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View Poll Results: Do you support the lockdown extension?
Yes 299 47.46%
No 244 38.73%
I'm unsure 87 13.81%
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Old 18th May 2020, 16:22   #2041
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

People who are so worried about an estimated Covid-19 death toll because of the relaxation, should visit Mumbai and just be alongside a frontline physician for one shift and witness the pleads and cries of non--Covid patients not getting access to Emergency department or ICU. God knows, how many people died due to dialysis, MI, intraparenchymal hemorrhages, metabolic complications etc. And before you counter me with covid statistics, remember that the clinical conditions I have mentioned have all got well established medical and surgical treatment protocols. But what we are doing is let them die, because the distribution of beds to covid vs non-covid has been a huge mess in a medically advanced city like Mumbai.

Media instilled a deep seated fear in the minds of public about Covid. Even though MOHFW is now coming up with rational guidelines on discharge, admission criteria etc. the already admitted stable Covid positive patients are adamantly refusing to leave the hospitals, picking up fights with hospital administration, insisting on tests until negative and what not. All this at the expense of an actual critical non-covid patient left unattended outside the main gates of the hospital.

If anyone wants to have a first hand account of why so many of us doctors ourselves are opposing this extreme bias towards Covid-19, visit Mumbai right now. I want to see how many are able to get an hassle free access to Emergency department just to get an ECG and a cardiac biomarker done in case of a chest pain.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 28th May 2020 at 07:27. Reason: edited for better readability
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Old 18th May 2020, 16:55   #2042
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
Not Correct!!

Antibody testing is for screening and it's not for diagnosis of Covid-19. If a person is tested positive for antibodies, it doesn't mean he/she for sure has Covid-19, could be an ongoing case or recovered too. Positive antibody test won't add any new cases unless it's confirmed by RT-PCR.
Thanks for the correction !! Unfortunately I am not able to edit my original post as I think there is a time constraint in team-bhp.

However, once antibody testing is available, there would be a surge in 'suspected' cases (i.e. positive antibody cases) leading to more people lining up for RT-PCR testing, and consequently more RT-PCR positives.

Last edited by DigitalOne : 18th May 2020 at 16:56.
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Old 18th May 2020, 17:02   #2043
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by balenoed_ View Post
Why Kerala in the list, a state which has way lesser cases at the moment?
Probably, they are anticipating an increase in cases with all the NRI's coming back into Kerala.

They will be a lot of pressure on the state government from the local leaders in Mangaluru just like the last time so its understandable if the state government preempted the whole thing.

Last edited by JithinR : 18th May 2020 at 17:03.
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Old 18th May 2020, 17:46   #2044
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

What is this, I've lost count! Lockdown 4.1 now? I hope it isn't Lockdown 5.0, or we will have to cut&paste all our previous comments back to this thread?

...Being only half serious, I know. Some people have changed their views as we have gone along.

And me? I now think it would be better to be far more focussed, Whole metro areas should maybe not be Red Zones: focus in on the containment areas. It has been a half-hearted lock-down/social-distancing, proving that that is not good enough.

I am shocked that workers are, after weeks now, still out there on the roads. Buses, trains, aplenty lie idle. This is a disaster of humanity, public-health, and economy.

I am very worried that arms of the cyclone may make the lives of these people even more intolerable, washing away what little they have left. And wherever it does make landfall (difficult to predict and models will vary) I fear for the people there. As if they do not have enough to worry about at this time.
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Old 18th May 2020, 18:06   #2045
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

I haven't seen this kind of traffic since the first lockdown began!
India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020-20200518_175921.jpg

(This is Lalbagh Bridge in Parel for reference)

Any idea why the sudden rise in traffic?
Has lockdown 4.0 relaxed so many restrictions?

Edit- The jam cleared out in 30 mins, but was really surprised to see it for the first time in 2 months now.

Last edited by Pratyush2407 : 18th May 2020 at 18:16.
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Old 18th May 2020, 22:24   #2046
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by balenoed_ View Post

Quote:
Karnataka not to allow entry of people from Gujarat, Maharashtra, Kerala, TN: CM BS Yediyurappa

Karnataka Chief Minister BS Yediyurappa on Monday said that people from Gujarat, Maharashtra, Kerala and Tamil Nadu will not be allowed in the state till May 31.
Why Kerala in the list, a state which has way lesser cases at the moment?
Well, someone heard and fixed it.

India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020-whatsapp-image-20200518-22.17.06.jpeg

One another example that the government is clue less and no idea on what they are executing. Cannot blame them considering the immense pressure they have been under and the chaos done due to this damn virus.

Last edited by balenoed_ : 18th May 2020 at 22:41.
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Old 18th May 2020, 22:53   #2047
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Even after easing of restrictions in red zone for e-commerce, why this message from 'Amazon'?

COVID-19 Delivery Restrictions
Considering the extensive lockdowns in effect, and restriction in movements it creates, we are unable to deliver in your area.

COVID-19 is an unprecedented situation for all of us. Our customers have shown that they rely on us even more than usual during this period to deliver essential items to them for their daily needs. At the same time, safety of our associates and compliance with local laws and guidance is paramount. We are continuously evaluating the situations and we'll resume deliveries as soon as we are able to do so.
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Old 18th May 2020, 22:59   #2048
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by balenoed_ View Post
Cannot blame them considering the immense pressure they have been under and the chaos done due to this damn virus.
One little correction there -

As has now been well acknowledged, well accepted, and very well publicized - "The virus has not caused any chaos, it has just exposed our chaotic system!"
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Old 18th May 2020, 23:46   #2049
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

What were we expecting when we were spending ₹4,00,000 crore on Military and ₹60,000 crore on health? Will we ever have an equivalent health budget as that of military, I don’t think so. We have spend like this for 70 years, even if we want to reverse the course and build a world class system it will take a decade. Is it possible, of course it is, but will the governments do that is the million dollar question? We all have made mistakes, hope someone higher up has learnt a lession. It will take only one leader to change the course of history, there have never been a more oppurtune moment in our history.
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Old 18th May 2020, 23:56   #2050
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Our association did a survey of around 100 helpers employed in our apartment. They were contacted on phone numbers in our database. Some findings from the survey.

1)Around 85% and 65% were paid full salary in March and April respectively. Less than 5% paid in half.
2)They are not looking desperately for money as of now. The association was looking forward to provide ration kit and subsistence pay if they were in a desperate situation.
3)Only one or two persons have gone to their native places.
4)They are eager to get back to work at the earliest.

So there is still some hope and situation may not be as grim as it is made out to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rationalist View Post
What were we expecting when we were spending ₹4,00,000 crore on Military and ₹60,000 crore on health?
How will you explain US and UK topping the death charts if the quality of health system and model were to be the benchmarks? People are fleeing these countries to get better Covid care.

Last edited by poloman : 18th May 2020 at 23:59.
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Old 19th May 2020, 00:13   #2051
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMaruru View Post
Even after easing of restrictions in red zone for e-commerce, why this message from 'Amazon'?

COVID-19 Delivery Restrictions
Considering the extensive lockdowns in effect, and restriction in movements it creates, we are unable to deliver in your area.
This is mainly coming for me when i select a TV or AC to deliver. For other stuff like mobiles, laptops, cameras etc the delivery is scheduled. So, I guess Amazon is having trouble delivering big appliances. Same scenario with Flipkart.
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Old 19th May 2020, 00:26   #2052
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman View Post
How will you explain US and UK topping the death charts if the quality of health system and model were to be the benchmarks? People are fleeing these countries to get better Covid care.
I think we cannot directly correlate the burden of the disease/pathogen per se and the standards of the healthcare infrastructure for a given place, country and its geographical region. Three major determinants for any pathogen are - agent, host and environment. For SARS--Cov2, all the three are still under extensive study and nothing has reached any conclusion yet. So,not only India, but South Asian countries are in general dealing with low Covid-19 mortality rates as compared to the Western world. This is perplexing to the scientific community and they are trying to explore answers.

But one can certainly think in this way - by any chance if the Covid-19 picture had similarly panned out in India as in Italy/Spain/UK/USA would we have been able to handle it even for a fortnight ?? Mumbai has started gasping due to mere rise in cases, wonder what would happen if the Lombardy, Italy scene had replicated here by now.
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Old 19th May 2020, 00:26   #2053
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman View Post
How will you explain US and UK topping the death charts if the quality of health system and model were to be the benchmarks? People are fleeing these countries to get better Covid care.
Currently Cases/Million population is still low in India. This was due to the lockdown which allowed the health care system to accommodate them. But now as lockdowns are being relaxed, health care capacity will be overburdened. We will see more deaths happening due to Covid and Non-Covid diseases.

Even when there's no Covid, sick patients used to lie on the floors of wards and corridors of hospitals, and used to wait for hours in the ERs, and many even die due to waiting. We will see more deaths once health care systems collapse, I believe, it has happened already in Mumbai.

And we can't do anything about it. Buildings can be made in a month and medical equipments ready in a week. But then, how will we get doctors, nurses and technicians ready? You can't train a person to be a doctor or nurse in 2 weeks. It takes atleast 10 years of hard work to become one. Also, unlike other countries, we can't import medical staff. No one will be able to work here, the condition of govt hospitals is terrible when there's no pandemic, now it has become worse. All this has been due to the low spending by multiple governments on healthcare. And even if govt spends money, people generally are unlikely to be benefited.
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Old 19th May 2020, 00:35   #2054
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman View Post
How will you explain US and UK topping the death charts if the quality of health system and model were to be the benchmarks? People are fleeing these countries to get better Covid care.
Government spending on healthcare is not to ensure cutting edge technology in hospitals (since you cited U.S.A and U.K...First one is a horrible example which tells me you didn't understand the OPs point or don't know the reality of the US healthcare system and the second has been dealing with a mediocre healthcare system for some time now). In a country like India private hospitals will fill that need.

Government spending is needed to ensure consistent and excellent quality of healthcare with widespread accessibility (this doesn't mean for the ones like us living in apartments in metro cities.. Rather the ones living in remote locations and even if they are economically weak).
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Old 19th May 2020, 02:23   #2055
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Screenings:
What use are the temperature checks in the case of Wuhan virus? India quickly banned the flights from China and Iran which they could, but when exactly did India ban the flights from Dubai, Europe and US? It took forever. March? March end? It is not easy to do that at political level and India couldnít do it. So India responded early is ot correct because cases eventually came from these countries, not China.

Increasing cases:
More tests = more cases, as simple as that.

Community transmission:
When most infected people are asymptomatic, who is going to test these people. They wonít go to a doctor and vice-versa. But they will keep infecting others. So basically there is no way of telling how many cases are there. Testing is the only way but why and exactly how will they test people without symptoms? CT is there and flourishing.
(80 out of 100 in MH donít have symptoms? They got discovered because they were high risk individuals)

Lockdown:
Lift it. Please google how many kids in India die of dysentery in an year. Malaria. AIDS. TB. Accidents. Cancer. Millions no doubt. So all these will die without any medical support. More will doe because of the same. People will die from hunger. Lost jobs. Economy has already gone for a toss. Now compare this with 4000 deaths from Wuhan virus. Scale it to an year.

But who cares? For a politician, this could be an opportunity than a real problem. When everything becomes a slogan and stops at that, when doing something is less important than being seen doing it, there is not much that can be done about things.
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