[sv97]

Voted no simply because of the data and privacy issues associated with the app.

Having doctors in the family I know the ground reality that the government is not making efforts in doing contact tracing properly so there is no point in keeping such an app.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Interesting to note that when when this poll begin, yes had a clear majority. But after close to 600 votes, the no count has sneaked ahead. Good to see people making the effort to try and the understand pitfalls of open surveillance.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by etrast75

The madhya pradesh govt has exposed the private details of every single person who has been quarantined including name, their mobile phone, OS version, their current coordinates and the office location through their government portal.
Please tell me how this would have been possible without installing the "arogya setu" app.

search for geoportal.mp.gov.in in google. The cherry on top is that the page is not even SSL secured. (not that it matters, but it goes to show how much the govt knows about security and privacy)
Still want to argue that the govt has no other motive and will not misuse your data from the app?

Update:

On reading more, it looks like MP govt has another app called sathrak which covid-19 cases are foced to download into their phones. But the concerns are the same. Here is a govt entity forcing an app on to people with no legal backing and then exposing their data to the whole wide world without their express consent.

Here is the tweet about this. They are broadcasting location of all infected along with where they work.

https://twitter.com/fs0c131y/status/1259441919299588097

So using such apps can actually put you in risk of eviction from your home, mob violence etc., if you live in one of the cities where infected people are prone to attacks. Today Maharashtra has done this using their own app. But tomorrow any other state govt can also do this.

Secondly, all a contact tracing app needs to do is let users know if they have been exposed to somebody with covid. Where they live, and where they work does not matter. Unless I am missing something or some technology allows the govt to track movement of any citizen individually helps with better controlling the spread.
If the govt had said that through this app they will test all people who came in contact with covid positive persons a test, it would still make some sense, but they are not doing that. To know where covid is growing, they only need numbers, not the entire movement profile of every citizen. They could have made an app which did contact tracing just like regular contact tracing apps, but they chose to go into full surveillance mode.

[JithinR]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Here is the tweet about this. They are broadcasting location of all infected along with where they work.

https://twitter.com/fs0c131y/status/1259441919299588097

So using such apps can actually put you in risk of eviction from your home, mob violence etc., if you live in one of the cities where infected people are prone to attacks. Today Maharashtra has done this using their own app. But tomorrow any other state govt can also do this.

Damn, this is really the stuff of nightmares. Look at how easy it is to just get the info from their site (thankfully the guy who posted this on twitter redacted the PII).

The issue though is that most Indians simply don't care about privacy and security. Not untill someone uses all this in a scam and then one of those effected morons starts a WhatsApp forward. Then all the WhatsApp university graduates in our country will suddenly start talking about data privacy as if they suddenly discovered it (just like our dear Trump who once said 'No one knew Healthcare was so complex, no one...').

Besides, we can see even educated people posting stuff like your phone already knows everything about you without realising the basic difference between a government mass surveillance program (with a healthy dose of incompetence thrown in) and some app trying to scrape of anonymous data.

[adi_petrolhead]

I am in an essential business being an export oriented unit. I have about 20 workers and most of my original workers have migrated back to Rajasthan on day 1 of lockdown 1.0. I have had to resort to local labour.

So today I got a call from the district industrial commissioner's office asking about the app. I straight away declined that neither have I downloaded nor do I intend to download the app on my iPhone. I cited reasons that app compatibility is not good for iPhones. The tone was not pleasant and he asked me to make sure the app is installed on all other workers and staff using Androids and I should send them a list of people who have downloaded the app successfully. This was very frustrating as firstly I am busy managing my unit with unskilled labour sourced locally and relying on temporary staff to continue operations. they have not allowed my people to come back from Rajasthan till now even after we have approached multiple offices in their district in Rajasthan. And they want me to forcefully install an app that does nothing to help me or people around me. We are in an orange zone and barely 5 active cases in my district. I see this as harassment rather than support from the government.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead

I have about 20 workers and most of my original workers have migrated back to Rajasthan on day 1 of lockdown 1.0. I have had to resort to local labour.
.
.
.
And they want me to forcefully install an app that does nothing to help me or people around me. We are in an orange zone and barely 5 active cases in my district. I see this as harassment rather than support from the government.

Identical situation. Most of my labour left for their villages the very night lockdown 1.0 was announced. Need skilled labour, can’t just hire anyone. Also, local labour just doesn’t want to work. But that’s a different story for another time.

Totally agree, small businessmen like us have received zero support, only additional requirements and complications. I’ve not downloaded the app, I don’t intend to and I am not going to compel anyone to do so. With cash flows anyway completely stalled, I’ve decided it’s better to sit at home with my baby daughter than to risk restarting work amid such uncertainties.

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead

I am in an essential business being an export oriented unit. I have about 20 workers and most of my original workers have migrated back to Rajasthan on day 1 of lockdown 1.0. I have had to resort to local labour.

So today I got a call from the district industrial commissioner's office asking about the app. I straight away declined that neither have I downloaded nor do I intend to download the app on my iPhone. I cited reasons that app compatibility is not good for iPhones. The tone was not pleasant and he asked me to make sure the app is installed on all other workers and staff using Androids and I should send them a list of people who have downloaded the app successfully. This was very frustrating as firstly I am busy managing my unit with unskilled labour sourced locally and relying on temporary staff to continue operations. they have not allowed my people to come back from Rajasthan till now even after we have approached multiple offices in their district in Rajasthan. And they want me to forcefully install an app that does nothing to help me or people around me. We are in an orange zone and barely 5 active cases in my district. I see this as harassment rather than support from the government.

Thanks for this. I hope more of your kind ( small businessmen ) bring across the difficulties you face due to these actions by the govt. Why does the commissioner's office even think many of the unskilled daily laborers should have fancy smartphones( iphones?) in the first place?

[adi_petrolhead]

Nowadays even a vegetable vendor has an android phone, so the assumption that everyone should have at least a basic android phone is not surprising. But the labour I have is changing everyday. They can't expect me to leave my work aside and check (go near them and take their phones in my hand) if they have the app installed or not. I am not classifying any type of labour, we have sanitisation stations installed, PPE is issued at the gate itself, and temperatures taken, but me being the Karta Dharta in this current scenario can't take risk to get close to people so much. And I have aged parents at home too. I as such never keep any govt apps on my phone. And the ones which request geo-location, are may be one or two like Uber, Ola. That too only while using the app, and not full-time. On checking with my people I observed that many of them already had the app installed even on their basic android handsets. It just shows that people trust the govt blindly. Any app that does not store sensitive information on your device locally, shouldn't be used in my opinion.

[Mik]

I have not installed it and will resist installing it unless life becomes difficult. Such heavy handed compliance over what is essentially a half baked thought that people will voluntarily disclose they have corona.
I am wary of installing any government app and have zero trust on this government. (yep. I trust google more and I have choice. Has been spiritedly debated all over the thread)
Won't be surprised if in times to come this becomes another vehicle to tom-tom the governments 'achievements'.
In the same vein as with other small businessmen, I run a company with 150+ people and am absolutely stretched and am taking heart-breaking decisions. The government owes us a significant amount of money in form of refunds (enough to foot the salary bill for a month). No amount of followups is helping. We can't even raise hell as it might displease the powers that be and they will unnecessarily harass us.

[gthang]

Originally Posted by Mik

I have not installed it and will resist installing it unless life becomes difficult. Such heavy handed compliance over what is essentially a half baked thought that people will voluntarily disclose they have corona.

Without wanting to get into any of the pro/con argument, just wanted to clear one point.
If someone tests positive, wouldn't the testing center and myriad of other departments take over, and updating the app won't be a voluntary choice any more?

Cheers

[Kumar R]

Very little about this "health" app inspires confidence. Furthermore I believe the way it is being promoted and forced onto people is dangerous and irresponsible.

- Not being an open-source app, it is not available to withstand scrutiny of technology experts (from a malware / privacy perspective). At the same time there is no certification by a specialist third party (such as Verisign does for digital certificates);

- The government of India has legally disowned all liability (see the terms of the app);

- The government is yet to publish complete information as to what the app tracks and where the information is stored, who has access to the info and how the government will use it - in short beyond some rhetorical and abstract statements given to the media there is no commitment or documentation on how it will work.

Let's not forget that the government of India's own published policy advocates open source software for governance.

https://www.digitalindia.gov.in/cont...-digital-india

Then why this secrecy? A responsible government has a duty to share all this information with its constituents.

Considering how central our smartphones are to our lives these are all important and relevant questions. I find it surprising that people who are otherwise discerning and ask questions at relatively small forums (such a housing society meeting) for small-value decisions are content to take for granted a government recommendation to install an app that has access to their phone data, location, potentially passwords and what-not in the complete absence of any exhaustive information or guidance.

[MegaWhat]

https://indianexpress.com/article/in...ishna-6405535/

"Under what law do you mandate it on anyone? So far it is not backed by any law,” the former judge told The Indian Express"

Justice Srikrishna said that the guidelines cannot be considered as having sufficient legal backing to make the use of Aarogya Setu mandatory. “These pieces of legislation — both the National Disaster Management Act and Epidemic Diseases Act — are for a specific reason. The national executive committee in my view is not a statutory body,” he said.

Coming from a former supreme court judge, especially someone who headed the government's committee on data protection , I hope this holds some weightage in the administration.

[AZT]

Aarogya Setu’s data can be shared with myriad government units, say new protocol

While the government has repeatedly said that the app doesn’t put user data at risk, the new protocols may raise more concerns
According to the document, response data includes demographic data, contact data, self assessment data and location data of the app’s users

..

Particularly, under the “principles of sharing of response data", the document states that response data “containing personal data" may be shared with the Ministry of Health and Family Welfare, Government of India, Departments of Health of the State/Union Territory Governments/ local governments, National Disaster Management Authority (NDMA), State Disaster Management Authority (SDMA), “such 3 other Ministries and Departments of the Government of India and State Governments and other public health institutions of the Government of India...

Read More: https://www.livemint.com/technology/...218334739.html

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

We are equally divided in our opinion

When this thread started, I recall that there was a clear lead by those who installed, or wanted to install this App, being the trusting, well meaning citizens that they all are.
Gradually, as some contrarian views started flowing in, the general perception about this app seems to have shifted.
Of course it doesn't mean that those voting against installing this App aren't good citizens or not willing to do their duty, but that they are concerned with the weak fundamentals behind contact tracing, their devices' Security, for their Privacy, and to resist furtive attempts to subvert this pandemic and use contact tracing as an excuse for strengthening an increasingly police state.

I wonder if this poll were to be done again NOW, how would the split look like!

[JojyKerala]

All migrants taking trains home should compulsorily install the Aarogya Setu app. Not sure what happens if they don't own smartphones? Here are excerpts from the article.

The Indian Railways, which had on Monday "advised" the passengers availing the special trains that started operating on Tuesday to install the government's Aarogya Setu mobile application, has now made it "mandatory" to do so.

While the guidelines issued by the railways for the 15 pairs of special trains running between Delhi and major cities of the country did not say installing the mobile app was mandatory, a late night (12:24 am) tweet by the railway ministry made it compulsory.

Sources said it was made mandatory after a Union ministry of home affairs missive, following Prime Minister Narendra Modi's meeting with chief ministers.

Passengers, who do not have the app installed on their mobile phones, might be asked to do so after their arrival at the station, they added.

However, there is no clarity yet on if and how the app will be enforced, officials said, as the Supreme Court, in a directive, has said making it mandatory is illegal.

Link to the article