[mohansrides]

Originally Posted by Nalin1

Here in India, the pregnancy rule applies. You are either pregnant or not. Cannot be half-pregnant.

Or in other words, open up everything or close everything (or almost). Any of these half measures like luvDriving has described in the above post about limited timings, some products sold, some shops open etc means we will discuss here and argue with cops on the streets until the next virus hits us!.

Absolutely correct. Accepting risk and getting rid of the fear is the ONLY solution. Anything else will simply not fly. There is no dodging this truth.

One thing that everyone agrees on is that this virus is here to stay. And with its rate of transmission, this virus WILL succeed in running its course through the population. That's just a question of time. By the end of it, we would have anyways granted this virus its pound of flesh by way of direct Covid fatalities. And by that same time, we would have also given away countless lives, to this very same virus, by way of cratering the economy.

So, double whammy!! No, wait. Not even a double whammy. Four whammies.

• Suspension of personal freedoms. Check.
• Reprehensible treatment of the poor caught in limbo during the lockdown. Check.
• Full spectrum of Covid infections and deaths over time. Check.
• Deaths down the road due to economic hardship. Check.

And just for effect, let us add one more fun point to the mix -

• Ostracization of medical personnel, policemen, and other people fighting the good fight. This is happening as we speak. Vigilantes blocking roads. Doctors not being allowed into societies. Bodies of the dead not being allowed last rites. And what not. Of course, this is not due to the lockdown itself; but it is due to the fear of the virus that sparked the lockdown in the first place.

In short, the perception that contracting Covid19 = certain death is the fundamental problem that we have to tackle head-on. That perception will likely kill more people than the actual virus will.

[yd_gli]

The lockdown is now morphing into a comedy show on WhatsApp and Facebook. The police in the name of teaching people a lesson have resorted to antics that make them look like circus conductors and the citizens are being made into Jokers. I saw a video where kids were made to do bootcamp exercises and the recent ambulance episode in TN takes the cake. There is a fine line between enforcing the rules and making a mockery out of the situation. I think we're now well in to the mockery mode. Not cool when you see people not having enough to eat and a few crying hysterically out of their cars.

Originally Posted by luvDriving

Yet 5 mins into the shop opening and along comes a police ertiga. They take the shop owner into the car and zoom off.

This resembles a scene from Narcos. Basically we've made ourselves into a concoction of Narcos and Hera Pheri.

I supported lockdown 1.0 since I felt it was the right thing to do at the time. 2.0? Not so much. Now with the govt touting it's success with the lockdown everyday, the average Joe on the road thinks that the virus has been defeated and we can go back to normal lives May 4th. Sure, the numbers are not exponential but we're not even remotely close to normal life. It all seems a little too immature and childish with every passing day.

I would've loved for India to have been up there with Sweden/South Korea as countries who have tackled this crisis best. Unfortunately, we are all subjected to sub-standard comedy on WhatsApp. Our circumstances might be different but it doesn't warrant the parody. Let there be some logic and common sense in our approach!

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

Absolutely correct. Accepting risk and getting rid of the fear is the ONLY solution. Anything else will simply not fly. There is no dodging this truth.

You make some good points, and maybe some of them can't be escaped.

"I don't mean to be rude," usually means, "but I will be anyway." But, honestly, I don't mean to be rude when I say this, but... you do talk like a very young man.

I don't know your age: you might be older than me, but I get the feeling that you are thirty or forty years younger, and that a decade or three more might change your perspective.

(Which is not to say that you are not entitled to have and to express the perspective you have now)

[splitsecond]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

You make some good points, and maybe some of them can't be escaped.

"I don't mean to be rude," usually means, "but I will be anyway." But, honestly, I don't mean to be rude when I say this, but... you do talk like a very young man.

I don't know your age: you might be older than me, but I get the feeling that you are thirty or forty years younger, and that a decade or three more might change your perspective.

(Which is not to say that you are not entitled to have and to express the perspective you have now)

If covid killed younger people instead of old, like the spanish flu of 1920's i am sure poll result would have been completely different. Like "Yes I fully support lock down" = 99%
Ps:I am 36

[mohansrides]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

You make some good points, and maybe some of them can't be escaped.

"I don't mean to be rude," usually means, "but I will be anyway." But, honestly, I don't mean to be rude when I say this, but... you do talk like a very young man.

I don't know your age: you might be older than me, but I get the feeling that you are thirty or forty years younger, and that a decade or three more might change your perspective.

(Which is not to say that you are not entitled to have and to express the perspective you have now)

This (Many parts of India are in curfew) should answer your question. And by the way, as long as you do not physically do any harm, you have every right to be rude, to me or to anyone else. Fortunately, that is not yet a constitutional right that has been taken away from us. So, go ahead and be rude. No problem.

Coming back what is being discussed, what is your suggestion? That, in the name of supposedly keeping everyone safe, we remain in lockdown in perpetuity and flush everyone's life down the toilet due to economic ruin? Is that your position?

I am asking because this virus is not going away. Going by history, it took 30 years to develop a vaccine for Ebola. Even if we set aside that a lot of that delay was due to reasons of economic ROI for pharma companies in coming up with that particular vaccine, we now have multiple people speaking up (here and here) about how a vaccine for Covid may or may not happen.

So, what should we do? We are running out of food. When I say "we", I don't mean me or you exactly. But, it has now been stated at the highest platforms that the economic cost of these combat measures is headed in a direction where they will lead to starvation and lives being ruined in the numbers that would be far greater than direct Covid deaths. We are also getting to the point where we can't even pay salaries to the policemen and civil servants who are currently working. So, what are we to do? Pray tell me.

By the way, my choice is not about choosing one age group over another. My choice stems from my belief that this virus, despite its higher transmission rate, will NOT infect everyone in the first place. Because it has not shown that kind of trajectory in places line NYC which have essentially remained open (businesses may be closed there; but the city is generally open and people are out and about albeit in lesser crowds); or even in India. Yes, the infections will steadily increase in a country of a billion people. But, at the end of it all, I am willing to wager that the final number of detected infections will be a fraction of our population.

Originally Posted by splitsecond

If covid killed younger people instead of old, like the spanish flu of 1920's i am sure poll result would have been completely different. Like "Yes I fully support lock down" = 99%
Ps:I am 36

As long as we talking in hypotheticals, we can throw about any numbers we want because no one will know for sure.

But, the question now is not whether a lockdown is right or wrong. The question is what next?

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

So, what should we do? We are running out of food. When I say "we", I don't mean me or you exactly. But, that the economic cost of these combat measures is headed in a direction where they will lead to starvation and lives being ruined in the numbers that would be far greater than direct Covid deaths.

I've been saying this since day 1, one may have enough savings, one may have enough support, but nothing will prepare this entire earth for the day when there is a failed crop harvest ENTIRELY, due to the fact that either seeds weren't available, or manure/fertillizer weren't available, or when the farmer had no incentive to do so due to his life being in lockdown save for work, or if the transport chain failed us. Your favorite orange and mango packaged drinks exist because farmers send them the fruits, and the whole bread and biscuit industry survive on the maida dispatches.

That will affect young, old, middle aged, all of them together. This scenario is like being in a ship in the middle of the ocean, where people are refusing to bail out by jumping into the ocean and swimming, not knowing that there are sparks in the engine room and a fire is soon to spread.

[Turbanator]

So the Government suddenly decides to open up a lot of things!

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/in-l...home-topscroll


https://twitter.com/PIBHomeAffairs/s...52810882994176

[born_free]

Originally Posted by splitsecond

If covid killed younger people instead of old, like the spanish flu of 1920's i am sure poll result would have been completely different. Like "Yes I fully support lock down" = 99%
Ps:I am 36

We all act based on self interest and survival instincts and that is human nature.
Most of us on this forum are relatively well off and have not experienced economic or survival hardships during lockdown, it's not surprising that majority voted for lockdown.

If all of us faced loss of livelihood due to lockdown I am sure majority of votes would be against lockdown.

[bj96]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

So the Government suddenly decides to open up a lot of things!...

Yep. They have run out of guineapigs. Now they are trying rabbits and praying experiment succeeds .

In my neighbourhood every Tom who has a neighbor like Harry and Dick, encroached on public lane around his house and barricaded with bamboo, cane or log of wood stopping even pedestrians to reach other side. One Harry, defying all logic, even has parked his Tata Chhota Hathi perpendicular to the alley blocking everything. We now have like 10 lockdown zones in a area of around 5000sqm.

-BJ

[Ithaca]

Restaurants in my area have begun opening up only for online delivery or parcel services. They were shut during the first 21 days of the lockdown but once extension was announced, I guess they could not sustain the costs incurred and have opened up.
A few of them (kudos to the thoughtful owners) had kept their entire cooking and wait staff within the restaurant premises for the duration of the 21 day lockdown since most outstation trains and buses were not allowed to operate.

One positive of this move - we can walk down to the favorite restaurant and pick up ice cream of our choice during these hot summer days.

Similarly a dealer in a famous local Tea brand too keeps his shop open during the day but duly shuts shop by 1700 hours.

[warrioraks]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

So the Government suddenly decides to open up a lot of things!

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/in-l...home-topscroll

This marks the start of a cat and mouse game between economy and lockdowns.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

This (Many parts of India are in curfew) should answer your question. ... ... ...

Thanks, now I have a better idea of where you are coming from, rather than my own assumptions which are, as often, wrong.

I do believe a time-limited lockdown could have made a difference, and perhaps it has already, but right from the beginning, with short notice and poor contingency planning, I'm afraid we just keep going back to square one.

We are there again today. Far from opening up, TN has decided on four days of more intense lockdown. This time, even my wife went out to buy necessaries, and it seems it's chaos out there. I wonder how many infections happened this morning?

I have been in favour of lockdown, assuming time and space is allowed for limited buying of food etc. Yes, especially on a driving forum here, it is easy to question how much we can rely on discipline of us people. But when we suddenly have another panic-shopping situation, what to do?

No attempt at answers from me. Just feeling frustration now. And, yes, fear.

[Miyata]

How Shutdowns Will Keep Killing the Economy, Even When They're Over

Even beyond the short term, business owners have no way to plan. If a business owner is allowed to actually conduct business during the summertime this year, it may still be that politicians will later elect to shut businesses whenever it is decided the risk of spreading viruses demands another "shutdown."

...

Statewide lockdowns don't take into account diversity in health, demographics, and market conditions. Instead economic activity is halted in a one-size-fits-all fashion based on what politicians — not consumers, mind you — deem to be "essential." Even worse, changes can be be quickly imposed by a small handful of policymakers without public debate or consultation. There is no time for businesses to adjust.

This is a view that applies to every country under the current situation of 'lockdowns'. I doubt if many of the business owners in India will ever receive any impactful benefits from the government although they are expected to keep paying salaries while they continue facing uncertainties (now and later) about getting revenues.

I see few bakery stores near my apartment have started selling essentials - fruits/veg/water etc and using that as a front to also keep the bakery open. Innovative of them.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by Miyata

.... I doubt if many of the business owners in India will ever receive any impactful benefits from the government although they are expected to keep paying salaries while they continue facing uncertainties (now and later) about getting revenues...

Stuff doesn't work in isolation (pun unintended). Even the small standalone stores that have been allowed to open in this latest notification depend on an entire ecosystem to keep them functional, and it takes time, effort, money and people to mobilize.

Without clear communications and in times of economic uncertainty, would a small-time store owner want to stock up if he doesn't know he'll even stay open long enough to recover his costs? Wouldn't he be justified in keeping his meager finances for his immediate family's needs, instead of tying it up in goods he may not be able to sell?

[samaspire]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Far from opening up, TN has decided on four days of more intense lockdown. This time, even my wife went out to buy necessaries, and it seems it's chaos out there. I wonder how many infections happened this morning?

But when we suddenly have another panic-shopping situation, what to do?

And, yes, fear.

You have good reasons to be fearful. These pictures are from TN.