[motorworks]

I thought the speech by the PM last evening was very vague and long, like the ones you see at election rallies. He even brought up Y2K as some random example. In a situation like this, you need to get to the point, rather than saying Bharath is this and that etc. And at the end of the speech there were no specifics, about the lock down nor about COVID and nor about the exact financial stimulus. Read somewhere in the papers this morning that the financial package includes all that the financial minister announced earlier as well. So its a click bait kind of title when you see the 20lakh CR stimulus headline everywhere.

[fordday]

I will wait for the FM to come with the details today evening as mentioned.

But the way the govt is throwing out figures like 20L Cr, 10% of GDP and earlier 1.75L Cr, it seems like our govt is rolling in money

How much of it gets to deserving ones will be altogether a different matter.

Sadly in the entire speech, there was only a single mention of the migrants issue which is a humanitarian crisis now.

[yd_gli]

Originally Posted by vivek95

sincerely hoping that the below nonsense stops right away.

This and the vigilantism that has come along with it. Apparently, there is a message floating around that housing society secretaries have been given the powers of a police officer to enforce lockdown rules. All hell will break loose with people now taking it upon themselves to enforce draconian rules.

Originally Posted by aim120

I disagree, It will harm the so called companies like Okinawa scooters, which claim to make in India, they don't even have a paint booth. Majority of the electronic, electrical, machinery, tools, chemicals etc are imported from china and some of the companies which claim to Make In India, do nothing but rebadging them.

Back in the 90s we used to make electronic components like capacitors, resistors in india, even machinery and tools in India.Decades later these companies have either all shut down or are just rebadging chinese products.

Agreed.The whole "lure manufacturing companies away from China" spin by the govt is a bunch of political hubris. Ask anyone who works on the shop floor in India and he will tell you what reality is. Manufacturing prowess and the discipline to execute it doesn't come overnight. The Americans, Germans, Japanese and most recently China haven't developed it on a whim.
We lost the plot back in the 90s. Now, most Indian manufacturing is built on final assembly of components, horrible cost out attempts of existing western designs and of course jugaad. Anybody who thinks we can implement precision molding, machining, casting etc at Chinese volumes and still be profitable is on a trip. The Chinese did it with substantial financial backing/ownership from their govt in SMEs. Post Covid I don't think the Indian govt will have any money to left to bankroll the huge investments needed to fund such activities. Even before Covid we never had the skilled labor to take on such processes. Now it's only a pipe dream.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by aim120

Can you elaborate on the bolded part. If a building has a covid cases, that is the right thing to do.

No, it is not. Any person known to be positive would have been placed in a hospital or at least quarantine. After that how is that building or area different than any other? You have to take the same precautions whether you go into that building or any other. This illogical paranoia that somehow this virus would remain lingering in the air or the surroundings of an infected person has to end. At the most, they can disinfect common touch points like handrails and lift buttons. Anything beyond that is useless and only creates panic and hinders smooth functioning of normal lives. The only time such a restriction is plausible is if a large number of people in that building, say at least 10% are found positive and the authorities suspect a large scale epidemic AND are planning to test everyone in the next few days. Then it would make sense to cordon off a building or a few days. This declaring an entire area a containment zone or the entire district as red based on a few cases is not sustainable. As we get to a few lakh cases, it would become impossible to seal off areas and quarantine anyone with minimal contact with the person. Otherwise if we seal off say 1000 people for each case, you can imagine everyone getting sealed off as we reach a few lakhs.

[akhilesh]

I haven’t gone through the full speech quite frankly because I don’t think I have the patience to sit through half hour hyperboles but I wonder if the package includes spending on personal largesse such as brand new jumbo jets for travel and spend on whim such as remodelling Lutyens for no good reason what so ever.

https://www.gqindia.com/get-smart/co...u-need-to-know

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com...le31160407.ece

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by fordday

I will wait for the FM to come with the details today evening as mentioned.

But the way the govt is throwing out figures like 20L Cr, 10% of GDP and earlier 1.75L Cr, it seems like our govt is rolling in money

How much of it gets to deserving ones will be altogether a different matter.

Sadly in the entire speech, there was only a single mention of the migrants issue which is a humanitarian crisis now.

That whole speech was entirely unnecessary. A news flash on channels would have been sufficient if one looks at the gist.
The whole purpose of the speech was to put across two reminders , 60 years and 6 years. That was it. The entire country was sitting in front of Tvs waiting for word on the lockdown, and that was passed off.

[vivek95]

Originally Posted by aim120

Can you elaborate on the bolded part. If a building has a covid cases, that is the right thing to do.

Surely I will. Sorry, I beg to differ, it never was the right thing to do. However, if you are pointing out to covid cases ( plural, meaning significant number in the complex have been infected ), then it still makes sense. I am a Doctor, first hand encountering Covid positives and I know for sure that authorities have sealed down a building or hospital immediately after even 1 covid positive case was detected in the premises. This kind of irrational illogical approach will only heighten our paranoia to insane levels, diminish our ability to tackle this virus sensibly backed by whatever available scientific data, clinical profile of the disease and statistics we currently have. But with that kind of irrational nonsensical harsh measures of clamping down, we will eternally get stuck in this game of "lockdown-containment-ease down-contain again". What is the end point to this ??

When just a couple of individuals in a building turn positive, rather than containment and imprisonment of rest of the society members, measures like sanitisation and fumigation of common lobbies, corridors and lifts should be quickly undertaken.There is no dearth of instances of infected persons getting positive again after being discharged to home. So, how long will you contain a building ?? Someone from your building turns positive with a mild fever, gets admitted to hospital and now your building is sealed. That person comes back after about 15 days with a negative report and full recovery and is home quarantined. Your building is taken off from containment zone now. But soon he may have recurrence of fever and turns positive again. So, now what next, seal the building again ?? I am not stating a hypothetical scenario here, such cases have actually happened across the globe and that's why all the slow voicing out of "better to live with this virus" has started far and wide. All the major hospitals in Mumbai now have atleast one Covid positive patient to have had a temporary stay before getting shifted out to a Covid designated tertiary hospital or a care centre. So, can we contain these hospitals ( most of them which are housed in a tower or complex ) just because a Covid positive case had lived there ?? That's precisely what the poster in my pic was suggesting - do not enter as there is a covid positive case Seriously ?? I have 40-50 Covid positive individuals admitted at the hospital where I work in Mumbai and by that logic, no normal non-covid patient should even make a visit for any minor ailment.

Thankfully, sane guidelines have slowly started coming out. Govt has recently issued a revised discharge policy where in asymptomatic/mildly symptomatic covid positives will be home quarantined or discharged quickly from the hospitals without a negative report. I support this move and hopefully this should stop all the stupidity going around. BMC, Mumbai has already stopped contact tracing, I am told. More and more emphasis is laid on home isolation/quarnatine even for a lab confirmed Covid positive individual who is Asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic. This is the first step towards learning to live with this virus.

There is a rising evidence that countries which had controlled the crisis well, like Germany, are now witnessing a spike after easing down. Germany however is not resorting to knee-jerk reaction and their criteria to reinforce lockdown still looks sane ( although I am against the lockdown ). 50 positives over a period of one week from a single locality is what their cut-off. This virus is super contagious to incredible levels and the world has slowly begun to realise that lockdown is not a long term solution. Let's not be under the impression the virus will magically disappear after a few months of lockdown or containment unless Sun and temperatures and some other natural factor really has some effect.


Reason why Sweden model will eventually be emulated across the globe, not a best solution, but sustainable in the long run

[civic-sense]

If there is one thing that got exposed big time during this pandemic, it is the ineffective leadership we have in this country. I am willing to give all the benefit of doubt I can, since this is an once-in-a-lifetime pandemic, but it is abundantly clear that the govt does not seem to have any plan whatsoever to handle this.

I love listening to speeches, and I can sit though long ones with ease. But the sham that was telecast yesterday got me wondering whether there was even a need for such an address. Among all the gas that was emitted, all I could gather was this:

(1) There is a lockdown 4.0 (bigger and better as the smartphone advts claim)

(2) A relief package that has a lot of zeros in it (let your eyeballs roll)

Seriously, I wanted to hear better. I wanted to hear what our long term plans are. Its been more than 2 months since Corona set foot in this land, and we don't have a plan yet? We had 3 lockdowns already and there is no report card on how we fared?

What did the govt do in the last 2 months? Made us sit at home (for good reason - so I support), made us clang pots and pans, made us light diyas and crackers, showered flowers from the sky. Other than these drama what has our country's leadership done?

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by vivek95

Surely I will. Sorry, I beg to differ, it never was the right thing to do... I am a Doctor, first hand encountering Covid positives and I know for sure that authorities have sealed down a building or hospital immediately after even 1 covid positive case was detected in the premises. This kind ...

Honestly, I am now more scared of our government and its illogical diktats than the actual SARS-COV2 virus.

[TwinAlco]

Originally Posted by vivek95

There is a rising evidence that countries which had controlled the crisis well, like Germany, are now witnessing a spike after easing down. Germany however is not resorting to knee-jerk reaction and their criteria to reinforce lockdown still looks sane ( although I am against the lockdown ). 50 positives over a period of one week from a single locality is what their cut-off. This virus is super contagious to incredible levels and the world has slowly begun to realise that lockdown is not a long term solution. Let's not be under the impression the virus will magically disappear after a few months of lockdown or containment unless Sun and temperatures and some other natural factor really has some effect.


Reason why Sweden model will eventually be emulated across the globe, not a best solution, but sustainable in the long run

Spot on! Sweden had the courage to buck the trend and try out something bold. The mass hysteria created is giving negative dividends.

For example in a town in Nellore district the first cases have come up this week in vegetable vendors due to the Koyambedu cluster. The authorities have blocked all movement in a 1km containment zone and 3km buffer zone. This was when things were limping back to normal. Now no non essential travel is permitted in the 3km buffer zone and all offices which had just opened are again closed and people are doing panic buying leading to shortages.

How long can people be cocooned up. In such scenarios how will companies open when no one knows what will happen the next hour leave alone the next day.

[luvDriving]

I did not watch the PM on television because I was playing with my daughter. We have this daily ritual of playing with her dolls (some pretend play) after I shut down the laptop for the day and she expects me to abide by it rigorously. But going by the reactions here and over other social media platforms, I am glad that I did not watch or listen to him yesterday.

I mean people from all walks of life were intently listening for any information regarding further lockdown / relaxation of lockdown / restarting daily life / how will daily life change / migrants situation and loads of other issues. And what do we get ? Self reliance , really ? I mean we have already made the migrants self reliant - they have started walking for miles on end towards their homes on their own two feet. Now its the turn of the rest of the country.

I am sorry for such vitriolic comments but then that is the level of frustration that comes from lack of any sense of direction from those expected to give it. Just yesterday the top official in Pune here announced that as a last resort, the containment zones in Pune will go into extreme lockdown for 6 days. Even essentials shops are shut. This as a last resort and if this fails too then what ? Shoot people at sight I suppose.

Anyway I think this will be the way forward. People will begin opening shops until the Police come along and shut them. The police will ignore such shops in areas with no new patients. Some knee jerk reactions are also to be expected. The economy will limp along for a long time to come.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by vivek95

When just a couple of individuals in a building turn positive, rather than containment and imprisonment of rest of the society members, measures like sanitisation and fumigation of common lobbies, corridors and lifts should be quickly undertaken.

Refreshing to hear medical professionals advocating a measured approach. Relieved to see that the government's approach also seems to be changing, going by news reports and what I can see around me with things visibly opening up. During the initial stages, I guess it was understandable that extreme measures were implemented because of the panic of the unknown.

Still, I think a lot of areas, even without any cases, will continue to clamp down on several things for some time and I'm pretty sure a lot of residents will also be happy to continue with "strict measures". There are a couple of streets near my neighborhood that 'self-isolated' a month or so ago by blocking the entrances to their street using flowerpots and plastic rope. That still hasn't been removed yet! Fair enough, each person will need to gauge how much they want to expose themselves in the coming days. And if they want to remain indoors till 2021, 2022 (or whenever the vaccine is ready!)

Hopefully the rest of us can start getting back to some sort of normal life (with sensible precautions).

[Turbanator]

Was listening to Health Minister a while back, he categorically said, that spread of disease via migrants is a non-issue as these people never came into contact with people who bought this disease from overseas and like that.. wonder if he was asked this opinion 6 weeks before or has come out with this new explanation now?? It just pains to see most actions of the present day administration.

[vivek95]

Originally Posted by luvDriving

Just yesterday the top official in Pune here announced that as a last resort, the containment zones in Pune will go into extreme lockdown for 6 days. Even essentials shops are shut. This as a last resort and if this fails too then what ? Shoot people at sight I suppose.
.

Sorry for an insignificant post but of all the metros, Pune in particular has totally become lunatic Wondering what would be the plight of Punekars if the situation was exactly vice-versa for Mumbai and Pune ( Pune being the worst hit ). I think the authorities in Pune need to be screened for a possible endemic mental illness. Absolutely foolish ways of implementing lockdown right from day one.

Ironically, Pune also happens to be the headquarter for an apex National Virology institute, Serum institute of India, another Pune based company which developed first indigenous testing kit and so on, all of which are in the forefront fighting Covid-19 in India and also representing India on a global map.

[The Rationalist]

Originally Posted by luvDriving

Just yesterday the top official in Pune here announced that as a last resort, the containment zones in Pune will go into extreme lockdown for 6 days. Even essentials shops are shut. This as a last resort and if this fails too then what ? Shoot people at sight I suppose.

Only one way to describe the methods of officials each enforcing their own methods all over the country, is that by the Joker “Madness as you know is like gravity, all it takes is just a push”. Most of the officials right now remind me of the Joker, anarchy is their grand plan I guess.