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View Poll Results: Do you support the lockdown extension?
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Old 1st June 2020, 23:27   #2266
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

One may or may not support govt moves but the truth is migrant workers suffered and suffered horribly.

Either our decision makers never cared them or worst they are incompetent. If they too fell for the paranoia of that time then this is a comedy show.
When they have all the resources at hand and could consult almost anyone in the world starting from Trump, they still went on making mistakes.
Even as they made mistakes they tried to put a spin to it and notoriously tried to pass on the blame to others, sometimes even to the victims themselves.

What is painful is some of our countrymen try to justify these as okay by comparing with other countries.

Even if many of the developed countries were doing lockdown, it did't mean we have to follow. This is monkey see monkey do business.
Our social and economic parameters are of quite different standards.
I think none of these countries who went for lockdown had people walk 1000 kms to go home. Or had any problems in maintaining social distancing protocols.

It is without doubt that govts failed miserably especially the GoI because they had all the powers to themselves. They should have gone above and beyond their normal functioning and politicking. The buck stops with them.

If people here forgot, let me remind that the migrants started moving on foot from next day of lockdown itself on 26 March. To contain the bad press, govts pushed them back and forced them into shelters. Anyone can imagine what would anyone like to prefer, suffering in a shelter for unknown period or going home by whatever means.
Our solicitor general were on record telling SC that as on 31 march there are no migrants on road.

In April the second wave of migrations started.

In May the third wave was free for all.

From the beginning itself, govt were aware of the migrant movements issue but hardly acted on it.

Reports now coming in that a hindi cinema actor and his team did more than what govt could do. To our utter horror, a union minister shamelessly appreciated his work. Mind it, she is a union minister of the mighty GoI, helpless like us.

Then there are the greedy business interest in keeping the migrants from leaving to their homes, like the Karnataka govt withdrawing shramik trains under pressure from the real estate lobby.

Latest is Karnataka reduced shramik trains to one train daily saying there are hardly anyone willing to travel. But you still see hordes of migrants waiting to travel in all the camps and in Palace Ground itself. Even today I got desperate calls from volunteers seeking material donations like toothpaste, soap, baby milk etc. The whole shramik train business was so behind the screens that no one knows when his turn will come to board a train. Needless to say touts were everywhere promising everything and looting whatever last of the rupees these migrants had. Heard that cyber cafes are charging 100 to 300 rupees for filling online forms for these migrants.

Even after one month (starting from 01 May) railways could not complete transport of the migrant workers to their homes.
Someone here mentioned figure like 8cr migrants cannot be shifted before announcing lockdown. But the figures seems too high. Till today railways moved 54 lakhs migrants. Even if we account for another 50 lakhs by walk, on cycles and getting on trucks or buses, it cannot be more than 1 cr.

Saddest part is govt refuse to acknowledge that there was a mistake even though it is understood whatever happened cannot be undone. This translates to ignorance of the problem and no sustainable action on the field level. So the poor remains poor and continues to suffer.

Ashwin Mahesh, a public figure in Bangalore noted
"People who have been in power for years are seeing their people walk 1500 km just to be home. This is the real barometer of their achievement. What they can reliably deliver is more poverty. Thats what they are good at." Link


Only if the govts listened to other voices.
Swaminathan Aiyar wrote on April 19 that if we do not ease the lockdown now we will get the worst of both worlds, economy and pandemic.
Quoting from his article
"Data is too limited and suspect to prove or disprove the Imperial College model. Maybe the disease is less lethal and fast-spreading than the model predicts. Maybe it is less effective in tropical countries. Nobody really knows its medical outcomes. But we do know its economic outcome will be dreadful." Link

His words are slowly and painfully turning out to be true.

Fordday.

Last edited by fordday : 1st June 2020 at 23:32. Reason: typo
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Old 1st June 2020, 23:37   #2267
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by Aditya_Bhp View Post
The lockdown was very successful in Kerala and the people cooperated with the government and stayed at home.
This is very true. Public cooperation is a must in such scenarios.
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Old 1st June 2020, 23:57   #2268
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Everyone (including me) is afraid of unknowns of Covid-19. It has increased the fear in our minds and no matter how much we deny, it has taken a toll on our mental strength. Due to fear, we are not able to give our 100% while fighting against Covid-19.

Covid-19 is here to stay for a while. Let's try to overcome that fear of unknown in our minds a bit and face Covid-19 with at least 80% of our mental abilities. Let's choose to make the rational and informed decisions. We can, we will and we have to defeat Covid-19.
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Old 1st June 2020, 23:58   #2269
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by thecarguy View Post
This press release is just the taskforce's attempts to shift the blame and absolve themselves off any responsibility.
So, while this Taskforce "believed" in April that the government implementation was backed by epidemiologists and it was good decision making by the govt. it has washed its hands off due to the humanitarian crises. As I said, hindsight is 20/20.
The task force consists of people who are very respected and have taken great efforts to reach the positions where they are now. They have no gain to make by shifting the blame now but the moot point is that the task force was constituted in April only.

You have quoted a part and now I am quoting something from the same report and this is the first point that the joint statement makes :

[Review lockdown, replace with cluster restrictions: The ongoing nationwide lockdown needs to be reviewed and replaced with cluster specified restrictions (as required) based on epidemiological assessment; reasonable criteria and milestones for control of the current phase of the pandemic in the country should be set, taking into account that successive wave of cases is possible; there is no conceivable scenario of elimination in the immediate/short run]

Now does that make any sense? I think that the Task force came up with this reading in the first joint statement way back in April, what did the authorities do? They came back to extend the lockdown and you want me to believe the government listened to the epidemiologists and specialists in the panel and that they are now shifting blame and absolve themselves of any responsibility?

Truth is, the authorities did not care for the lives which mattered at all. Even after two months of lockdown and so many deaths due to negligence, the authorities are such shameless that they don’t even have the decency to at least apologise for the deaths due to the lockdown. The government in power is celebrating one year of completion of the second term amidst these pandemic days completely oblivious to the pains of the migrant workers and the innumerable deaths that happened because the hospitals stopped admitting regular patients!

Last edited by ABHI_1512 : 2nd June 2020 at 00:06.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 00:10   #2270
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalOne View Post
My in-laws are coming to Bangalore from abroad (by Vande Bharat/Air India). Few questions:

1. For international travellers, some sites are saying it is

2. How is the travel from the Blr airport to the IQ centres taken care? Do we have to arrange this?

3. Are visitors allowed (with social distancing) to the IQ during quarantine period? More specifically can we provide home-cooked meals to my in-laws?
Please see the sevasindhu website for the latest rules from MoHFW, GoK.

Only symptomatic cases go to institutional quarantine and GoK takes care of it.

Not sure, but I heard visitors are allowed now. Earlier it wasn't.

Also check the covid19 portal of GoK link
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Old 2nd June 2020, 00:25   #2271
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by smooth indian View Post

The worst hit state by a significant margin is Maharashtra, particularly Mumbai which is easily the densest city in India. So even though kerala has a higher population density, it doesn't have ultra dense pockets such as dharavi.
The complications arising from events such as the 'Tablighi Jamat' also hit the state harder. Kerala being at the southern end was spared some of these flows after the initial rush.
Precisely. I can tell what happened in Pune. Initially, the cases that were detected from people who had traveled abroad were detected and contained with proper contact tracing and self isolation measures. These cases were mostly from well-to-do and the 'educated' class and in comparatively less dense areas with better hygiene standards. At one point people actually thought that Pune is under control. Then, the next 'wave' of cases started coming from slum areas and densely populated areas of Pune. In this second wave, quite a few cases were fruit and vegetable sellers who were working closely in wholesale markets which were in turn linked to some people who were traced to the Tablighi jamat event. Even today, the highest concentration of cases is in the slums and densely populated areas where most of the people working in wholesale fruit, vegetable, fish/meat markets reside. I am not squarely blaming anyone here but the idea is to understand that the lockdown measures have worked under ideal conditions. The slum clusters that have been contained strictly have started showing results, but its a long way to go till they reach single digits.

No states can be compared here as the dynamics are different. Kerala has seen how dangerous it can get with the Nipah virus, plus I believe the administration itself is better managed. Not to mention many people in Kerala work in healthcare industry so they may know the basics of dealing with such diseases. There is also a general sense of better hygiene, you will not see people spitting in public places. I haven't seen a city as clean as Cochin.

Compare that to Pune, there was an incident in April where the Police ordered about 200 odd people to get tested for Covid at the government hospital, when they arrived at the hospital, they were asked to leave by the administration as they cited lack of paperwork. The police came to know about this and reported it to the government and then the DM dissolved hospital's admin team and took over. The 200 odd people got tested this time and about 40 were found positive, but not before they had gone home and spread the disease for some time Then, there are some cities like Solapur. The first Covid case was detected on 12 April, that case was detected after the patient's death and he was a shopkeeper and some say his shop was open even after 23rd March. The administration there is so bad that nobody was following any social distancing measures even during 2.0 and 3.0 and now some of my friends staying there are claiming that almost 50% of the total population may have contracted the disease, but is not aware (asymptomatic). Its only a few days back when some people in the administration have been replaced and things have started falling in place. The markets will be closed till 30th June.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 08:52   #2272
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

During normal times, as per Indian Railways it transports the population of Australia daily (approximately 3 crores)
Source : https://www.newindianexpress.com/sta...y-2012915.html

If even we consider 1/3rd of this number removing suburban passengers, the number still comes to 1 crore passengers daily.

If we had let normal train operations run for 10 days everyone could gave reached wherever they wanted to.

Ideally so many people would not even have left if they knew they had to stay put only for 21 days. Then this daily changing of rules. Clarifications for clarification, utter chaos on ground led to anxiety and despair for all people stranded.

About mapping the containment clusters, this could have been done even at end of lockdown 1.0. There was no clear roadmap or plan.

I believe we lost the plot at lockdown 1.0. This was the time we had to chart out our strategy. But mostly it felt government was feeling the virus will go away and the delhi cluster happened. Even the last moment announcement of lockdown extensions pointed to that.

On a side note I read a marathi joke saying the extended lockdowns have made the government look like a lungi. Only a single knot on the top but everything open below!

Last edited by benbsb29 : 2nd June 2020 at 09:11. Reason: Corrected typo.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 09:16   #2273
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by smooth indian View Post

.


The worst hit state by a significant margin is Maharashtra, particularly Mumbai which is easily the densest city in India. So even though kerala has a higher population density, it doesn't have ultra dense pockets such as dharavi. It is precisely in these pockets where COVID-19 hit hard.
I agree with you. Kerala has done a tremendous job and that is commendable no doubt, however Mumbai cannot be compared to Kerala. The dynamics of Mumbai city alone are totally different as compared to any other city or state in the country. Had Mumbai city in its present avataar been in Kerala, I seriously doubt anything significantly different would have been achieved w.r.t the Covid crisis. That said, there was a wrong culture started in Mumbai initially in handling the Covid cases and that has begun to show its effects now.

I keep attending patient calls trying to convince them a mere covid positive report does not warrant admission as long as the patient is mildly symptomatic, but the standard response I get is - " we want to admit to be on the safer side ". This mindset is a disaster for the healthcare system. Needless to say, I don't convince much because some things are not under my control. I have developed a strong hatred towards news channels because they are primarily responsible for all the fear and panic to have spread around.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 2nd June 2020 at 10:22. Reason: Trimmed quote
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Old 2nd June 2020, 12:01   #2274
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

I agree to the point that migrants crisis could have been handled in a better way. They should have been provided with adequate food, shelter, in the place of their work itself by the GoI.

However, I disagree that people should have been allowed to travel to their home states in the starting of lockdown 1.0 itself. For example - I am working in Hyderabad, but I belong to a small village in Northern Bihar - near Madhubani. In 2017, there was 1 medical shop for the whole village (digest the fact that it was 2017 and not 1947). Now imagine, all the migrants rushing towards home to different parts of India. If community spread had already started by March 23, then it would have increased many-fold during the travel back home. And now finally imagine, what would have happened to such villages like my own if even one person got needed to be admitted in a hospital (forget about ICU and critical care).

At least in the bigger cities there is a chance of surviving if you need emergency healthcare, but not in the rural areas.

It's a systematic loss at different levels (over the last 60 years) and should not be linked to any one specific action.

Last edited by Amit_breakfree : 2nd June 2020 at 12:22.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 12:34   #2275
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by Amit_breakfree View Post
...

At least in the bigger cities there is a chance of surviving if you need emergency healthcare, but not in the rural areas....
Access doesn't equal affordability. I have access to Ferrari and Lamborghini (showrooms) too.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 12:35   #2276
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Not sure how long we will live in past and keep repeating the same fault finding stories. Can we look forward and do whatever we could, to help these needy people?


The best way to help migrants and poor is to kick start your normal economic activities. Our association has allowed entry of all maids. All self employed professionals were allowed for electrical,plumbing and other utility works. The doomsayers were sidelined.

We are providing minor utility works to our regular contractors even if those are not very critical. This way we have brought work close to 100 maids/helpers and more than 20-30 utility workers on a daily basis. This is at a community level. Individuals also can take such small measures to sustain cash flow to the lowest strata.

Last edited by poloman : 2nd June 2020 at 12:38.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 12:59   #2277
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
The best way to help migrants and poor is to kick start your normal economic activities. Our association has allowed entry of all maids. All self employed professionals were allowed for electrical,plumbing and other utility works. The doomsayers were sidelined.
It is definitely a good way to function, and I admire your steps in this regard. I only wish more people were this pragmatic - these idiotic stories of being locked down forever because someone six floors above coughed thrice are enough to make one cry.


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Not sure how long we will live in past and keep repeating the same fault finding stories.
Those who do not remember history are condemned to repeat it.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 13:33   #2278
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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...Those who do not remember history are condemned to repeat it.
Those doing the repeating are usually not the same ones doing the remembering, or they think it will somehow go differently this time, because <reasons>.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 13:42   #2279
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Not sure if this was posted here earlier, but this article is worth a read.

https://indianexpress.com/article/ex...umbai-6434766/

Of course it's not exactly the same and times have indeed changed for the better, but there's still a lot of similarities between what happened in 1896 and what's going on now. The pandemic isn't as "unprecedented" as we thought it to be. It's just infrequent and hard to predict.

If only there was a good way of transferring knowledge and learnings of previous such events across a century, and if only we had folks in high places who would read and prepare accordingly, maybe our preparation could've been different. Can never be sure though.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 13:46   #2280
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Access doesn't equal affordability. I have access to Ferrari and Lamborghini (showrooms) too.
True for cars. Here its a la public transport, for Covid its the public healthcare infrastructure that is being used.
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