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View Poll Results: Do you support the lockdown extension? | |||
Yes | 299 | 47.46% | |
No | 244 | 38.73% | |
I'm unsure | 87 | 13.81% | |
Voters: 630. You may not vote on this poll |
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7th April 2020, 19:51 | #526 | |
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 The effectiveness of the lockdown in containing the spread of virus has been quantified by an ICMR study, says the Ministry of Health, Government of India. Quote:
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7th April 2020, 20:12 | #527 | ||||||
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
https://www.newindianexpress.com/sta...n-2124948.html And this... https://www.telegraphindia.com/india...es/cid/1760595 As per Time of India, Covid fatalities are 124 today, April 7th, 2020. One of the above articles is dated March 30th, and even by that time 17 people had died due to fatigue or starvation. Now, a week later, who knows how many have succumbed? While the authorities are religiously tracking Covid fatalities, there is very little official record of deaths resulting from an economic shutdown. So, please don't mark those advocating for opening the economy as elitists who are only interested in their wealth portfolios. That is not the case. Bottom line - shutting down the economy is costing us real lives. Some of those losses are visible immediately, while others will only be visible over time, and some losses of life will remain invisible in the public record forever. More importantly, we will set back all advances we have collectively made in pulling people above the poverty line. In large swathes, the purchasing power of generations will get affected as fundamental changes are made in the economy. When presented with these sad deaths of our poor countrymen, people will point to the government's recent steps to provide a basis subsistence income to this strata of the economy. Good. Great. But, where is that money going to come from? Without a functioning economy, there aren't any earnings, and so there isn't a tax base to speak of. So, how are we going to come up with the cash to put millions of our people under welfare schemes? And what about the thousands, or hundreds of thousands of the middle class who will potentially become unemployed, but won't technically qualify for any subsidies? What about them? Quote:
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Incidentally, do you say that to your boss? Meaning, do you tell him or her, "..if you don't agree with my output, please volunteer to do the work yourself"? Or can we accept that line from any of our elected leaders when they talk to journalists? Meaning, if they say to a reporter, "..if you don't agree with the decision, please sit on this seat and see how difficult it is", should we accept that and move on? Fact is that the journalist is just doing his job, just as the administrator is doing his. Of course the job is hard. That is the whole point of big and important jobs. But, no one forced anyone to become an administrator or a politician. People who work in these professions chose their vocation willingly. So, questioning any decision will and should always happen in a free society. That does not mean that those who raise questions are disloyal. For the record, I have not gone out to even buy milk since March 25th. I am obeying this lockdown to the letter. Also, I participated in the PM's call to demonstrate solidarity on 22nd March and on 5th April. But, that aside, we should all think about what this lockdown is costing us. It would be irresponsible not to. Quote:
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Just because you have money now and are sitting in the comfort of your home does not make you immune to economic pain. Thinking along such lines would be hugely unwise. Everyone is just a few degrees of separation away from that migrant labourer making that hellish trek home under the baking sun. Just 2 weeks into this lockdown and the economy is getting thrashed by all sorts of shock waves. So, you receiving a pay check is just today's reality. There is no telling what will happen to your job, or to your business, or to your pension tomorrow. Most importantly, that tomorrow isn't some horizon far far away; it could be as close as the next month or the next quarter. Think hard about that. So, please stop mouthing platitudes without thinking about how a family, whether that family is yours or any one else's, will survive if some or all of their economic power is obliterated by the time this lockdown is lifted. Quote:
Remember this. If people at your workplace - be it your boss or your management or your customer - are literally not being driven crazy by your absence and are therefore looking for every loophole to get you to come work, then you should be very worried. In fact, you should be worried regardless. Because once this lockdown is lifted, companies are going to look for every which way to optimise costs and that's when we will all find out where we stand. Even if you keep your job, it is highly likely that you will have to work for a lot less. Apna Prime Minister ka pagaar kat gaya tho hum kyaa cheez hain? Absolutely correct. There is no guarantee that a lockdown will solve everything 100%. If the virus can survive for days on surfaces and on fecal matter, then it is just a matter of time before we see a reemergence. What will do then? Last edited by mohansrides : 7th April 2020 at 20:35. | ||||||
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7th April 2020, 21:07 | #528 | |
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
Sure there are a multitude of things to be considered, everyone adds one perspective/view to the issue at hand, why come down heavy on one who had a different thought than yours instead of simply saying/adding your thoughts. Lastly, reality is not absolute. Last edited by wheelguy : 7th April 2020 at 21:23. | |
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8th April 2020, 11:00 | #529 | |
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
My point is when you do not face the heat yourselves you won't understand the seriousness for the situation. My offer to volunteer is to feel that heat in real time. If lockdown is lifted there would be flooding of cases in the emergency room and you would soon run out of doctors and other Health Care professionals- who would die faster than the people from other sectors, who would follow suit to the graveyards and incinerators in bulk with better bank balance. We would all be beggars if economy is closed down for six months or one year but our requirements would be minimal meantime and most of the ills are due to very high economic activity. Stopping it for time being would not harm the society. We can delay weapons purchases, space programme, Building new airports and concentrate on Core sectors. Government would support BPL to an extent. Where are the death statistics due to starvation. I have clearly mentioned death due to all causes has decreased. If you do not believe health department statistics. Municipal records would soon get it into light. Very few people would die of starvation as PDS is well oiled machinery and with removal of corruption we would be sustaining for few more weeks if not months. Agriculture activities may not be high now till the onset of monsoon. And we should get on top of this disease by then. My point people should not take Contrarian position and take the job of only questioning without knowing the realities, just to prove the point. I probably would not be around soon to prove anything if lock down becomes a failure and we face US/Italy like situation. The longer the lockdown we have better understanding of the disease and capability to manage it. | |
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8th April 2020, 11:08 | #530 | ||
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
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(Asking these questions because as lay people, we read a lot of these things and so naturally wonder. Of course epidemiologists and doctors with their experiences will be best placed to take the call based on the particular situation on the ground.) | ||
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8th April 2020, 11:17 | #531 | ||
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
Well I wanted to post a long winded reply with all the numbers and screenshots but then I realized the pain behind your reply and I totally understand. But a part of me can't help but compare it to what President Trump said during early March as well, or what Italy did earlier in Feb or even Spain. All of these countries prioritized business and economy over health (& rightly so 'cos at that time they had no inkling about the seriousness). But we do! We know what this disease is capable of. Allowing everyone to simply throng the market/ day to day affair is blatantly irresponsible and reeks of hypocrisy especially when even businessmen like Mr. Bajaj resort to hyperbole and misdirection (even selling snake-oil). Quote:
I understand your pain, but the catastrophe of community transmission, as of now, is simply too high to lift the lock-down. | ||
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8th April 2020, 11:54 | #532 | |||||
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
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Last edited by V.Narayan : 8th April 2020 at 11:57. | |||||
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8th April 2020, 12:08 | #533 | |
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
I won't stretch your swimming pool analogy, but from what I understand of this phased lifting of lock downs the idea is to more strictly lock down the districts and neighborhoods that have a large number of positive cases and seal them off more effectively from the unaffected ones. But I'm certainly no expert or even very well informed about the realities on the ground. | |
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8th April 2020, 12:36 | #534 |
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Infractions: 0/1 (7) | re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 |
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8th April 2020, 12:53 | #535 |
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020
I have merely quoted 5 as an example to make the point. Let the Govt with the help of its health, economic and social advisers figure out the right duration. The businesses I used to own and the ones I've invested in I know can survive a second payroll date with a lockdown - that will be about 5 weeks. Even the largest companies will not be able to sustain a third payroll date (31st May) with zero or marginal revenues. GST collection in March 2020 i.e. pertaining to the month of February was INR 97,000 crores~about 8% to 9% below the needed 105,000 crores. In April pertaining to March I would be surprised if the collection gets beyond a range of INR 75 to 80,000. For May i.e. pertaining to trade & production in April expect GST to be well below INR 50,000. The need to find the cash to deposit GST when the customers are not paying alone will cause a large number of micro and small businesses to fold in. These are just my views. Experts may have a different perspective. Last edited by V.Narayan : 8th April 2020 at 12:55. |
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8th April 2020, 12:54 | #536 | ||
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020
If we can consider the example of China, another 2 weeks can be very beneficial considering the first few days of the lock down were not very productive everywhere, especially UP/ NCR. I am sure there will be more such pockets. Rather than keeping all places locked, we should consider relaxations with strict border control in places where this got implemented even before national lock down like here in Chandigarh and Punjab. There have been no new cases in Chandigarh and the recent ones in Punjab were from a known group. It will be anybody’s guess what will be the benefits of opening the trade in isolation. However, if we can give Industrial units a priority, it will surely help. Quote:
Also, state Governments earn a lot from Land registries and Automobile RTO besides the sale of Petrol and Alcohol. There will be very little collections and the states won't able to pay salaries or pensions going forward. I was speaking to a state Government employee; they have paid salaries to Group D employees yesterday. They don't know when will the officers get the salaries and how much. Quote:
That’s the reason I strongly support partial opening up, containing clusters and monitoring open areas. I am sure most people will now behave differently than they were 4 weeks before. All such efforts should help. Last edited by Turbanator : 8th April 2020 at 13:18. | ||
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8th April 2020, 13:08 | #537 | ||
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And if we long down for the right duration, then majority of the country will be dead from hunger. We here, are the elite. We can afford being locked down. But for majority of the population of our country, they don't eat if they aren't working for a few days. Last edited by carboy : 8th April 2020 at 13:13. | ||
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8th April 2020, 13:13 | #538 |
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 In addition, I wonder how folks with very young kids (say <1-yr) are doing - vaccinations might be on hold; any visit to health centres / clinics are full of risks; avoiding going to clinics could also be a risk. I think it's much more challenging for first time parents who may not have any other support at home. In addition, I was reading an article that was hinting at potential baby boom during December 2020 / Jan 2021 period. Hospitals might have their hands full well beyond capacity for multiple reasons. At our apartment complex, the iron guy (who presses clothes) reached out to us for help. He (with family) was very badly affected. Luckily lot of people stepped up to offer help - monetary, supplies, and whatever else that might be considered necessary for the times. Many such people might not even have a recourse where they can safely reach out to someone for help. Hope things get back to normal soon with health and economy back on its feet (with added wings would be a bonus)! |
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8th April 2020, 13:44 | #539 | |||
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8th April 2020, 14:11 | #540 | ||
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