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View Poll Results: Do you support the lockdown extension?
Yes 299 47.46%
No 244 38.73%
I'm unsure 87 13.81%
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Old 13th April 2020, 23:58   #766
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Situation is getting scarier.
Total 10500 cases. More than 1300 cases in last 24 hours. 358 deaths. It took hardly one week to double from 5000 cases to 10000.
Delhi on its own reported 350 cases in last 24 hours. We are now at 10th position in the newly reported cases. This is the threat potential of this virus.
We are slowly entering league of European countries. With partial lifting of lock down only God knows what is going to happen.

Last edited by poloman : 14th April 2020 at 00:02.
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Old 14th April 2020, 00:06   #767
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

It's really perplexing to see these numbers.
If we have 1300 new cases today, then these must be people who got infected after lock down had come into effect.

So what were these people doing in this lock down?
Or all are family members of existing cases? I doubt that..

Unfortunately, there is no source on info anymore to get these kind of next level details, now that daily numbers are in triple and four digits.
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Old 14th April 2020, 00:19   #768
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

I said that I will not write in this thread again. But, I saw these two links today and could not stay quiet.

  1. https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/coro...=home-bigstory

  2. https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/coro...ome-topstories

We all collectively inflicted this pain on these people. Sure, they were poor to start with. But, many of them were earning their daily bread and living with some semblance of dignity. Now, this is what life is like for them.

So, say what you want about the number of lives supposedly being saved by the lockdown; but for heaven's sake, don't argue as if you know for sure that a lockdown is for EVERYONE's good. The lockdown may be for your good, and even for my good. But, it is far from good for these people.

Really, shame on us. There really is no other term that applies here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
But, by the way: No, Trump was not elected by a large majority. In fact he lost the people's vote. He became president by virtue of how the system works, not by any, let alone a large, majority of the people.
Since I got back into the pool, I thought I will take you up on this topic.

First, I apologize for my choice of words. You are right. He didn't get an absolute majority. But, that should not matter. The US system uses the electoral college as a way to assign weightage to candidates' numbers in each state because that is what their constitution feels is more appropriate for their society. So, President Trump won office through their constitutionally appointed methods; and it is not for you and me to argue whether he is legit or not. By the way, if you are up to it, it may be interesting to run a check on all the elections in the US and tell us how many presidents won by electoral college and which parties they belonged to. If the liberals had won through electoral college, I suspect that you would be preaching the upsides of the system right now.

Last edited by vb-san : 14th April 2020 at 09:13. Reason: A line removed to avoid discussion getting personal
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Old 14th April 2020, 00:28   #769
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Default Re: Karnataka lockdown update!

Karnataka government plan to restricted lifting of shutdown is puzzling. The buses won't ply, but the offices can open? How will the workers reach the offices? Not everyone has private vehicles. Not everyone can afford cabs and autos, especially their increased rates at this time.

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Originally Posted by Warwithwheels View Post
Can someone please translate this? Does it have something to do with the above announcement?
No, this notice is practically ordering companies not to terminate or reduce salaries of any employees. This is an order that is not supported by law.

Today I spoke to a HR guy in a manufacturing firm, who took legal opinion from their labor lawyers on this notification. It is just an advisory, couched in tough language. Karnataka government has the habit of making rules that won't stand in court when challenged. Their ruling to collect LTT after just 30 days is a good example. It was challenged by BHPian SILVERWOOD, and the government lost case in the court.
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Old 14th April 2020, 00:39   #770
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Default Re: Karnataka lockdown update!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMG Power View Post
Aramco has invested 20%. While this is 20% of the larger company moves are afoot to spin this off into another subsidiary. This would be a veiled way of increasing the shareholding.
That deal is on indefinite hold. GoI has put in barriers for various reasons, and at this point RIL is in no position to circumvent them by managing the environment. GoI has all day to play this game of who blinks first, and frankly has bigger things to worry about currently. Our friend on Altamount Road is hurrying things as fast as he can, and looking for succour wherever available. Thus you will notice the fresh debt raise of about $3 bn as one of many steps being taken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohansrides View Post
If the liberals had won through electoral college, I suspect that you would be preaching the upsides of the system right now.
Look Mohan, we get it. This is a really sh*t time, and it's going to get far worse. Either way, people die, and most of them poor. As far as employment and responsibilities go, believe it or not, some of us actually have it worse off than you do. But this is not a competition. The worthies who insisted a blanket lockdown is best and we should bang pots and scream at the virus are long gone. Most people left talking on these threads are either providing useful information or a nuanced viewpoint, or are here to seek both of those. By targeting other members personally and making it seem like we are all cold heartless people, you do yourself and this forum a disservice.

This is heartbreaking - https://www.ndtv.com/opinion/what-mi...-to-us-2209556 :(

Last edited by v1p3r : 14th April 2020 at 00:40.
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Old 14th April 2020, 02:51   #771
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohansrides View Post
Also, if the lockdown as a measure is so effective, why hasn't NY initiated it? Even if we argue that federal powers are weaker in the US, the state does have the power to initiate at least some version of a lockdown. Why have they not done so?
I have read your posts and opinion stating that USA hasn't shut down the country but let me tell you that, it is far from truth. Yes, USA has not implemented lock down like India did but, US President doesn't have that power to do so. It is under State Governor's power. And, most states have declared State Emergency - meaning only Essential Businesses/Services are allowed to be open. That includes Hospitals, Grocery Stores, Gas Stations, Restaurants (only for Carry out and Delivery), Auto mobile repair shops etc. Having said that, all other businesses are closed. My home state, VA has implemented orders for all non essential businesses to be closed until June 10th and so many other states also have done it. Even gathering of more than 10 people is not allowed anymore at any place. Schools have been closed for the current school year that ends in Mid June (schools have been closed since March 11th).

Even NYC also, only essential businesses are open and all recreational/non essential business have been closed since last two weeks.

Also, I am not saying this on here-say, but stating facts as I see it here. All my business have been, either closed or operating with limited capacity as allowed by LAW since last 3 weeks here in Virginia and are going to be like that until June 10th - unless anything changes before that.

So even though, USA hasn't declared lock down like India, it is pretty much operating like that only with most states declaring Stay Home orders and no essentials closed.

Also, you mentioning China, I would not go by their numbers at all. All major countries are having doubts about China's reported numbers, so please do not go by what they are reporting.

Now on a larger point of Shut down helps or not - there are two theories. Some countries like Sweden is keeping their economy open and allowing public to gain immunity - as part of that they may loose 5% of infected population but that number will be small for them. Countries like India - 5% of infected population death rate will be a very huge number by itself. So what Sweden did is not applicable to all countries.

Last edited by Nitrous Power : 14th April 2020 at 02:55.
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Old 14th April 2020, 04:00   #772
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohansrides View Post
By the way, if you are up to it, it may be interesting to run a check on all the elections in the US and tell us how many presidents won by electoral college and which parties they belonged to.
The number five comes to mind, might have read it somewhere: not good a good memory for history.
Quote:
If the liberals had won through electoral college, I suspect that you would be preaching the upsides of the system right now.
Not at all. I'm the one with common sense. Remember?

Last edited by benbsb29 : 14th April 2020 at 05:48. Reason: Fixed broken quote tag.
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Old 14th April 2020, 09:11   #773
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohansrides View Post
Also, if the lockdown as a measure is so effective, why hasn't NY initiated it? Even if we argue that federal powers are weaker in the US, the state does have the power to initiate at least some version of a lockdown. Why have they not done so?
I think we are reading too much into the official definition of lock-down. US has claimed the no.1 spot and so probably is not the ideal country to compare on best practices in dealing with the situation. And even though not on official lock-down, my cousin living in outskirts of NYC mentioned that he and his family hardly step out of the house, for the past one month+. Same is the case with another cousin who is living in the Bay Area. With or without lock-down, I donít see much difference.

----

Australia has effectively worked out the social distancing approach and hefty fines for those who donít comply. Here in Singapore, we are on circuit-breaker mode, not officially a lock-down. This means that all offices, education institutions are closed and have switched to Work-from-home and online learning. My daughter is on Microsoft Teams from yesterday after her school reopened after the Easter break. Public amenities are also closed for usage (this include pool, gym facilities in private condominiums as well). And strict fines await those who doesn't comply.

A few key differences I see from the official lock-down in India v/s Circuit breaker here are as follows:
  • Restaurants, food courts and coffee shops are open, but only for takeaways and deliveries.
  • Supermarkets, grocery stores and wet markets are open as a part of essential services. Wearing a mask is mandatory when visiting a store.
  • Clinics, salons, Bank ATMs are also open as a part of essential services.
  • Nature parks are open for public to go for a run or walk. Again, volunteers are on the watch to ensure safe distancing measures.
  • Public transport is functioning Ė people need to get to supermarkets or buy food. Unlike India, majority here rely on local food courts (hawker centers) for food. But even buses have stickers on the seats to maintain distance.
Full lock-down or partial lock-down, I believe effective implementation of safe distancing play a big role in containing the spread. Even with all these measures, the nos. are on the rise here, especially with specific clusters. Kerala reported the curve getting flat but, on the downside, people were on the streets yesterday for Vishu shopping. I hope complacency doesnít kick in for states that are effectively managing the spread.

Stickers in buses for safe-distance
India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020-3b7d07c1839845c1ad3f21cdb28e9d93.jpg

One of the neighbourhood nature park
India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020-img_0398.jpg
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Old 14th April 2020, 09:18   #774
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohansrides View Post
Really, shame on us. There really is no other term that applies here.
Don't think there is a need to use such strong words in a public forum. As someone mentioned earlier, all of us are capitalists when it suits us and socialists otherwise.

For some, life comes first, for others, money comes first. Just because you are of one view doesn't mean others with different views can be berated. Please know that you cannot replace a life lost due to the virus spread with how much ever money is given as compensation later.

Last edited by vb-san : 14th April 2020 at 09:31. Reason: Avoid personal comments please. Thank you!
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Old 14th April 2020, 09:30   #775
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by racer_ash View Post
Don't think there is a need to use such strong words in a public forum. As someone mentioned earlier, all of us are capitalists when it suits us and socialists otherwise.

For some, life comes first, for others, money comes first. Just because you are of one view doesn't mean others with different views can be berated. Please know that you cannot replace a life lost due to the virus spread with how much ever money is given as compensation later.
It was never a “life vs. money” argument at any point. It is, and always has been, “life vs. life” debate for the lockdown. Many, including me have made this point earlier in this thread.

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Last edited by vb-san : 14th April 2020 at 09:32. Reason: Quoted post edited, removing related response. Thanks
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Old 14th April 2020, 09:38   #776
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

All, I'm taking this discussion to more mundane and more practical here and now matters. Sadly this sacrifice by the people of 3 and now 5 weeks has not been used by several big states even to ramp up testing. Outside of Maharashtra, Kerala, Delhi and Rajasthan the other states are simply not doing adequate testing either in absolute numbers or as a ratio to every 100,000 of population. As an example, UP at ~11,000 tests on a population base of 20 crores is too sad to even cry over. Same with MP, AP, WB, JH etc. I think some Chief Ministers have figured that the way to demonstrate the best statistics is to test as little as possible. The less you test, the less cases you will discover, the less CV19 deaths you can officially report. You cant fail the exam you don't sit for.*

They are following the maxim "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

I haven't quoted statistics here as all of us are familiar with the websites where data is available.

*I don't buy the argument that they are waiting for test kits to arrive from China. Its over 33 days since the sleepy WHO even announced it as a pandemic. Is it the sclerotic Govt purchase process?
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Old 14th April 2020, 10:03   #777
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
Is it the sclerotic Govt purchase process?[/i]
Absolutely. Who is going to answer the enquiries at later date. It’s a fact that middleman, factories producing medical equipment are keeping large margins but who will authorize a higher price purchase? I am sure, most Babus can go as far as last Purchase rates or at best give an opportunity to match last order rates to competing firms which no one in this situation will accept.

Here’s what Canada did

The plan was born out of urgency. With the global market for medical supplies overwhelmed by chaos and acts of piracy, Canada needed to take some of the risk out of securing everything from badly needed medical masks to gowns to gloves.

Federal bureaucrats and political staff handling procurement of medical supplies were frustrated by deliveries showing up late. Unreliable and profiteering brokers were driving prices through the roof. Rival countries were buying shipments out from under each other.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...hina-1.5530259

And here’s what our bureaucrats have to say

The rapid testing kits, which were supposed to be here on April 5, and then April 10, will now be here by April 15, the Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR) said on Monday.

We cannot comment on whether our Chinese consignment of rapid testing kits got diverted to the US or somewhere else because we neither maintain commercial data nor are we manufacturers who would know where our supplies are going

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...V3ouPaDcJ.html

Last edited by Turbanator : 14th April 2020 at 10:05.
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Old 14th April 2020, 10:14   #778
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Lockdown extended till May 3rd, with very strict enforcing till April 20th. After April 20th lockdown might be relaxed in zero-corona zones.

Last edited by msdivy : 14th April 2020 at 10:17.
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Old 14th April 2020, 10:24   #779
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Default Re: India on full lockdown till 14th April, 2020. Edit: Now extended till 3rd May 2020

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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Lockdown extended till May 3rd, with very strict enforcing till April 20th. After April 20th lockdown might be relaxed in zero-corona zones.
Now it has become a serious matter. People expected to hear a lease of existence and have been hit with a small sledgehammer. Other than moving the needle to a later time, not sure what the additional 3 weeks will help esp week 4 of stricter norms.

We have already heard of clashes up north and people at the lower strata are becoming more and more agitated with lack of earning. This is bound to hit them hard and not just them, but a lot of people.

Somehow i feel that citizens are now being treated as school children with a carrot and a stick (the carrot appears on 20th if we behave and if we dont, the stick is back)

Does anybody think that we can flatten the curve by 3rd May ? Personally, i dont think so although Kerala seems to have turned the tide. Only time will tell

Last edited by subraiyr : 14th April 2020 at 10:28. Reason: Addition of 1 more sentence
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Old 14th April 2020, 10:48   #780
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Highlights of PM's speech:

Quote:
Prime Minister Narendra Modi today extended the lockdown till May 3 and said any decision on easing restrictions in parts of the country would be taken after April 20, to keep in mind the difficulties of the poor.
"After taking into account all suggestions, we have decided to extend the lockdown till May 3," PM Modi said in his 25-minute address.

"Till April 20, each district, each state will be monitored closely to see whether the lockdown is being followed. Then we can decide on relaxing the restrictions," said the Prime Minister.

Some essential activities would be allowed in areas which showed improvement after April 20, he added.

The total number of coronavirus cases in India has crossed the 10,000, with 339 deaths, according to the latest data from the Union Health Ministry.

India was in much better shape than many major countries in the fight against coronavirus, said the Prime Minister. "If the country had not taken a holistic, integrated approach and had not acted fast, then it is frightening to think what the situation would have been today," he said.

Asserting the need for a strict lockdown to ensure that COVID-19 did not spread to a single new area, the PM said citizens had persevered and confronted every difficulty to ensure that India was ahead in the fight against the virus. "The power of 'We The People Of India' has been seen in the country during the lockdown," he said.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/lock...home-topscroll
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