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View Poll Results: Do you support the lockdown extension?
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Old 16th June 2020, 00:42   #2461
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Physical vs Digital infrastructure


This is the current situation. It can change in the next 5 years. 125 years back, only rich kids went to school. Other kids anywhere in the world would work in factories or end up as farm helps. It has changed such that any kid now would need 12 years of schooling at a minimum.
Sir,

Just one point. Most of what you say is true. Almost every innovation took time to settle into a normal rhythm. But, not every innovation found its footing. I will give you an example.

I am not sure about your age. But, back in the late 90s as the internet was slowly gaining foothold in India and elsewhere, there was a lot of talk about tele-medicine and about how doctors could dispense medical advise without seeing the patient. To be fair, this model worked for while, until it reached its own limits.

Beyond a point, there is no substitute for clinical examination of a patient. This is one of the reasons why so many of our neighbourhood GPs have such a strong hold on the community. Most of them do not hold advanced degrees in medicine. Just an MBBS. But, their vast body of knowledge that comes from clinically examining hundreds of thousands of patients over years is virtually priceless.

I know of a GP in my old neighborhood in Chennai. The guy is pushing 70. But, he is the first point of consultation for many people in my family before we move on to consult specialists. In many cases, no specialists are even needed.

I also know another GP here in Mumbai. He is my GP since I moved to Mumbai. The guy is busier than VVIPs. Inexpensive treatment where he himself dispenses the medication. Works every single time. He is the guy who I am constantly in touch with with regards to Covid and the seniors in my house. He has examined them all and is spot on in his analysis.

But, more than the merits of clinical examination and knowledge and all that, is the simple human connection that comes from close contact. Until my granddad's death at 99, this GP in Mumbai paid a home visit every week. He is kind, compassionate, patient, cheerful and very pragmatic. That is the core reason why he has managed to give himself the opportunities to maximize his patient exposure and gather vast amounts of experience.

Online interactions do not allow for those intangible, but crucial human elements to be transmitted and grasped effectively. So, tele-medicine worked when all an expert had to do was to look at medical test reports and dispense advise. But, 20 years later, GPs and their neighborhood clinics are still the lifeline; not just in India, but even abroad.

In the same way, I think you are right in saying that the online mode can bridge the economic divide in many ways. But, real education relies on lasting impressions left by teachers. That only happens in in-person interactions. Also, children need to come under the influence of authority figures outside of their immediate families. The father as an authority figure is fine to a degree. But, beyond a point, children need other individuals to look up to.

For instance, I can be stern with my kids. But, only up a point, Beyond that I don't have the detachment to discipline them. I need someone else to fill in there. Also, my kids' sphere of aspirations should not be limited to what they see in the lives of me and my wife. They need to see and hear about what other people have experienced and achieved, so that the kids can widen their exposure and figure out what they want for their own lives.

All this comes only when the child is out and about in a physical school with friends and teachers and playgrounds and drama stages. I want my kids to experience the full gamut of emotions as they grow up. Even if such emotions are more along the lines of disappointment, anger, jealousy and resentment. Only when they feel all that will they know how to sort through those emotions.

To sum it up, online education can be a wonderful thing. But, it cannot be the only thing. And it certainly cannot be the primary way we educate our kids. It has to be a supplementation of in-person education in schools.

Incidentally, I grew up going to school in Chennai. But, a few years ago, I watched this little gem of a movie called "Do Dooni Chaar". It is a small budget film; but it is one of Rishi Kapoor's finest work. There is one particular scene when the protagonist is stopped from committing a big mistake due to a chance meeting with one of his former students. A student who has gone far and made big strides in his personal and professional life. That "Duggal Express" scene is pretty much an encapsulation of what successful school education is all about. That scene makes me smile every time I watch it.


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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Again it is the current stable state. Depending on the need, there will be a transition to a new settled-down state. Families will adjust .
Sir.

Seriously, it is backbreaking work to do housework, office work, kitchen work, take care of the seniors in the house, and finally also function as a proxy teacher for kids.

It has been 3 months almost and we have not adjusted at all. It is beyond exhausting. I am not even joking. If this situation continues, I think my kids' education will be hampered by the fact that their parents have become completely negative people because of relentless pressure in all departments of life. This is not how it should be at all. My kids need happy friends, teachers and positive people around them. Not exhausted parents who are on the edge all the time.

Cheers

Last edited by moralfibre : 16th June 2020 at 13:07. Reason: As requested
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Old 16th June 2020, 10:00   #2462
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by Jagann13 View Post
Chennai along with it's neighborhood districts to go under a strict lockdown soon.
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Originally Posted by saisree View Post
Strict lock down back in 4 districts of Tamilnadu from 19th June to 30th June.
Wow, I thought we were past city and district-wide lockdowns at least by now. Apparently not. Didn't the CMs of a few states including TN deny the possibility of a lockdown just last week?!

https://www.newindianexpress.com/sta...i-2155698.html

The need for city-wide lockdowns is debatable and perhaps may even be necessary, but why deny something just to implement it a few days later? How will people trust official news if this is the case?
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Old 16th June 2020, 10:54   #2463
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

https://twitter.com/Begin_Humor/stat...403127808?s=19



This is tweet from a guy who is asking for help because his apartment RWA is demanding a COVID 19 medical certificate for his wife and kid who came to Bengaluru from Patna via a flight.

The city police commissioner seems to appreciate the RWA being strict as he calls it. I can understand a police commissioner appreciating vigilant members of society who help to report crimes but I know for a fact that he won't like the same members of society if they decide to become vigilantes.

Some how it seems that COVID-19 is stretching the limits of what is normally un-acceptable. Already a few people have arrived back to our apartment complex. I don't see our RWA demanding this sort of test yet.

But I am afraid that these tinpot dictators are being given more self appointed powers day by day and these will spread. To see a Commissioner of police being all nonchalant about this actually scares me.
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India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020-screenshot_20200616104125.png  

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Old 16th June 2020, 11:29   #2464
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by mohansrides View Post
But, 20 years later, GPs and their neighborhood clinics are still the lifeline; not just in India, but even abroad.
Excellent write up highlighting the importance of GP in an otherwise specialist culture and you know what, Mumbai is known for its GP practice. I totally agree with you on the clinical examination part. A good doctor is known by his clinical acumen. Telemedicine is only as good as an adjunct and can never replace a doctor-patient face to face interaction and relationship.

By the way, let's wait until all this stupid drama gets over. Things should bounce back. High court of Bombay had categorically stated that a Doctor cannot give online/whatsapp advice or consultation without seeing the patient in person.

Did I just read from another member that RWAs in Bangalore have taken it to a next level and the commissioner is all supportive of it too. Oh, he goes on to say - "... Residents have kept Bangalore unlike other cities". Really ?? Infact, other cities have common sense still prevailing unlike Bangalore. I hope this stupidity doesn't spread to Mumbai. We are the worst hit city with 82000 cases and not a single incidence of Doctors or nurses being evicted from apartment societies in Mumbai.

Last edited by vivek95 : 16th June 2020 at 11:40.
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Old 16th June 2020, 11:40   #2465
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by am1m View Post
Wow, I thought we were past city and district-wide lockdowns at least by now. Apparently not. Didn't the CMs of a few states including TN deny the possibility of a lockdown just last week?!

The need for city-wide lockdowns is debatable and perhaps may even be necessary, but why deny something just to implement it a few days later? How will people trust official news if this is the case?
The number of cases are increasing by the day. Going by the trend, we are still in the beginning of this, I think .

When the pressure gets to them to control the cases, off we go into a lockdown.

A few days later when the pressure again gets to them from the other side, relax the lockdown.

The virus does not seem to care two hoots on what we are trying and carrying on in its own path.

This pandemic is out of control now. We just need to take precautions and carry on with our routine. Just wait for the virus to run its course. When? Anybody's guess!.
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Old 16th June 2020, 11:45   #2466
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by vivek95 View Post
...
Did I just read from another member that RWAs in Bangalore have taken it to a next level and the commissioner is all supportive of it too.
Agree with you on GPs and telemedicine.
RWAs love playing dictator and what better than to offload responsibility to someone else. I bet the commissioner will disclaim all liability as is commonplace with our government officials when there is a serious issue because of this. I expect the courts also will chip in and support the government officials, but wash their hands off when push comes to shove.
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Old 16th June 2020, 12:19   #2467
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

I have a big problem with this medical certificate requirement for Covid.

For example - I need to go and visit my family and for that I need to get a Covid certificate. I go for my test which comes out negative and then I get the certificate. What if I get infected in the process of getting the certificate or while travelling to my family. The whole purpose of the certificate gets defeated. Why to have such a requirement which is essentially of no use?

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 16th June 2020, 12:31   #2468
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by Amit_breakfree View Post
I have a big problem with this medical certificate requirement for Covid.

For example - I need to go and visit my family and for that I need to get a Covid certificate. I go for my test which comes out negative and then I get the certificate. What if I get infected in the process of getting the certificate or while travelling to my family. The whole purpose of the certificate gets defeated. Why to have such a requirement which is essentially of no use?

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Yes this Covid19 negative test report/certificate is totally stupid.

1) Why should I get test for the same if I do not have any symptoms or if I am unlikely to have come in contact with anyone who has had it?
2) Any guarantee that I won't contract it when getting the test done? Or getting Covid19 infected after I get the certificate?
3) How easy it is to have such a fake report made? Pretty easy I believe.
4) What will those who are asking for it do with it? I mean how is it useful to them? I don't see any use of the certificate except in only the case of a permanent domestic help - If a resident decides to have a stay at home maid at home (and not go out EOD) then it makes sens to get the certificate for them before they join. Else this is a stupid waste of money and efforts.

Last edited by sunilch : 16th June 2020 at 12:32.
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Old 16th June 2020, 13:23   #2469
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by vivek95 View Post
I think I am going to take a shot at this one soon.
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Originally Posted by samaspire View Post
Hey Vivek, since you are a doctor, you are exempted from testing and quarantine if coming to Karnataka. Don't know about the family though.

Attachment 2014979
I have posted an update on this one here in Mumbai/Pune to Bangalore thread - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/route...ml#post4824795 (Bangalore - Pune - Mumbai : Route updates & Eateries)

Mumbai police portal seems to be very quick in responding to e-pass requests. Mine was like 2 hours from application to revert, however rejected.
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Old 17th June 2020, 07:51   #2470
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

That stupid covid certificate is as worthless as the paper it is printed on. All it says us, the sample tested is covid -ve. The person could have got infected the very next second when leaving the facility!! If any certificate can be trusted, it should be a Covid antibody test. If one has a +ve Covid antibody, it means he/she has fought off the infection and now has enough antibodies to be Covid free. We should make this test mandatory and provide some sort of a Covid passport for say 6 months.
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Old 17th June 2020, 10:29   #2471
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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That stupid covid certificate is as worthless as the paper it is printed on. All it says us, the sample tested is covid -ve. The person could have got infected the very next second when leaving the facility!! If any certificate can be trusted, it should be a Covid antibody test. If one has a +ve Covid antibody, it means he/she has fought off the infection and now has enough antibodies to be Covid free. We should make this test mandatory and provide some sort of a Covid passport for say 6 months.
Saw a video of a guy travelling from Dubai (I think) on his way to Cochin. He was in quarantine for a week in Delhi. Nobody called him to check on his health nor visited him. During his check out from the hotel, they issue him with a certificate stating that he was in quarantine and Dr XXXX visited and confirmed that he is covid -ve. The fact is the dude hasn't even seen that doctor.
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Old 17th June 2020, 10:49   #2472
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

I posted this on the Mumbai-Pune-Bangalore thread but posting here too.

My Uncle booked his car with a transporter around 2 weeks back to move it from Pune to Thiruvananthapuram. But the car is still with the transporter in Pune and they are blaming it on KA not allowing entry to the transport vehicle from MH.

Does any of you know of any restriction on goods movement from Pune through Karnataka? I've not come across any such restriction in the media but not sure if there are specific restrictions being applied locally.
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Old 17th June 2020, 10:56   #2473
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

I have decided not to post any more on COVID threads. One of my relatives in his forties in Chennai developed fever and breathlessness suddenly. His condition deteriorated and is admitted to hospital now. His wife also is covid positive. This can happen to any of us.

We are ill informed and qualified to comment on the seriousness or lack of it or the mortality of the virus. False bravado and over confidence can lead to very tragic results. The only thing we can do is stay safe.
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Old 17th June 2020, 13:25   #2474
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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I have decided not to post any more on COVID threads. One of my relatives in his forties in Chennai developed fever and breathlessness suddenly. His condition deteriorated and is admitted to hospital now. His wife also is covid positive. This can happen to any of us.

We are ill informed and qualified to comment on the seriousness or lack of it or the mortality of the virus. False bravado and over confidence can lead to very tragic results. The only thing we can do is stay safe.
Sir,

I hope your relatives recover well. I donít want anyone to get sick.

But with all due respect, this debate is not just about people getting sick. It is about forcing others to give up their livelihoods because a small portion of people are getting sick and an even smaller portion are succumbing to the illness.

I personally know 9 people who became unemployed and are struggling to run their families. As you said, this could happen to any of us.

The news is full of people paying with their lives for our relative safety. We just choose to turn a blind eye. While almost every Covid death or even infection is counted and reported, all the suffering and casualties due to the lockdown are not.

Best Wishes to your relative. We have 4 Covid cases in my building and 8 in our housing society. All of them have either recovered, or are well on the way to recovery.
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Old 17th June 2020, 15:31   #2475
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Default Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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The only thing we can do is stay safe.
I agree, we've got to be safe.

However, to be safe we also need to ensure we understand the risks and learn how to manage them well.

For instance, in this case, it might help everyone (your relatives, yourself, and all readers) to possibly learn on the specifics of how the relatives may have contracted the virus (the risk part).

Having known and understood this risk, we will all be doing our best to manage it in ways suitable and subjective to our living situations.

For many of us, the WFH continues the way it did and we are fairly well insulated from the virus till we continue practicing necessary precautions in risk management (mask; hand wash; hand sanitization; social distance; etc). For others that have to travel to work and other places, the need for understanding the risks and managing them is much higher.

We will all benefit from more details. Lack of conversations on the topic will never be a "safe practice".

Hope the relatives recover fast and get well soon.
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