (thread)
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Old 4th May 2020, 14:00   #1564
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Now the government has shifted the blame to citizens of Metros and Urban people. Rural areas were obeying it seems! How on earth can you compare a densely populated metropolis with rural areas is anybody’s guess. We always need scape goats, I don’t know how demoralising it would be for the people of Mumbai and Delhi to read this. It’s easy to blame slum dwellers, but who made the situation that resulted in slums being born in the first place? Dire poverty is what made people migrate from the hinterlands, nobody wants to have their kids to be born in slums. They are people with aspirations, dreams like any of us.

If it helps, let me say that you guys have done whatever possible, don’t think it’s your fault. The virus will take its natural course and end. Even if I lose my life to Covid-19, I won’t carry any hatred to my grave. World was never a fair place, hope somewhere down the line it becomes one.

https://www.news18.com/news/india/mo...r-2604645.html
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Old 4th May 2020, 14:11   #1565
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalOne View Post
I have been reading this 80% cases are asymptomatic here (also by Dr. Vivek) and in other places.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Coming to your question, 80% or whatever but a large people donít display any symptoms and unless tested wonít even know if they are infected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
worldwide data suggests that 80% of patients donít even know they have been infected
Debunking a lie that is being propagated again and again by men in suits - this time with a document from the Ministry of Health and Family Welfare.

Quote:
Most people
(about 80%) recover from the disease without needing special
treatment. Around 1 out of every 6 people who gets COVID-19
becomes seriously ill and develops difficulty breathing. Older people,
and those with underlying medical problems like high blood pressure,
heart problems or diabetes, are more likely to develop serious illness.
This has been twisted by some folks to sound as if 80% of people are "asymptomatic" and hence do not figure in the disease statistics.

Source: https://www.mohfw.gov.in/pdf/FAQ.pdf
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Old 4th May 2020, 14:26   #1566
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

After all this is settled down, look out for COVID-19 cess built into our taxes
A good sell for the insurance companies would be to include an insurance for "knee jerk decisions by the government"

Last edited by hareshjethwani : 4th May 2020 at 14:29.
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Old 4th May 2020, 14:43   #1567
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
Debunking a lie that is being propagated again and again by men in suits - this time with a document from the Ministry of Health and Family Welfare.



This has been twisted by some folks to sound as if 80% of people are "asymptomatic" and hence do not figure in the disease statistics.

Source: https://www.mohfw.gov.in/pdf/FAQ.pdf
Members here including me have quoted authentic references when we said 80% are asymptomatic patients. This statement was publicly made by the chief of ICMR, Pune. I know what the ICMR form comprises as I collect throat/nasopharyngeal swab from suspect patients. Mostly ICMR has collated information from these forms that we send during Covid-19 testing.

He has clearly said that, out of 100 people who are infected with the SARS--Cov2 virus, 80 do not show any or mild symptoms. So, no one is twisting the facts.

Read here - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ind...073-2020-04-20
Attached Thumbnails
India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020-screenshot_20200504142631__01.jpg  


Last edited by vivek95 : 4th May 2020 at 14:45.
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Old 4th May 2020, 14:44   #1568
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

I humbly concede that our country does not have the resources or infrastructure to treat the sheer number of patients if the cases rise more and more. It is a fair metric (amongst what we have) to quantify the number of new cases before declaring a zone out of curbs rather than have 'innocent until proven guilty' approach.

Self regulated best practices haven't, aren't and won't work in India (unlike say, Scandinavia) and that is precisely why we have curbs mandated (and extended in this case) while we wait doing nothing at the expense of the economy. I am sorry but the recklessness and stupidity of others can affect me personally (unlike a seatbelt or helmet example)

Voted Yes in a resigned frame of mind

Last edited by GeeTee TSI : 4th May 2020 at 14:51.
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Old 4th May 2020, 14:45   #1569
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

I wonder what made the Government stop liquor sale in the first place. If Coca Cola and Lays chips are essential, then why is liquor non essential? If the liquor shops were allowed to stay open with the same guidelines as the grocery stores, there would have been no revenue loss and today's situation could have been avoided too. I am not aware of any other country banning liquor sale during lockdown. What happened today was inevitable, not just in India but anywhere in the world, if the administration decides to stop liquor sale for more than a month.
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Old 4th May 2020, 14:47   #1570
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
Debunking a lie...
You have to ignore all the data. They are not for any serious analysis. If you wish to infer anything about this disease, you will have to wait until some health organization mandates universal serological detection along with other tests when you go for a blood test unbeknownst to you; this, along with sewage tests and may be other measurements, away from the glare of the public. This is unlikely to happen anytime soon, when all those craving the limelight are focused on the numbers. Wait until everything normalizes, look for the data in some mundane medical journal and you will get your answers. Till then, relax. You cannot change anything anyway. I pity the medical profession that has to rely on this data to make decisions amidst so much confusion.
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Old 4th May 2020, 14:54   #1571
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Voted "No" for the extended lockdown!

While the lockdown certainly has had its benefits including curve-flattening, and nature healing (Birds Singing, Flamingoes Flocking, Dolphins Dancing, Cleaner Air and Water), the overall response has been (debatably) far from practical.

More here -Politicians Have Destroyed Markets and Ignored Human Rights with Alarming Enthusiasm-and its relevance is not limited to one part of the world.

Quote:
It is important to understand that this disaster is not the result of the coronavirus pandemic, which is a public health problem, but of overzealous government officials reacting to the pandemic. A growing number of researchers and health professionals are suggesting that the total number of cases is far higher than previously thought, which means that COVID-19 is far less deadly than the media and government advisors insist. These revised death rates put COVID-19 fatalities in many places at a rate similar to that of the flu, which kills hundreds of thousands of people every single year globally, without provoking any notably large political reaction.
...
Quote:
This politically triggered economic crisis could then also lead, hopefully, to a clearer understanding among the population that constitutional changes are due in many countries, in order to limit the powers of executive branches everywhere. Let us hope that this will be the lesson learned by the millions confined to their homes by the arbitrary will of the state.
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Old 4th May 2020, 15:00   #1572
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivek95 View Post
He has clearly said that, out of 100 people who are infected with the SARS--Cov2 virus, 80 do not show any or mild symptoms. So, no one is twisting the facts.

Read here - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ind...073-2020-04-20
There is a difference between saying: "80% of patients are asymptomatic" and saying: "80% people experience mild or no symptoms". What the chief has quoted is probably based on the people who had been tested as positive. But what had been quoted by people here (am not pointing at you) was that 80% are asymptomatic, so they never know that they have the virus (which does not figure in the numbers tested positive). In some earlier post, this was used to play down the death rate being reported currently should be corrected a 1/5th of the reported numbers.
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Old 4th May 2020, 15:08   #1573
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
This one was from an hour before near to where I stay in Yelahanka..
I trust you have much more visibility on the liqour shop (can't make out from the video); but otherwise, I'd assume this was a line to a make-shift clinic for giving out health-checkup pass for out-of-state workers; to enable them to avail the trains and buses to their hometowns.

There's a makeshift clinic right next to my apartment; and since morning, there's been a huge line (hundreds if not more) of folks getting themselves checked. The video you shared shows a very similar picture in terms of the profile of guys in the line. Proper distancing being maintained near the entrance gate by the security guard, but beyond a few meters, it's just a normal queue.

Thankfully all are wearing masks (and I can see similar situation in your video). Ironically the line goes by a liquor shop (ground floor of my apt) which hasn't been opened yet.
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Old 4th May 2020, 15:08   #1574
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
There is a difference between saying: "80% of patients are asymptomatic" and saying: "80% people experience mild or no symptoms". What the chief has quoted is probably based on the people who had been tested as positive. But what had been quoted by people here (am not pointing at you) was that 80% are asymptomatic, so they never know that they have the virus (which does not figure in the numbers tested positive). In some earlier post, this was used to play down the death rate being reported currently should be corrected a 1/5th of the reported numbers.
Oh yes. I am not sure if my statement so far has been misconstrued then. Let me clarify again, when I say, 80% are asymptomatic, that means 80 out of 100 people who are already lab tested positive show no or mild symptoms. It does not mean that 80% of the population as a whole is asymptomatic. Everyday I see an average of 7-8 patients ( lab confirmed positive patients ) and nearly 6 of them have absolutely no symptoms and the remaining two would have had mild fever or irritation in throat.

Thanks for pointing this out, a clarification was needed from my side
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Old 4th May 2020, 15:13   #1575
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeTee TSI View Post
...I am sorry but the recklessness and stupidity of others can affect me personally (unlike a seatbelt or helmet example)

Voted Yes in a resigned frame of mind
Sir,

Could you kindly elaborate on what you mean by recklessness of others? I can understand if someone wilfully performs some actions to endanger you in particular, or other people in general.** But in the case of Covid the virus spreads if people simply go about their lives - like going to work to earn a living for their families, or like going to the market, or yes, even by taking a trip or a vacation. These activities do spread the virus, mask or no mask, social distancing or no social distancing. No question about that at all.

So what is your expectation? That everyone in the world should stop living their life so that you can remain safe?

P. S.

**Smoking would be a great example of doing something wilfully that is harmful to both self and others. That smoking is harmful has been universally accepted after decades of research and proof.

Why, even driving can be classified as wilfully endangering others for so many reasons.

Last edited by mohansrides : 4th May 2020 at 15:19.
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