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View Poll Results: Do you support the lockdown extension?
Yes 299 47.46%
No 244 38.73%
I'm unsure 87 13.81%
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Old 15th June 2020, 11:40   #2446
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Panorama (Mys. Rd.). Which one were you quoting?
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Originally Posted by Nalin1 View Post
Hi Sebring,Which Purva was it? In which area?
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Old 15th June 2020, 11:47   #2447
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Is there any set of guidelines available for the common man to follow if there is a suspected case in one's family? For example, fever coughing and associated symptoms could be indicative of many other infections and not just CoVID. So at what stage does one determine that a visit to the doctor is needed?

A doctor's prescription is required to request a test even at a private facility, so who does a suspected patient approach to have himself examined? Will a GP suffice? If not then which specialist should one approach?

Healthcare is crumbling in places like Delhi and this may happen in several other cities. Not every person who tests positive need specialized care, but at what point does one seek hospitalization? What specific parameters can relatives of a patient whose symptoms are turning serious look at before deciding to seek help?

These are some questions which come to my mind as I realize that we are better of being prepared than just repeating the same things about administrative failure. We can only help ourselves if we can answer critical questions objectively with specific action outcomes Do we have a clear set of guidelines, FAQ ready reckoner to refer to when dealing with a suspected/positive CoVID case in the family?

Has the central or state government published any such document? If not then who does one approach regardless of location. Please note that I am referring to a fairly specific set of guidelines, without which a coherent approach to this isn't possible. I know that states have a helpline, anybody with experience of having used it?

It will be great if folks with expertise (including our own members of the medical services who have rendered yeoman service) can chime in. As VK Narayan sir said in a previous post, the best option is to have a clinical approach to this.
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Old 15th June 2020, 11:48   #2448
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
Does "we" include the government? There is no mention of the one body which actually authorises the lockdown.
And please don't say they"listen" to our ideas, our voices, and then implement them.
Sir,

Part of the answer to your question about who "we" is is in the links provided by DigitalOne below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalOne View Post
There are couple of PILs in courts (link, link) to decide whether strict lockdowns should be re-implemented in the badly affected cities . I predict this week we would see the first court ordered lockdowns in at least one of the affected cities..
Even the CM of Telangana made a statement back in May that "people want lockdown extended". So, to answer your question; yes, politicians are taking their cues from people. And big sections of the population are indeed asking for lockdowns focussing solely on the numbers of infections rather than on thinking about exactly how dangerous the virus actually is. These people are free to lock themselves down. What gives them the right to lock others down? If they do, then the compensation should come out of their pockets.


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Originally Posted by DigitalOne View Post
..One guy from the big apartment complex operates a small shop in our layout. Our layout RWA has now suddenly and arbitrarily decided that he cannot open his shop for 10 days. His fault? Staying in a huge apartment complex where there is a Covid case. Who will compensate for his loss? If cases keep coming, will he not be able to open the shop forever?
Exactly.


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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
..
The lockdown has been used by some states to control the virus while others have failed. The fear of migrants spreading the virus is not limited to northern and eastern states. It has brought in loads of cases to Karnataka and Kerala (maybe more than 50% of active cases)...
Different states have had different results because their circumstances are different. Big employment states like MH, TN and DL are going to have less success in containing the virus. We cannot keep comparing them to KL.


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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
..
How can one be expected to pay tax despite not having an income ? Borrow money to pay to government with another impending disaster in banking sector ?
Hey, don't look at me for implementation details. I have been against the lockdown from day 1. All I know is that the cost of forcing anyone to do anything for our safety should be paid for by us directly.


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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
...Talking about states not having enough money, Karnataka has a 10K crore GST backlog from centre. For people wanting more and more one nation, one thing theory, this should be an eye opening. We will flatten development across the country (for the worst). More money to less committed states through skewed population based calculation when actually people migrate out.
This is a discussion that merits its own thread.

Last edited by moralfibre : 15th June 2020 at 12:19. Reason: Avoid putting excessive dots in your post.
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Old 15th June 2020, 12:28   #2449
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by hothatchaway View Post
Is there any set of guidelines available for the common man to follow if there is a suspected case in one's family? For example, fever coughing and associated symptoms could be indicative of many other infections and not just CoVID. So at what stage does one determine that a visit to the doctor is needed?

A doctor's prescription is required to request a test even at a private facility, so who does a suspected patient approach to have himself examined? Will a GP suffice? If not then which specialist should one approach?
.
As you rightly said, fever, runny nose,cough, sore throat, bodyache, headache, loss of smell sensation etc. could be indicative of many other infections including other routine Coronaviruses, however once anyone has these symptoms irrespective of the age, a Covid-19 test becomes imperative in the current scenario. Yes , a local GP is very much qualified to prescribe a Covid-19 test.

Ideally, you can watch out for two days or so, quarantine at home, pop up paracetamol,citrizine, take cough syrup, do some warm salt water gargling three times a day and go for the test only if the symptoms start worsening or fever is unrelenting. Again I don't advise only covid but also our routine friends - Dengue, Malaria, Bacterial infections etc. My advise may differ based on the patient's age and other comorbities. Once tested positive, there is absolutely no need for hospitalisation right away. If you are hemodynamically stable then home it is. Worsening of that dry cough and onset of breathlessness at rest or on doing routine work is when such individuals need to instantly visit a physician/ER and determine if admission is required.

All young fit stable Covid positives can sit back home and enjoy covid tamasha going around and feel proud of being the true warriors. My friend's friend turned out to be a true warrior recently. She tested positive but upon my advice, got quarantined at home and saved that one bed for an actual needy patient in Mumbai. Its 15 days now and she is absolutely doing great.

One can buy a portable pulse oximeter from Amazon and self monitor for Spo2 on that. If its hitting below 94 constantly on room air and even if you are not breathless, do get chekced by a MD physician, not a local GP this time.
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Old 15th June 2020, 15:05   #2450
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
New study on how the lockdown may have delayed the peak of the virus in India. Much more pain being predicted.

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/...136032497.html
Cyborg Sir,

Here is a link from the same livemint that you head cited earlier.

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/...205172025.html

We think Covid is scary? I don’t think we have the slightest clue how bad things can get when people run out of means. That is truly terrifying.

I have heard unverified reports of increased frequency of robberies and such in the hinterlands outside of metros. Usually, I don’t place much faith in such reports. But given how hard it has been for the vast majority of our countrymen for the past 3 months and seeing where we are headed with the general paranoia about the virus, I am starting to feel more than a little concerned about the aforementioned reports.

Last edited by mohansrides : 15th June 2020 at 15:12.
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Old 15th June 2020, 16:04   #2451
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Chennai along with it's neighborhood districts to go under a strict lockdown soon.

https://www.timesnownews.com/chennai...9-to-30/606756

It is similar to the lockdown 1.0 that we had in March.
Some points to note:
1. June 21 and 28(Sundays) will be a complete lockdown with exclusions for medical emergencies only.
2. Banks will function only on June 29 and 30 while ATMs will function all day throughout.
3. Hotels to resume only parcel operations.
4. Groceries, vegetables and fuel* to be made available only from 6AM to 2PM and will be shut on Sundays.
5. People from other states and countries will follow the ongoing procedure.
6. People can't move out of these zones without a e-pass.
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Old 15th June 2020, 16:27   #2452
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

I see no end in sight till December. Even with vaccine for everyone to get it will take close to 10 years.

Only solution is 1. Everyone gets it and mostly everyone recovers (hopefully) or 2. Cure comes that is as simple as popping a pill and recovering in a day or so.
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Old 15th June 2020, 16:35   #2453
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
New study on how the lockdown may have delayed the peak of the virus in India. Much more pain being predicted.

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/...136032497.html
ICMR is a joke by the way but even with their standards, they have refused the report cited by you in the above link and has been termed false by them.

When community transmission has already happened in clusters, ICMR is still in the denial mode for obvious reasons. The more they speak, the more laughable their arguments have become these days !!
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Old 15th June 2020, 16:56   #2454
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Strict lock down back in 4 districts of Tamilnadu from 19th June to 30th June. Chennai and its 3 neighboring districts Chengalpattu, Tiruvallur & Kanchipuram are going under this lock down. People has 3 days to get ready this time to face it.
Personally, feel it to be a better decision looking at the current trend in Chennai and Chengalpattu.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...le31833000.ece
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Old 15th June 2020, 18:05   #2455
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by mohansrides View Post
I am starting to feel more than a little concerned about the aforementioned reports.
I have been hearing and reading about robberies, chain snatching and general lawlessness too. This is the scary part for sure, however, thatís within the scope of law enforcement. Itís the Policeís job to ensure the safety and security of its citizens. If we start making justifications that due to poverty/ tough times these people have started robberies etc, itís the end of civilised society. This cannot be tolerated and should be crushed with an iron hand so others can be deterred from adopting crime.

The situation is sad wherein the poor are in real bad shape and if we believe what we read the government is doing what needs to be done. Effectiveness and scope of reach may be debatable.

Having said that, perhaps all of us in our own small ways can do something meaningful by giving people in our employ (maids, servants, drivers etc) their salaries in spite of not working during the lockdown and till they resume work. If everyone who is blessed with the means does this, we will be doing something meaningful in our own little way other than just typing solutions on forums of what can be or should be done to improve the situation.

Cheers
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Old 15th June 2020, 21:09   #2456
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
I think what mvadg meant was PDF files generated not from a word document but most likely scanned from a print which is stored as image, difficult to copy or edit.

This must be to prevent any edits or misuse of notification. Canít think of anything else.
That you receive a paper document that you have to publish so it has to be scanned and used as an image. I guess this explains the MHA document about OCI that I wanted to quote on another forum... but no cut&paste because it's an image. Nice official signature, though!
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Originally Posted by hothatchaway View Post
Is there any set of guidelines available for the common man to follow if there is a suspected case in one's family?
You have this question. I have this question too. And, after so many weeks I am amazed that neither our respective state governments nor central govt is publishing this stuff loud and clear in every newspaper every day. Even for lockdown regulations we have to rely on press reports, articles we might miss.

Thank goodness we have this forum. You, I, we, should not have to ask What should we do if. It may seem like a small failure of government, but I actually think it is a big one!
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Old 15th June 2020, 22:29   #2457
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by saisree View Post
Strict lock down back in 4 districts of Tamilnadu from 19th June to 30th June. Chennai and its 3 neighboring districts Chengalpattu, Tiruvallur & Kanchipuram are going under this lock down. People has 3 days to get ready this time to face it. Personally, feel it to be a better decision looking at the current trend in Chennai and Chengalpattu. ]
What will happen after June 30th? Extend it for another two weeks as the cases would be around 80 to 100k by then. Then by July 15, they will again see that the lockdown hasnít really helped in stopping the spread. They will be forced to open up again due to economic hardship and public pressure. So the futile cycle would keep repeating worsening the situation of economic activity, livelihoods and individual liberties each time.
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Old 15th June 2020, 22:43   #2458
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by Sebring View Post
Panorama (Mys. Rd.).
Mys. Rd. or the Bannerghatta Rd? I don't know if there is one on mysore rd as well.

I had sold off an apartment here quite some time back but do still get the emails. I am guessing the one in question here is the Purva Panorama at the BG Rd.

Chennai now. Delhi tomorrow. Patience of the people is also being tested with all the games around this pandemic with no clear strategy is sight.
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Old 15th June 2020, 23:00   #2459
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
I agree with the rest of your post, but must disagree with your views on democratising education by bringing it online.
Physical vs Digital infrastructure

Physical schools need investment in land, building, interior facilities, teaching staff, maintenance staff, uniforms, commute/transport options and other big-budget items. While in digital, it is just what is seen on the phone or computer screen. There might be minor differences in the teacher's explanation but students have the advantage of rewinding & hearing till they grasp the concept. The infrastructure is the same for rich or poor. The Android screen or the Windows 10 laptop looks the same anywhere in the world. That is what I meant when I said 'democratization' of academic education.

On part of the Government & educators, it is cheaper to build a digital setup than the physical one. A good power supply, good mobile internet connectivity is easier to build than the physical school, then ensuring the teachers are appointed, turn up for classes, and school is adequately equipped for teaching (in many Govt schools, students of different classes share the same classroom).

The current online education is at 1.0 version. In the coming days, we will have a better & more effective model.

As an example of non-democratization education, consider sports education. Developed countries have a far better chance of doing well in overall sports due to better sports infrastructure.
Quote:
There are 2 reasons why it won't help:

1. It is taken for granted, in our socioeconomic circles, that kids can be provided with a laptop / tablet and fast internet. This is not the case for most people. Even in slightly more expensive schools, there are students whose parents scrounge every penny, and those who get scholarships. It is unlikely that they will have access to laptops and broadband. Yes, Jio and smartphone penetration are a start, but they are a poor substitute.
This is the current situation. It can change in the next 5 years. 125 years back, only rich kids went to school. Other kids anywhere in the world would work in factories or end up as farm helps. It has changed such that any kid now would need 12 years of schooling at a minimum.
Quote:
2. Working class parents are able to both go to work once they send their children to school for the day. Most couples whose jobs are, for example, domestic help + chauffeur, or cook + security guard, rely on school to keep their children occupied and educated while they are out earning. With school from home, assuming a family has internet + device access, a parent has to be around to ensure attendance, attention, and discipline. I have no children, but I am given to believe there is a need for children under 10 to have an adult around at all times for online classes, in any socioeconomic group, just to stave off distraction.
Again it is the current stable state. Depending on the need, there will be a transition to a new settled-down state. Families will adjust .
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Originally Posted by ABHI_1512 View Post
ICMR is a joke by the way but even with their standards, they have refused the report cited by you in the above link and has been termed false by them.
We have a world-class National Institute of Virology that started in 1952 and is quite a mature institution by now. It has field units in all parts of the country.

What I mean is we have a fully equipped institute to do research on virus-like COVID-19, and advice on the managing virus epidemic. Why do we need direct advice from WHO, China, medical journals when we have an expert body to can assimilate that information & suggest a course for our country?

For instance, we need different advice when the cases have hit 3.5 lakh than when it was 500. Why does ICMR appear that they don't have a plan?
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Old 15th June 2020, 23:21   #2460
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Why does ICMR appear that they don't have a plan?
As you said, we have some very capable institutions and they are over the years have done commendable work. NIVís special work in isolating the strains of SARS-COV-2 has been a special achievement. Now NIV is part of ICMR, so it should be expected that they have a plan in place to tackle the virus since they have the expertise.

But the goof ups are happening due to the constant muddling of the bureaucracy and the powers that be. I refuse to believe that the very capable people in ICMR donít have a plan in place to tackle the virus. I have this very strong feeling that the report circulated in the media about the spurt in cases in November was a genuine case study by the ICMR people but which they have been now forced to retract under pressure.

ICMR people are no jokers, they are well articulated and very highly educated people who are doing their jobs. My problem is that they are being used by the system according to their fancies and thus they are appearing as jokes to layman like me !!
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