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View Poll Results: Do you support the lockdown extension? | |||
Yes | 299 | 47.46% | |
No | 244 | 38.73% | |
I'm unsure | 87 | 13.81% | |
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2nd June 2020, 14:06 | #2281 | |
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| Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
How many people from the migrant labor 'camps', or from slums, or those living on footpaths do you think get access to life-saving critical care (even if we forget COVID-19 even exists for them for a second)? COVID-19 isn't the only illness harming/killing people, and even those who can afford to pay are having trouble getting it because of hospitals shutting down sections or all of their services to common folk owing to the paranoia/hysteria of the pandemic. I can't begin to imagine who is looking to cover healthcare needs of people who aren't even being provided basic existential necessities. The poor sods were asked and expected to pay their own (inflated) fares to go home, two months after being jobless, until public furore got the authorities to back off. Then Karnataka tried canceling a bunch of trains because the construction lobby freaked out over potential labor shortage if labor was 'allowed' to go back. There are hordes of people right now waiting and trying to register for an opportunity to get on a train back home, expected to use the internet for the privilege. There are people trying to make money off even this registration process, money the penniless laborer doesn't have. A poor person who can't afford emergency care is no more able to get it than I can walk into the nearest supercar showroom right now and buy one, hence the analogy. If one dies on a sidewalk unattended, what difference does it make whether the sidewalk is right outside a multi-speciality hospital or a 1000 miles from it? Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 2nd June 2020 at 14:09. | |
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2nd June 2020, 17:45 | #2282 |
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| Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020
Guess, you didnt read what I wrote. Here, almost all care is being given by govt for covid, detection and hospitalization. I hope they are not differentiating the poor and rich. |
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2nd June 2020, 18:15 | #2283 | |
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| Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 It seems there was great danger in March/April 2020 and we had Lockdown 1, subsequently Lockdowns 2, 3, 4. It seems the danger has passed and we are moving towards Unlock 1, with easing of restrictions, crowded public transports, flights/train resumption, the opening of AC restaurants. I can see the lowering of the guard. For instance, conformance on wearing masks was almost 90% in April and today is around 30%. What was the danger in April, which has passed now? BTW, India on the verge of 2L cases. Quote:
Last edited by msdivy : 2nd June 2020 at 18:20. | |
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2nd June 2020, 19:23 | #2284 | |
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| Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
Early in the Feb, my Air India morning flight from Pune to Delhi got cancelled because of a suspected Covid carrier in the incoming flight from Delhi! By the evening, it was clear that the patient did not have the Covid symptoms, but the aircraft was grounded, sanitized, and the crew kept out of flying duties. Every Govt (including India) was extremely complacent (and perhaps "rightly" so because they were mislead by the Chinese and WHO) - but steps could've been taken to eliminate the entry of virus into India. | |
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3rd June 2020, 00:09 | #2285 | ||
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| Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
There are plenty more posts here by other people who have made cogent and lucid cases for lifting the lockdown. Indeed. I remember how we were among the small minority arguing against this idiotic lockdown. Now, there is a groundswell of support for that line of thought. I feel that this entire Covid episode is one giant con that was inadvertently perpetrated by a bunch of people. Someone noticed a new flu and asked some questions; and soon that inquiry took on a life of its own and royally rogered the world. For its part, our government never took the time to ask the right questions and to evaluate its options. Even worse, the government refused to initiate a course correction after lockdown 1.0, or even after lockdown 2.0. The migrant crisis was all too visible then, and it was getting worse by the day. But, instead of examining the cost of their choices everyone frantically pointed at Italy and suggested that we were at the cusp of an apocalypse. Just for reference, here is Italy's population pyramid.. And here is ours... No one bothered to ask or discuss the potential costs of a lockdown as a counter measure. Especially in a place like India which is fraught with inequality. Anyone questioning the lockdown was labelled "greedy" or as someone "more worried about money than about life". What utter nonsense was being propogated in the public discourse, and even here on this thread!! There was not even a perfunctory effort to dwell on what an economy actually means and on how it affects the crores of people in this country; many of whom barely eke out a living. To all those people who say that it is hard to foresee the migrant crisis or other problems that came with the lockdown, I say, no, I don't think that it is that hard at all. Here (Many parts of India are in curfew) is a post from March 23rd. I wrote this just 2 days before Lockdown 1.0. If I could foresee it, surely the many smart people in government certainly can. A lockdown is a heady cocktail of social injustice, economic catastrophe, and nightmarish logistics. But, above all the pragmatic arguments against the lockdown, there is the one of principle. A lockdown is essentially undemocratic. A lockdown is about forcing choices on people who simply cannot afford those choices. Why should someone stay indoors and forsake their daily bread because you and I want to feel safe? Is this disease so deadly that it is worth surrendering our freedoms, and worth subjecting the poor to unspeakable cruelties? Not one person bothered to ask these questions. Instead, the government was busy announcing this economic package and that economic package. All for nought. Because without the basic information of when and how people would be back at work, all those packages mean nothing. The notion being bandied was that the lockdown was only temporary and that in 3 to 5 weeks, we would see infections falling. Well, that sure worked out, didn't it? Even a child would have predicted that a pathogen with this much versatility and stamina is going to be around,.... well forever. Result, we corralled ourselves into a lockdown that we had no clue how to exit. All this for a disease that is nothing more than a variation of the flu. More deadly the average flu, yes. But, not so deadly that we have to lock down 1.3 billion people and wade right into human tragedy of our own making. That is for sure. As (Dr.) vivek95 here has said, we live in a sea of microbes. More often than not, the microbes lose. Not the other way around. The best thing to do is to stop testing altogether and just treat symptomatic patients. No social distancing. No quarantine. No nothing. Just treat this as another flu and move on. Because that’s essentially what this is. Quote:
Don't believe me? Look around you. If the disease is truly so deadly, there is no way that the government does a virtual U-turn. They may still use the term lockdown 5; but in reality the effort is to get everyone out and back to their lives. You can clearly see that in the tone and substance of public discourse from the government. Here is a video of Akshay Kumar asking people to get out and work. This same Akshay Kumar was chastising people about coming out during the lockdown. That should tell you something about what the government feels about this disease now - | ||
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3rd June 2020, 00:48 | #2286 | |
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| Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
This is what the Kerala chief minister had said today-- "In containment areas (121 hotspots in the state), curfew will be imposed till June 30 and only emergency services will be allowed. “In containment areas, lockdown will be complete. It will be a curfew. There is no room for any complacency in such areas,” he said." So even when Central Govt is 'unlocking', there are regional lockdowns happening across the country. Total lockdown with testing, contact tracing and quarantining is and will always be the best way to limit the disease spread and further prevent community transmission. But once community transmission has happened, there's no point locking down further, as contact tracing and quarantining is a waste, hence the central govt has given up. Do remember, if the people are disciplined, obeys the instructions given by experts, avoid unnecessary travel and meetings, then a lockdown is not necessary. So the only way to prevent another lockdown? Show the government that the citizens are disciplined, practice social distancing, wash hands, remain at home and only venture out for essentials and work. Fyi: this is not just another flu. This thing is highly contagious. It may not affect people sitting in infront of computers, but this disease is definitely giving nightmares to the millions of healthcare workers in India and around the world, and they are working overtime and sacrificing their lives for the patients. If it was just a flu, the hospital beds wouldn't have been filled with corpses. Last edited by Aditya_Bhp : 3rd June 2020 at 00:59. | |
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3rd June 2020, 01:23 | #2287 | |||
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| Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
Fact is that we are waking up that the resources that we are expending in containing Covid is simply not worth it. This disease is simply not that deadly. By the way, the guy who tested positive in our society is back in a week. All fine. We were thinking that they would keep him for 3 weeks or at least 2 weeks. Nope. He is good. "Go home", they told him. Even the vigilantes in the housing society are waking up to the unsustainability of a lockdown. We have plenty of seniors walking now. Initially, the states said no to air travel. Just a day later, they accepted limited flights. The number of people travelling is steadily increasing. Similarly, states came out with all kinds of rules for inter-state travel. Now, all that has been set aside, save for some precautionary instructions. The pace at which we are easing rules is quite fast. Thankfully so. In two more weeks, we will see where this goes. As I said, they will continue to use the term "lockdown" as they would look silly telling people that they were wrong. But, the situation will be far from a lockdown. Because, if we go back to lockdown, we can forget about feeding people. Quote:
What a joke!! Like I said, most people who think that these measures are possible in India are living in an alternate reality. Even the government doesn't stress on it. Notice that in the Akshay Kumar video, he dismisses the chance of getting infected, and then further dismisses the seriousness of the disease even if he were to get infected. That should tell you a whole lot about the message that the government is trying to convey to the people that it scared into staying indoors. Quote:
The truth is that no city ever has as many beds as citizens. So, if we plonk a whole bunch of people with mild symptoms in hospitals, then the ones who die are going to make it look like the disease is a catastrophe. This disease kills no more than any other. In fact, as a percentage it kills a lot fewer than others. But sure, let us give it God status and choke our hospitals and make sure that even treatable sicknesses are left untreated. And while we are at that, let us also sink the economy that feeds and clothes a billion people. | |||
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3rd June 2020, 02:34 | #2288 | ||||||
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| Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020
If it has killed 3.8 Lakh people in 4 months, it is deadly, if it weren't deadly, why would doctors and nurses wear PPEs? They can wear regular clothes, it would be more comfortable and they will be able to work longer. Quote:
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Other diseases like Bacterial Pneumonia, the progression is linear, and is well documented. And if its a deadly disease, necessary interventions can be done beforehand. This is not possible here. No one knows if a Covid19 patient will live or die tomorrow. The mortality may be less, but then no one can predict who lives and who dies. If I get infected today, a doctor cannot assure me that I will be there tomorrow. Death rate is more in elderly, immunocompromised, hypertensives etc, so we should protect them by practicing Reverse quarantine. Last edited by Aditya_Bhp : 3rd June 2020 at 02:37. | ||||||
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3rd June 2020, 03:01 | #2289 | |
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| Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
In Italy the news of lockdown leaked a mere day before it was implemented and by then lakhs of people had moved across North and South. This became a big problem to control the spread and caused a second cluster. So I can see the merits of a surprise lockdown. For the migrants to stay put though we needed a coherent plan where the net migrant positive states (here I mean Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Maharashtra and Delhi), the migrant source source states (West Bengal, Bihar, Jharkhand, Orissa and UP) and the center to decide on a mechanism of immediate cash relief (perhaps a dole given at banks against Aadhar cards), shelter and food. This step was completely missing and the rest, well, kind of snowballed from there when people started to walk rather than starve. Last edited by digitalnirvana : 3rd June 2020 at 03:04. | |
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3rd June 2020, 03:30 | #2290 | ||||||
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| Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
Covid is not the only killer out there. There are plenty more waiting for all of us. Roughly 1.5 lac people die every day. In the 6 months since Covid began, that translates to roughly 300 lac deaths. Out of those 300 lacs, 3 lacs are Covid deaths. So, the logic of shutting down entire societies to protect people from a possible Covid death is downright stupid. You can argue that deaths would have been more without a lockdown. But, how much more? If you are going to shut down entire societies and put more than 90% of the workforce out of work and push them to the brink of starvation, then the disease better be really really deadly. That certainly is not the case with Covid. Today, the government broke out more data showing that our death rate is very low, and even in that low death rate, 50% of the deaths are occuring in 10% of the population. Slowly, they are realising the cost of the trade-off of a lockdown vs. the actual disease. Quote:
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Remember that the original narrative was that we will ease lockdown when the curve flattens. But, our infections are going up every day, and yet, the government has chosen to initiate Unlock 1.0, and to make this ad with Akshay. That is the clearest sign of things to come. Bottom line = You can continue to believe that your world will end with Covid. That is your choice. But, the rest of the world is moving on and opening up. No amount of argument is changing that. Period. Last edited by Aditya : 4th June 2020 at 07:57. Reason: Repeated words deleted | ||||||
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3rd June 2020, 08:31 | #2291 |
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| Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 |
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3rd June 2020, 11:02 | #2292 |
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| Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020
Except, that there is no cure. To be honest, we need to stop falling into this hysteria which media has created for this virus. With a mortality rate < 3 % (it might be actually a lot lower, given the fact that there are no antibody tests done in India right now), we need to seriously move on with life now. We cannot be locked down forever. There are no signs that this virus will ever leave us or even if it disappears won't come back. The focus should now be on stopping the fear mongering, building a healthy personal immune system and gradually getting our lives back to normal. Vaccine may take time, herd immunity (if at all applicable) will take time, that doesn't mean we keep ourselves locked down forever. And you also mentioned in your previous post that every person who tests positive should get admitted to the hospital. This would prove catastrophic for the overall health system not only in India but in any country. We know right that there are N number of difference diseases far more dangerous and requiring hospitalisation, than corona virus ? Infact, the Delhi CM mentioned in his press briefing yesterday and insisted (rightly so) that asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic patients should observe home quarantine, and for a change i agree with Delhi CM. Bottom line is that we need to live with Corona. We need not and cannot run away from it. And, there is no need for the sought of panic which media has created. |
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3rd June 2020, 12:17 | #2293 | |
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| Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
They had some time to think through it and prepare. | |
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3rd June 2020, 12:27 | #2294 | |
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| Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
Our Company Driver doing material deliveries comes back from Jaipur last week and feels body ache on return, he comes the next day to the office and we notice high fever. We send him back home and tell him to see a Doctor. He goes to a nearby Doctor in the locality and he gets some blood tests done for Typhoid and few other things. Everything comes negative. He was prescribed Paracetamol to keep his fever in check. We tell him to go and report to the nearest COVID Hospital (found that Gurgaon has only One COVID Hospital currently!!) Not surprisingly, no one checks him and tell him to come back if his fever persists. I call SRL to get the private testing done but they need a prescription from a doctor before they can take a test. Fine, so he goes to a larger hospital, they write the Test and we send the documents to SRL. They reject, asking Doctors name, EMail, and Cell Number. He goes back to the hospital and they refuse to give details and instead give Landline numbers and a general Mail ID of their hospital. SRL does not accept that. Next Day, I spoke to that Hospital, asking the way out when they offer to organize a test at their own hospital, we pay fees and our person goes and wait for the mobile unit to turn up. After a long wait (3-4 Hours) they take the sample. The Report came Positive yesterday. Apart from body ache, this guy is well and lives with his wife and a small kid in a one-room house. Hospital, where he got the test done, does not accept the COVID patients and nor does any other hospital here except a Government ESI center. He goes there and after 2-3 hours of wait is prescribed some medicines and sent home and told to maintain distance from the family. None of his family members were tested. He was prescribed - Cipcal D3, Paracetamol-500 & Vitamin C Chewable tablets. Out of abundant caution, I have got 6 of our staff (from total 12) from that branch tested. This time, we went with Medanta. They charge Rs 200 for registration, Rs 1000 for Doctor prescription & Rs 4500 for COVID. Took almost 5 hours to complete the formalities and by the time they could find the sample collection place, which is somewhere outside the hospital, the doctors had left for home. They work 930-430. Today morning, samples are given as I type sitting alone in the office as I have asked everyone to remain at home until test reports come. Last edited by Turbanator : 3rd June 2020 at 12:36. | |
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3rd June 2020, 12:49 | #2295 |
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| Re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Most people have no idea about the seriousness of the matter. They are safe from Covid-19 as they stay in front of the computer most of the time, and also have Work From Home options as well. The only ones who are suffering are the resident doctors, the nursing staff, and other health care workers. Most of them do not even go home fearing the disease might spread to their family. They still do not have sufficient quality protective gears. They are humans, and are suffering from depression, stress and anxiety. They are basically slaves as of now. And India has done little for the health care workers. The least we can do is to prevent further transmission of the disease by social distancing, washing hands and avoiding unnecessary travel, and protect the health care staff. If educated people cannot follow basic precautions, I don't think its necessary that the doctors and nurses need to work overtime and sacrifice their lives for patients. The health care workers can sit at home, sit in front of the TV and watch people die. The virus is here too stay, but that doesn't mean we should loosen the guard. There is going to be an explosion of cases in the coming 1 month. By June 30th, we will have almost 5 lakh cases at the current rate. With relaxations, the numbers will be more. Unless the govt acts swift, India will be doomed. Last edited by vb-saan : 3rd June 2020 at 13:06. Reason: Post trimmed; the anger is understood, but please avoid comments against fellow members - generic or personal. |
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