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Old 12th June 2020, 20:57   #2401
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
Paying fees enables you to avail the academic services provided by the school. How does that give any "rights"?

Cheers
I paid the fees for on-campus education and with the expectation that my kids will learn in a physical classroom. I have every right to request resumption of school.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 12th June 2020 at 21:04. Reason: Removing the unwanted bits. Please be civil in the forum discussions Mohan. Thank you.
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Old 12th June 2020, 20:57   #2402
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Hence his thoughts, dont matter !
53 percent of the total two-wheeler export volumes from India are from Bajaj. Isn't that a great atmanirbhar story? He has been there, done that .
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I dont remember him saying the same before. Maybe he was not asked before is what you could say He has analyzed the data retrospectively and cant be called a messenger.
Many folks, including those on here, had come to the same conclusion during the early days of Lockdown 1.0. Is there an award for saying that early? What is the use, who is listening? Anyway, it not the job of Bajaj to contain the epidemic but he has every right to question, before or after the fact.
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Completely agree that nothing can replace the "classroom" feel for the students, and even my child is terribly missing her friends, but nothing is more important than her safety and health for me.
Schools provide an environment for socializing and in few instances an environment for developing capability in sports. Online education loses here. But when it comes to imparting academic education, online is far efficient and will result in the democratizing of quality education. I think students will learn better online and the quality gap between developed (say good schools) & developing (bad or average schools) countries will reduce.

Last edited by msdivy : 12th June 2020 at 21:03.
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Old 12th June 2020, 23:44   #2403
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

45 kids from DPS have contracted the virus. And with their families. I wish you see the principal's plea on this matter. It's on whatsapp. Please google this up as I will not wish to add to the chaos
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It is high time that the PM came online and told everyone to get back to work
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Old 13th June 2020, 00:03   #2404
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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45 kids from DPS have contracted the virus. And with their families. I wish you see the principal's plea on this matter. It's on whatsapp. Please google this up as I will not wish to add to the chaos
This is false and somebodyís imagination run wild. The Principalís plea is a regular one for the parents and nowhere there is any mention of 45 students being infected. The school being situated at sector 45 Gurgaon, high level of imagination sent the folks in social media in tizzy !!
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Old 13th June 2020, 00:25   #2405
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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45 kids from DPS have contracted the virus. And with their families. I wish you see the principal's plea on this matter. It's on whatsapp. Please google this up as I will not wish to add to the chaos
Sir,

The news is fake. There are plenty of videos like this on social media, many by prominent folks, generally sensationalising the virus and creating fear in people.

Here is the truth -

a.) The virus will absolutely spread. There is no way around this reality.

b.) The virus is largely not harmful for the vast majority of people; and especially so for children.

c.) So, the number of infections really carry no significance. These are numbers that are just fearful to look at. Thatís all.

d.) Yes, there is a small possibility of some kids being more affected than others. The parents of those kids are free to never send their kids to school. Ever. No compulsion at all.

e.) Keeping children home indefinitely is infinitely more harmful to their development. Real learning is not done by looking at a screen.

f.) I think that the danger of my kids growing up stunted; without having any experience in dealing with real life scenarios, sports or the performing arts, is far greater than them catching the virus.

g.) Again, I am not compelling any parent to send their kids to school. Their kids, their choice. I just donít want to be compelled by people to keep my kids home. My kids, my choice.

Cheers.
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Old 13th June 2020, 13:27   #2406
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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b.) The virus is largely not harmful for the vast majority of people; and especially so for children.

c.) So, the number of infections really carry no significance. These are numbers that are just fearful to look at. Thatís all.
I have become your fan now after the way you have put forth your points on this thread in the last three months .

I don't know how many watched India Today at 8 p.m yesterday. There were a couple of doctors who were debating the current situation. One gentleman was absolutely certain that we need another complete lockdown immediately citing the increasing number of cases. It should either be self imposed or just a legally forced one. Otherwise it is going to be doomsday and absolute mayhem .

While the other gentleman was looking at the bigger picture and completely against another lockdown as such highlighting the disastrous consequences.

Felt like I was watching this thread playing out on live telecast.

And the news anchor ended the show by saying " it is absolute madness to step out to a mall now just because it is open, knowing very well that there is danger lurking outside. STAY HOME! STAY SAFE! "
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Old 13th June 2020, 14:22   #2407
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

What is the travel scene like in and around Mumbai for someone who wants to do a Mumbai - Pune - Mumbai day trip by car? 3 members and a infant in a TS09 registered car Are any passes, permits required? Any chances of checks and trouble if they suspect we have been travelling from another state?
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Old 13th June 2020, 14:42   #2408
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by mohansrides View Post

Here is the truth -

a.) The virus will absolutely spread. There is no way around this reality.

b.) The virus is largely not harmful for the vast majority of people; and especially so for children.

c.) So, the number of infections really carry no significance. These are numbers that are just fearful to look at.
Thank you for saying what you said. Exactly my points ever since this madness started. If only our so called media behaved objectively instead of towing the now oft repeated ploy of fear mongering and jingoism, our country would have been in so much better shape.

The virus is contagious and that is a fact that everyone knows but it is equally true that most of the healthy population have the immunity to better this virus without much effort. The fear mongering is what has resulted in the chaos in the hospitals. Just today, I heard that almost 8-9 senior doctors have resigned from a reputed private medical college here in Calcutta fearing infections to their parents back at home. The doctors were promptly replaced though.

Tells you what fear does to even sensible people. And it is this fear that is creating havoc. Some of my friends have realised the points I have been raising from the start of the lockdown and now they have come to the conclusion that let the virus run its course now and that they are not fearful now. It took some plain logic and the clumsiness around the lockdown to understand but thatís okay

I feel for the kids locked in their houses. Some paranoid people even stopped the newspaper for the the fear of the virus ! Dare I say, I have been inviting friends during the lockdown as well to my house and using sound logic and precautions, we have had fairly decent time spent together along with the kids without feeling the pangs of the lockdown and we have done everything right perhaps to keep the virus at a safe distance probably or may be not but that doesnít matter now at least.

The real development of the kids is in the outside world and it is harsh on the kids to remain locked inside the house because of the fear for the virus. But yes, the choice is with the parents and how they think whatís best for their children should be the sole criteria- covid or no Covid !!


P.S - I have stopped watching news channels long back !
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Old 13th June 2020, 14:58   #2409
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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What is the travel scene like in and around Mumbai for someone who wants to do a Mumbai - Pune - Mumbai day trip by car? 3 members and a infant in a TS09 registered car Are any passes, permits required? Any chances of checks and trouble if they suspect we have been travelling from another state?
You will definitely require an e-pass for road travel from Mumbai to Pune and back. Somene not known directly to me drove without one, but that seems legally very risky. Without a pass you will be turned back from the first toll at Khalapur toll, Mumbai--Pune Expressway. Worse, you will be slapped with charges, so better apply for an e-pass. Mine is a KA 22 regd. car, I suspect the cops might turn more hostile towards outstate cars.
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Old 13th June 2020, 21:26   #2410
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Thank you for saying what you said. Exactly my points ever since this madness started. If only our so called media behaved objectively instead of towing the now oft repeated ploy of fear mongering and jingoism, our country would have been in so much better shape.
When our ministry here in Bangalore connected with parents to decide on reopening of schools, 99 percent of them said " we don't want schools to reopen until the number of cases in Bangalore is down to ZERO or a vaccine is available".

Some quotes from parents were something to the effect of " our children's life and health are more important than studies".

Of course, the decision is put off now.

I don't think schools can open even if they want to. Just too much pressure on them!.
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Old 13th June 2020, 21:34   #2411
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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When our ministry here in Bangalore connected with parents to decide on reopening of schools, 99 percent of them said " we don't want schools to reopen until the number of cases in Bangalore is down to ZERO or a vaccine is available".

Some quotes from parents were something to the effect of " our children's life and health are more important than studies".

Of course, the decision is put off now.

I don't think schools can open even if they want to. Just too much pressure on them!.
This is not against you but directed to the general mindset. When the administration, media and all those involved in policy making start using their brains and rely on scientific inputs and available data , automatically everyone's life and health will be taken care of. Not only that, life will actually be enhanced and made more meaningful than how aimless and stupid it is going about now.
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Old 13th June 2020, 23:02   #2412
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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I don't think schools can open even if they want to. Just too much pressure on them!.
The ignorance is too much to fight against my friend, the fear that has been drilled into the minds will not go away so soon. The schools will obviously take the easy way out rather than using the rationale route. As you said, too much pressure on them !!
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Old 14th June 2020, 01:41   #2413
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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But when it comes to imparting academic education, online is far efficient and will result in the democratizing of quality education. I think students will learn better online and the quality gap between developed (say good schools) & developing (bad or average schools) countries will reduce.
I agree with the rest of your post, but must disagree with your views on democratising education by bringing it online. There are 2 reasons why it won't help:

1. It is taken for granted, in our socioeconomic circles, that kids can be provided with a laptop / tablet and fast internet. This is not the case for most people. Even in slightly more expensive schools, there are students whose parents scrounge every penny, and those who get scholarships. It is unlikely that they will have access to laptops and broadband. Yes, Jio and smartphone penetration are a start, but they are a poor substitute.

2. Working class parents are able to both go to work once they send their children to school for the day. Most couples whose jobs are, for example, domestic help + chauffeur, or cook + security guard, rely on school to keep their children occupied and educated while they are out earning. With school from home, assuming a family has internet + device access, a parent has to be around to ensure attendance, attention, and discipline. I have no children, but I am given to believe there is a need for children under 10 to have an adult around at all times for online classes, in any socioeconomic group, just to stave off distraction.
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Old 14th June 2020, 02:11   #2414
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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I feel for the kids locked in their houses...The real development of the kids is in the outside world and it is harsh on the kids to remain locked inside the house because of the fear for the virus. But yes, the choice is with the parents and how they think whatís best for their children should be the sole criteria- covid or no Covid !!
There are two pictures below. The first one is of my classmates. We met after three decades and promptly got down to the business of making each other feel like dirt.

The next picture is of me and my physics teacher. Twenty years after I graduated. Aside from him, my school days were a blur of very memorable characters in the teaching staff. Without exception, all of the teachers were mocked. But, fast forward a few decades, and I am yet to meet someone from school who has anything but gratitude for the teachers we had. At every opportunity, I go and pay my respects to my teachers if and when I manage to get in touch with them. These are the people who gave shape to my life.

India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020-img_20150823_135817.jpg

India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020-physics-sir.jpg

This is what I want for my kids. Fast friends who don't have a single kind word to offer; and teachers who my kids will remember and be grateful for decades after they are done with their formal education.

The way things are going now,.. well, I don't think that our kids are being set up to have any meaningful relationship through which they learn, grow and become better. And as much as I can, I will fight for that to be changed.

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I agree with the rest of your post, but must disagree with your views on democratising education by bringing it online. There are 2 reasons why it won't help:

1. It is taken for granted, in our socioeconomic circles, that kids can be provided with a laptop / tablet and fast internet. This is not the case for most people. Even in slightly more expensive schools, there are students whose parents scrounge every penny, and those who get scholarships. It is unlikely that they will have access to laptops and broadband. Yes, Jio and smartphone penetration are a start, but they are a poor substitute.

2. Working class parents are able to both go to work once they send their children to school for the day. Most couples whose jobs are, for example, domestic help + chauffeur, or cook + security guard, rely on school to keep their children occupied and educated while they are out earning. With school from home, assuming a family has internet + device access, a parent has to be around to ensure attendance, attention, and discipline. I have no children, but I am given to believe there is a need for children under 10 to have an adult around at all times for online classes, in any socioeconomic group, just to stave off distraction.
Absolutely correct on both counts.

Two kids were in the news recently for having taken the extreme step just because they didn't have the tools to participate in classes during the lockdown. Very unfortunate.

As to the second point, me and my wife are in that exact situation. I am thinking that if I have to sit beside my child, what's the point of school anyway? The child has no sense of self and independence from the parent during the actual learning. Also, the class is pure pandemonium and the teacher is struggling to hold the attention of 5 and 6 year olds without the benefit of physical presence. All in all, a total waste of time for that age group.


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I have become your fan now after the way you have put forth your points on this thread in the last three months :.

Thank you. But, in all fairness, there are plenty of people here who have made lucid arguments. Just to name a few - V.Narayan sir, v1p3r, and Turbanator have provided very grounding views as key people in the SME and start-up sectors. Lobogris, msdivy, subraiyr and mvadg have made some excellent arguments. Miyata provided highly informative links along with some wry humor. And of course, vivek95 and The Rationalist have brought their medical heft to the table. Also, I remember your own "pregnant or not" analogy. That was quite succinct in capturing the futility of stage-wise unlocking.

For the pro lockdown people, TRR has made some excellent data backed arguments a couple of months ago; although we have much more data now on both the severity of the disease and the cost of the lockdown; poloman sir and a few others have invested themselves in providing views that are quite empathetic to the government's catch-22, which I am glad they did, as we always need all perspectives on the table.

All in all, it has been an interesting debate. I have personally learnt a lot here.

Coming to the matter being discussed, the anecdotes are coming thick and fast.

My neighbor is a "we-are-all-going-to-die-if-we-don't-lockdown" kind of guy. His parents, aged in the late and mid 70s, live with his bachelor brother in another part of town. Early last week, both the seniors tested positive and were carted off to some isolation ward. Both sons were forbidden to see them. As expected anxiety levels were high all around. My neighbor's wife was crying and all kinds of distressing scenes in the building.

Here is where it gets interesting.

Both seniors pulled through without so much as a Paracetamol. Remarkably, uncle who is a recent cancer survivor, didn't so much as get a runny nose. All he had was a slightly scratchy throat. That's it. They tested him (and the bachelor son who lives with them) only because aunty was symptomatic with fever. In any case, both seniors are out of danger. In fact, they were never in any danger in the first place.

In the midst of all this, the bachelor son who had tested negative, had been asked to quarantine himself in his house for 2 weeks. That gentleman slipped on something in the house; fell and could not move. He was feverishly texting his brother (my neighbor) to come to his aid. Only, my neighbor couldn't go due to the quarantine at his brothers end. Finally, after a couple of HOURS an ambulance came and took the patient somewhere. Alone. No family with him in his time of pain. Unfortunately, we understand that the severity of his injuries is non-trivial. And for a long time, the ambulance team struggled to find a place for him in the medical ecosystem.

So bottom line today for my pro-lockdown neighbor (in his own words) -

"Saala DK Bose... jinko Covid hai, unke baare mein sochne ka tension nikal gaya, par jo bathroom mein gira uske baare mein sochke ek dum tension mein aa gaya hoon bhai main. Kyaa karega, kuch samajh nahin aa raha hai mereko abhi. Saala kyaa musibat hai yeh!!"*

Irony died today in my building.


P. S.

* Translation - "Sith, I am now not tense about the senior citizen Covid patients in my family, but I am really tense about the 30 year old guy who fell in the bathroom. I am at a loss as to what to do and am unable to make sense of the anything now. What a problematic situation!!"

Last edited by mohansrides : 14th June 2020 at 02:25.
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Old 14th June 2020, 10:45   #2415
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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I don't think schools can open even if they want to. Just too much pressure on them!.
+1 to that. Schools & colleges cannot open till the school/college management is protected from law suits (and worse) by panicked and irate parents if an offspring gets infected with Covid19. It won't matter where the child got infected from the school/college will still be attacked as the default suspect. No Principal wants that liability on his/her head along with years' long lawsuits. Fact is children & college students are the least vulnerable segment but try telling that to parents.

Within a family the real risks are the elderly.I have two parents {87 and 93 years of age} at home. Both ill, one quite serious. Both have nurses/medical people come in every day to attend to them. So the rules are -- both have been given a bedroom each converted halfway to a hospital room; only family members & medical attendants are allowed into that part of the house, the Laxman Rekha has been set about 30 straight line feet from their beds {fortunately our apartment is large}; everyone must wear a mask and sanitize their hands on entry into that part of the apartment; and the furniture, handles, switches etc in that part are cleaned once a day with diluted dettol. I decided on not turning the whole house upside down as others need to get on with their lives and the domestic helps needs to be able to work.

And through this phase since mid-March I've made 80 to 90 hospital visits as a part of my daily routine.

Each one of us needs to take our own call based on our priorities, circumstances, resources, etc. My only advice to fellow members is take your precautions, follow protocol, be disciplined but get on with your lives. In my earlier business in aviation every flight was a risk, every repair job was a risk, every new pilot hired was a risk and every call at 2.00 AM was a potential distress call. You addressed that by following procedures, adhering to flight safety protocol, training well, testing and getting on with the business. You cannot solve for destiny.
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