[mvadg]

Internal circulars indicate govt to lift lockdown by mid-June
Business Standard | 19/04/2020 |

Some recent internal government circulars indicate the Centre foresees a complete lifting of the lockdown only by the middle of June. On Wednesday, the Department of Personnel and Training (DoPT) issued a notice that announced postponing the start of a post-graduate degree course for senior bureaucrats at the Indian Institute of Management (IIM), Bangalore. The DoPT said the post- graduate degree programme in public policy and management for 2020-21 at IIM Bangalore “has been tentatively rescheduled to commence in the middle of June, 2020”. It would intimate the fresh dates as soon they are finalised, the DoPT said. The course was earlier scheduled to begin on April 24. Similarly, the last date for receiving applications for several similar courses for bureaucrats has been extended until June 15.

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by Safety is Param

Perhaps I am going through the same while dealing with my 3-yr old during this lock down.

MAN, you have some kid there. I guess most of them are like that, heck my much elder cousin still behaves like one of them and his kid is 10x more of himself.

I guess I'll always be if the rare variety I used to sort out the tv/vcr remotes on the center table at that age (3 years), sort out keys and other stuff and in fact used to wipe clean the dining table, television and tape deck when I was 10 years old.

I've always been a bit fastidious and organized.. the only complaint I've gotten from school was that I was too uptight and reserved (teachers are unbelievable). I remember even polishing my keyboard with Colin in the days of the desktop.

[am1m]

Unable to understand why Telangana has extended the lockdown till May 7th. What are 4 additional days going to accomplish that all these days didn't? And why ban home delivery of food? Just because of the news reports of the pizza delivery guy in Delhi?

Decision seems driven more by panic and the perpetual 'better safe than sorry' sentiment than medical science to me.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by mvadg

Internal circulars indicate govt to lift lockdown by mid-June

I don't think it can continue for that long. Many States won't agree as we are seeing with Kerala. Besides, it will leave most people with no monies. Not to forgot the need to see Doctors for other health issues. Yes, we can't see 3rd as an opening but they will need to certainly open up few things.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/coro...home-topscroll

If this is true, it will be very worrisome. We will be sitting ducks in our homes to get infected from the essential services guys or whatever limited contacts we all have. The sooner the Government understands that this lock down won’t keep a major population of this country from getting affected, the easier it will be for everyone to accept this new reality. Don't know if it's a fact, but many doctors in private admit that there is no way one can miss catching this disease. It's more of "when" than anything else.

Despite being in complete lock down for over 30 Days, we are still seeing high numbers with each passing day; I agree that these would have much higher had we not locked down, but our infrastructure cannot allow us a complete quarantine. It’s a fact that the Government must accept. Since we have come this far, no harm in continuing till 3rd but if this trend continues, it will be pure foolishness to continue extension.

[m8002?]

This has become the easy way out. Just keep extending the lockdown again and again.
There is one state which did a good job of tracking, containing, treating the infected and managing the migrant workforce. Now when they want to open up gradually, they are being forced to implement the strict lockdown.
https://www.rediff.com/news/report/c...n/20200420.htm

Since they did everything right till now, I would assume the administration knows what its doing. But.....

[carboy]

Originally Posted by m8002?

This has become the easy way out. Just keep extending the lockdown again and again.
There is one state which did a good job of tracking, containing, treating the infected and managing the migrant workforce. Now when they want to open up gradually, they are being forced to implement the strict lockdown.
https://www.rediff.com/news/report/c...n/20200420.htm

Since they did everything right till now, I would assume the administration knows what its doing. But.....

I know federalism is only for namesake in India, but does the center have the right to stop them opening up?

[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by carboy

I know federalism is only for namesake in India, but does the center have the right to stop them opening up?

Funny part is center waited till Sunday night to send the letter to the state. It shows that their real concern is something else just like their date of lock down announcement.

Lock down till 03-May is good as we still do not know how this virus is spreading in India and we do not have the capability and infrastructure to control the wide spread. Only way to prevent spread is lock down.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

Only way to prevent spread is lock down.

That will be true even 2 months from now. Unless of course, some magic happens like the hot summer radically prevents spread. And even in that case, it will be true again once temperatures start going down in June.

[am1m]

It's true that the lock down, even imperfect, is helping, no one will deny that. But the experts have also stressed that just lock down is not going to solve the issue, testing, isolation must be done in that time.

So why not let those states that have done a good job of controlling the spread, open partially? At least those districts that meet the criteria of no new cases in 14/28 days, or based on some such statistics. Why do all states and districts have to remain under complete lock down just because some of them are not doing a good enough job of testing and isolating, which is precisely what this extended lock down was meant for them to do. Bangalore has just released a list of containment zones. So from what I understand, that was what the lock down was meant for, to identify such zones and isolate them. So why not let there be some partial relaxations of life outside those containment zones? (Again, definitely DOES NOT mean go back to life as normal.)

[The Rationalist]

A state like Kerala which has done a good job till now is now being asked to continue enforcing strict lock down! Really. What for, there is no inter state travels and from where do they think the virus will come from? You can’t lock down till all the states in India is free of Corona, if some states are not doing well, that’s no reason to punish other states!

The cases that are being tested positive in Kerala are those who are not infective, but who remains positive as the test RT-PCR detects the virus and doesn’t mean the person is infective. Why they are tested late is due to lack of test kits, that’s because the Central government doesn’t have enough test kits. Only Brazil test less than India among major countries.

There are millions of Indians stranded abroad and are we going to let them to their fate? The progress we have made till now has been in part due to the diaspora and the foreign currency remittances. They are as much Indians as we all are. Kerala itself has seen 38 people form the state who died outside India while the state has lost only 3 here. Many of those who died abroad are below 50 years and the more we let expatriates stay there, the more would succumb to the illness.

[vivek95]

It is inappropriate to impose restrictions on Kerala. Unless the state partially lifts the lockdown, medical science would also never understand if the virus is indeed contained effectively. Some calculated risk has to be taken knowing that Sars-Cov2 is going to remain for sometime. Theoretically, the world has to stop altogether if we never want a mention of "communicable diseases", not only Covid-19 but every contagious disease out there.

[yd_gli]

Originally Posted by am1m

Decision seems driven more by panic and the perpetual 'better safe than sorry' sentiment than medical science to me.

This is the case when you have a bunch of non-scientific, uneducated, land owners running the state governments. Have you seen any decision over the last month that has had sound scientific reasoning and data backing it up? I'll bet that a majority of our leaders had no idea what ICMR was until the pandemic hit us . Heck, the Pune officials had announced back in April 1st week that there were no new cases for the previous 3 days and hence the lockdown was successful. We had only ~ 60 to 70 cases then. Please check where we are today.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Despite being in complete lock down for over 30 Days, we are still seeing high numbers with each passing day

What do you expect when people refuse to sit in their homes. Have you seen images of people in Mumbai buses today? Please have a look and you'll have your answer.

[MCR]

Social distancing is a farce in India. There is no understanding of one's personal space. Just visit any grocery store and one can understand. We have also seen riots breaking out and Doctors getting injured and what not. If it was business as usual the COVID-19 cases in India would have surpassed that of USofA by now.

[subraiyr]

The first lockdown - Every country is doing it, plus all advisors - medical, social, economic are telling us it is best. Lets do it. When should it start, what should we do, what is the plan during lockdown - Oh well, we will come up with it soon.

The idea of Lockdown 1.0 was to make sure that we address all inter state, inter country travel and prohibit movement across country, state district lines. It was also to set up infrastructure to manage the pandemic. So in the first 3 weeks + T-3 weeks, nothing much moved. Test kits were still being waited upon. T+4 weeks, Karnataka receives test kits. That's 4 weeks of minimal testing. Same is true for many other states. In all this chaos, the labour classes left in lurch. Govt releases fiscal package, but implementation is left to states and what happens. Rice and Dal not reaching the common man. I have met several people who have ration cards, Aadhar cards, stood in queue for food and not received one little grain

The Second Lockdown - Oh no...cases are not flattening. Lets get together to assess. In the meantime, 2 states announce extension. Follow the firstmover whether it is correct or not. I don't want to be responsible for any specific decisions. And so lockdown 2.0 starts. What was the reason behind it ? What were we trying to achieve in another 2.5 weeks of lockdown. No clue. Dr Devi Shetty and a few others were asked to develop and exit strategy and they came up with a paper. It looked good, sounded good and could've been implemented. Oh no - let us not be the first one to jump into a river. And it stopped and lockdown continued

Do we have an exit strategy ? If you ask any of the states or even the center, they will search high and low to come up with a strategy paper.

Today - Telengana has said they will extend the lockdown till 7th (Thursday) which i am sure will get extended till 11th (Monday). You don't want to open up over a weekend and let the mad rush in. I am sure in another week many of the states will start acting on similar lines and soon center may swing that way.

I did vote for option 2, partial lockdown. We have to have a strategy in place for Lockdown 2.0 and the next versions. It has to be partial in hot zones. If an apartment has a Covid patient, lockdown the apartment for the next 14 days or 28 days. If a street has a Covid patient, lockdown the street for the same time as above. But also start testing all inhabitants in the complex or street. This is like any other data analytics work that is done. Form your clusters, dig deep into clusters. This should have been the action plan for Lockdown 2.0. But we have not achieved this. There are some states which are doing this, not all

How long can you keep a gregarious population within confines of their homes. This is a powder keg and it will explode soon unless the center and the state jointly create an exit plan. Time for strategy is over. It has to be done now in sprints.

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by vivek95

Theoretically, the world has to stop altogether if we never want a mention of "communicable diseases", not only Covid-19 but every contagious disease out there.

I did my own low budget research as well, basically involving just, talking. Call it curiosity or call it boredom, and I have some interesting results.

I interacted with the frontline - the garbage men, the municipality sweepers, the delivery men etc. Here are some eye popping results spread into points :

1) Garbage handlers aren't tested, just basic guidelines to protect themselves. Most dont wear gloves, by most I mean 90%, and seeing that they handle plastic bins, makes for an interesting thought. They go through decontamination each day, big whoop if one of them is a carrier, makes no sense.

2) Sweepers are better equipped but basically reusing masks, with them the risk is clearly on their court. They all look fine though, no testing done here either, are the governments insane?

3) Delivery men handle their phones (ground zero of all bacteria), handle food in plastic containers and handle their bikes. Even in the most lax of situations that isnt good hygene, the people are more than happy to shovel that food down their gullet though, imagining that they are safe. Assuming every time the delivery rider washes the hand before going into the hotel, he shortly touches the phone and handlebar which are prone to retaining microbes, billions of them. The spit from the mouth, which everyone dreads like the bubonic plague today, is ever present on the phone, talk on phone, use touch functions and then deliver the food - perfect recipe for disaster.

4) The hotels themselves cannot promise hygene, its impossible. Thats like believing soft drink manufacturers who say their glass bottles are hygenic because of rewashing, no they aren't. One sneeze or one wrong touch is all it takes, what is the guarantee?

5) Big Basket delivers in crates, plastic ones. Better to go to a local grocer any day, carrying our own cover and washing the produce at home in hot water.

I'm not trying to sound like an elite germaphobe, though I am an ex germaphobe which made me research on these things years ago. One touch of the door handle, bike handle, car steering wheel or phone is enough to undo a wash in an instant.

Something does NOT add up here, either the virus is much less harmful than its portrayed to be, or the goverment is clearly, hurting the great sacrifice of its people by allowing a few to venture out and do 50 people's jobs for them. Problem is like the Delhi case where all customers were locked up (yes, up) for the positive result of one delivery man. Individual households functioning on their own have a slightly better chance of avoiding getting caught in serial lockups.

When we clearly, widely open our eyes, somethings dont quite add up.