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View Poll Results: Do you support the lockdown extension?
Yes 299 47.46%
No 244 38.73%
I'm unsure 87 13.81%
Voters: 630. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 18th April 2020, 08:34   #931
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by nagr22 View Post
In my opinion, empathetic thoughts alone cannot solve a problem. Empathy should be followed by an objective analysis to get to the root cause and then fix the problem.
Went through your public profile. You are a young highly qualified person. Certainly intelligent. May I suggest you add some work on the ground to your experience pool by say arranging and distributing food to the poor in Bangalore. That would be a useful starting point for you to understand ground realities and challenges which I can empathize you may not have been exposed to. If you were in Delhi-NCR I would have invited you to join my feeding project - meet these people, talk to them, understand their situation, understand their aspirations and then decide for yourself. If you are willing to step out and work with your hands in the slum areas I'll point you to feeding programmes running in Bangalore.
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Old 18th April 2020, 09:06   #932
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Sure. But what about food? These are mostly people who don't eat when they don't work
The states and local administration is supposed to take care of them. But unfortunately, most of the states have fallen short, by a long shot. This should be an eye opener in many ways to the politicians and local bodies.

https://www.bloombergquint.com/coron...grant-workers#

Kerala now has more than 18000 such shelters taking care of more than 385000 labourers (which is now higher than what was reported on 9-Apr, above). A couple of my contractor friends in Kerala are ensuring that the people working for them continue to have food and shelter although there is no work right now.

If something is not done, we might soon see some riots and other ugly things.

Last edited by pjbiju : 18th April 2020 at 09:08.
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Old 18th April 2020, 09:14   #933
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I was speaking to the head of the CSR foundation of a leading company:

1: Most migrant workers in Bangalore are still here.
2: A lot of efforts has gone to ensuring their welfare.
3: The biggest problem that folks like Akshaya Patra face is not funding, it is lack of volunteers and the logistics for getting them to contest packing etc.
4: Latest strategy has been to distribute food /grains to the Corporation Ward offices. Trained workers complete the packaging and over see distribution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
And do you mean the brilliant Bangalore police who went around whacking people with lathis, and threatened to seize cars if you went out to buy groceries, but sent 50 policemen to escort HDG, HDK, family, 60 guests, and innumerable support staff for a wedding?!

.
The Police have been toned down after Bhaskar Rao gave strict instruction on this.

As for that wedding, sheer arrogance and the police should be accountable for allowing this to happen

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 18th April 2020 at 15:25. Reason: Fixed typo.
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Old 18th April 2020, 09:28   #934
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

With the population density being what it is in India, fully support the lock-down, but would have thought CRPF or some other reserve force is mobilized to ensure adherence. What is also important is the sense that people should bring, in being selfish about their well being. If everyone does that, it's an automatic lock-down.

Interestingly, where I stay there is a 'Shelter-in-place', not a lock-down and one can step out for walks/runs etc while being sensible in maintaining social distance. Trails at parks are made one way to avoid contact with returning hikers. Some public works are continuing with restrictions to improve infrastructure. Lane marking are being repainted, construction sites are open etc...

I believe, keep a person busy and he will be compliant. If possible this time should be used to get cities ship-shape in so many areas. I wish...
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Old 18th April 2020, 09:47   #935
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

With this lock-down set to continue, it's just a matter of time a 'breaking point' is reached. Breaking Point may be sooner for small and medium businesses and those dependent on them and little later for the bigger fish. That said incomes will just vanish and it would be best for all of us to "tighten belts", "pull up socks" and do whatever to keep the expenses only for the bare necessities and avoid retail therapy. Don't put money in long term lock and don't play in stocks. The aftermath of this Wuhan fiasco is going to be shocking and 'psyche-altering' experience for everyone: right from the richest to the poorest. I think the poorest would be a lot better placed to handle it, leaving most of us clutching straws in the blowing wind. And if this virus came out of a lab, whether released knowingly or unknowingly, I think the Chinese have unleashed more than what they can possibly digest: throwing markets around the world in quandary and pushing world into one of the darkest days that we may be able to witness in our life time. More than the disease the economic tsunami is just going to blow us all away.
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Old 18th April 2020, 09:53   #936
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

This is more or less the situation in Kerala and many places the locals have reached a boiling point. There is always two sides to the coin is what I always said.
In this video Panchayath officials were distributing high quality rice, and the migrant workers can be seen rejecting the rice and dumping it back in the jeep. There have been many skirmishes about the food supplied. The migrant workers are used to non veg food and are not happy with traditional Kerala veg food or the typical dal rice. Huge amount of food was wasted in community kitchens due to this.

Empathy is fine but not in talks. How many of us have allowed our maids to stay at our homes? We have around 21 staff in our apartment. We the committee members decided, the staff can stay in our premises if they wish, one month ration was provided. All were paid extra bonus and they are all happy.

Last edited by vb-san : 18th April 2020 at 11:25. Reason: Removing the URL shared - the website is not always a credible source
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Old 18th April 2020, 10:42   #937
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

I have a feeling this lockdown will get more and more diluted from next week both officially and unofficially. As more activities are permitted, the police would get used to people moving around doing their work, If 20 vehicles pass by without an issue then another 5 might sneak by too. The police would get tired and the people will get more cheeky and rebellious. The police will get tired of enforcing the lockdown too as they have other things to do like solving crime and extorting money. It would become like a drive against wrong side driving- occasional stringency in some area, catch a few people and then business as usual. I am not sure what was the best time to impose this lockdown. We closed everything in an unplanned manner when cases were at 500 and now we will open some activities at 15k cases. A lot of businesses lost so much due to a lack of notice from fruits rotting in markets to goods stuck in trucks across the country. In addition, millions of people got stuck away from their homes. Now we are coming to the point where we should have been at the start of the lockdown: allow as many activities as possible with precautions. I predict we will go back to business as usual as people get over their fears. After all it is illegal to drive on the wrong side and to not wear a helmet but millions do it and the police are mere spectators. The same will start happening here unless we get to an epidemic situation when another strict lockdown may have to be enforced. In the grocery store in our building, the owner and the employees were all wearing masks 3 weeks ago. Now for the past 2 weeks no one is bothered and people are crowding inside. Plenty of people hang out in the evenings in the gardens despite an occasional patrol by police vehicles. This is human nature. People cant stay locked in for an extended period and slowly start losing their fear. Only when people see someone in their family, friends or neighbourhood get sick or die then only they will start taking it seriously.

Last edited by Lobogris : 18th April 2020 at 10:50.
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Old 18th April 2020, 10:59   #938
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Imagine going to space and being there for 200 days, and returning back to see that the entire world is in a lockdown.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ource=inshorts


Also don't really agree with this decision by the UP govt to send 50 buses to Rajasthan.
https://zeenews.india.com/india/coro...ource=inshorts

Last edited by turbo : 18th April 2020 at 11:04.
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Old 18th April 2020, 11:14   #939
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
I have a feeling this lockdown will get more and more diluted from next week both officially and unofficially.
Agree with you. In Bangalore, govt has allowed IT, BT and some manufacturers to start work with 50% employees. That's about 2 lakh people may be. Even PWD and metro works is going to start probably. This means lot of support system will also need to start working. Police also said that no need to have essential services passes from this week starting 20th.
I see many people or farmers complained that produce is wasted as there are no buyers. Actually I see that there is no shortage of essential vegetables and groceries. May be produce is not picked up due to lack of demand.

Last edited by _chikku : 18th April 2020 at 11:17.
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Old 18th April 2020, 11:15   #940
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
In the grocery store in our building, the owner and the employees were all wearing masks 3 weeks ago. Now for the past 2 weeks no one is bothered and people are crowding inside.

It's been the opposite where I stay. The grocery store people have been wearing masks from the beginning, but customers were crowding the store at the beginning. Now all customers stand a little away from each other. All the vegetable & fruit sellers have been moved to big one enclosed location. They are inside & the customers are outside & they give the stuff through the fence in the enclosure. Several buildings have stopped allowing anyone other than residents inside.
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Old 18th April 2020, 12:04   #941
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by nagr22 View Post
...
In my opinion, empathetic thoughts alone cannot solve a problem. Empathy should be followed by an objective analysis to get to the root cause and then fix the problem.
.
It is a very human thing, wanting to be near your loved ones in difficult and desperate times.

Plenty of 'migrant workers' of all economic classes did just that when lockdown started, with scant regard for potentially being a virus carrier themselves. They're now commenting on how the poorest ones should be handled for 'greater good', while they sit at home watching over their loved ones thinking 'thank god I got home before it got difficult to travel'.

Asking to empathize with that sentiment demands no action or material consideration. Whether they get to go home now or not may be an objective decision, acknowledging that they're acting like most of us would if put in that situation, is not.

And I notice you didn't answer the actual question I posed: how would you like to be locked up in your workplace indefinitely 'for the greater good', with little to no supplies, away from home? Would you feel like going home, or would you sit there objectively analyzing the situation? How long, and until what level of desperation, before objectivity goes out the window?

My question was how would you feel, not how would you act.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 18th April 2020 at 12:14. Reason: Typos
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Old 18th April 2020, 13:23   #942
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
The Police have been toned down after Bhaskar Rao gave strict instruction on this.
I don't mean to belabour a point, but Bhaskar Rao himself gives opposing instructions on Twitter on the same day. On one hand he says we will seize cars - his own words - and on the other hand retweets people who say the police were polite when they were driving. Then he'll say 'stay at home' and praise seniors who have taken it upon themselves to go around 'policing the streets'. Staggering.

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Old 18th April 2020, 14:47   #943
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
This is more or less the situation in Kerala and many places the locals have reached a boiling point. There is always two sides to the coin is what I always said.
In this video Panchayath officials were distributing high quality rice, and the migrant workers can be seen rejecting the rice and dumping it back in the jeep. There have been many skirmishes about the food supplied. The migrant workers are used to non veg food and are not happy with traditional Kerala veg food or the typical dal rice. Huge amount of food was wasted in community kitchens due to this.
The video you referred to, is from a site which is a propaganda page posing as a news page. The news reader in the video claims they asked for biriyani, mutton, fish molee and so on! Such hate propaganda has been going on against the migrant labourers for quite some time now. There is even a communal propaganda going on against them, with such tall claims which I cant repeat here. So kindly stop spreading unverified information. The video has also been posted on YouTube and the comments section is filled with vile filth. Covid may have a cure, the hate virus wont.

Last edited by GeneralJazz : 18th April 2020 at 14:49.
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Old 18th April 2020, 15:52   #944
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Voted for Option 1 - support the current strategy of maintaining a lockdown. However, there is a nuance here - I think the government is taking a material risk by starting to relax the lockdown from April 20. And I would strongly recommend extending the lockdown nationally till May 15 at the very least.

Why? The data shows that testing levels are grossly inadequate in certain parts of the country. Even in places like Bombay where the administration has been doing a good job (under the circumstances), every day, we find new clusters, and cases that can’t be linked to previous clusters. Hence, the need to maintain the lockdown for a longer period, and to massively step up testing to ensure that undetected clusters are found, and transmission rates collapse. That has not yet happened - and hence we need more than just 15 days more.

At least in my nook of the world, we have settled down in a lockdown equilibrium. Our society stopped entry for all outsiders (including maids, drivers, personal trainers, tuition teachers) about a week before the lock down was announced. Post the lockdowns, we have volunteer groups in the society collating orders for essentials from different vendors, to reduce the number of folks entering the society, and then arranging for goods to be distributed within the society. Most of our security and cleaning staff are on leave, with only a skeleton staff staying in our club house - so the families living on each floor have taken responsibility for maintaining cleanliness for each floor and one flight of stairs, net result, our building is probably cleaner than it has ever been. We are off course paying all our society employees, encouraging residents to pay their staff, and some groups of residents are raising funds for the poor living nearby. The society also came out and recommended use of masks before Modi’s speech. Do we have 100% compliance - no. There are some residents who still prefer to source their own food. The society does not want folks to go for walks or runs in the compound - there are some who disobey that request, but most maintain social distancing even while they are downstairs. When I look at the streets outside, and at a chawl that is just in front of our building, I find most people trying to cooperate as well. In short, the lockdown has shown that even we Indians can voluntarily cooperate when the chips are down.

Of course, I am lucky to be in a sector where work from home is feasible. We moved our office to work from home despite being in an “essential sector” - about 7% of our employees still attend work keeping the lights on to enable others to work from home. For those employees, we have worked with our vendors to ensure that the outsourced staff sanitise every nook every few hours, and we have made arrangements for transport for the outsourced staff as well. Of course, every day of the lock down imposes a huge cost on our clients, and on the SMEs and daily wage labor. But that is where the government needs to step in.

Fortunately for us, we have maintained our fiscal deficits at materially below long term averages for India over the past few years. And despite the current RBI governor having relaxed monetary policy a bit, the “too tight” policy followed by Rajan and Patel has given India the monetary room to ease, and the foreign exchange reserves to avoid an external sector meltdown. So it’s time to print and spend, on supporting the poor through Direct Benefit Transfers, perhaps even launching a Minimum Basic Income scheme unlinked to ration cards or work. The current steps in this direction amounting to 1% of GDP are baby steps, the government should probably plan on a fiscal expansion of 5-6% of GDP at the very least. The only caveat I would put is that these should not become permanent features of our economy - but should be until the current situation is resolved.

Not a good position for the economy - but looking at what has happened in New York or even in the Worker Dorms in Singapore (which are far more conducive to social distancing than any Indian city), we have no choice here. We can’t let lakhs or millions die - we have to stop this now, irrespective of the cost. And yes, even after lockdowns are lifted, we will need to live and work differently, keep testing on an ongoing basis and be prepared to crack down again if necessary. The only hope is if one of the existing drugs like Remdesivir turns out to work - but that is not something we can count on, and hence this may need to last for 18-24 months until a vaccine is found or the world achieves herd immunity.
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Old 18th April 2020, 16:01   #945
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman View Post
This is more or less the situation in Kerala and many places the locals have reached a boiling point. There is always two sides to the coin is what I always said.
In this video Panchayath officials were distributing high quality rice, and the migrant workers can be seen rejecting the rice and dumping it back in the jeep. There have been many skirmishes about the food supplied. The migrant workers are used to non veg food and are not happy with traditional Kerala veg food or the typical dal rice. Huge amount of food was wasted in community kitchens due to this.
.
Migrants complaining about food was also reported in Bangalore by bangalore mirror. Migrants say they are not used to South Indian food.

https://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.c...w/75189239.cms

Last edited by vb-san : 19th April 2020 at 07:38. Reason: Please post the correct representation
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