[chinkara]

Originally Posted by warrioraks

But I end up losing control (of my data) to the Chinese which makes me uncomfortable. So even though buying Xiaomi added more value to India than the humble Usha fan, my preference would still be the latter.

I agree - and on that, there is a separate debate to be had on regulations and data security.
I prefer not having any sensitive info on my phone to the extent possible - but now with companies pushing for mobile connectivity is is becoming increasingly difficult.
Till last year I managed to avoid using my mobile for mails - except 1 account which I normally use for non-sensitive stuff.

[HTC]

Originally Posted by itsmb

I am not a moderator but I noticed many mistakes in you write up, I request you to please take my reply in a positive way. Let me correct the factual one. We have had two wars with China, 1962 and 1967. In 62 we lost but we had a comforting win in 67. In 1962 we lost Aksai Chin, not Siachin; Siachin is in our control.

No sir, would not take it offensive at all. Infact, thanks for correcting. Me and my brother were discussing the same and he mentioned 1965 and it got struck like glue in my mind.

Moderators,
Sorry for couple of typos and non formatting in my original post. Was thumb typing on mobile and hence couldn't verify. Wil be careful next time.

[wheelguy]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

I find it hard to tag a nation to any of these products being churned out of a global supply chain. Xiaomi may take a Qualcomm processor (hw designed in US, Hyderabad and Bangalore), most sw from CA - Google, skins, UI and customization from Xiaomi sw teams in India. All of the chips fab'ed in China, and most phones manufactured/ assembled in India and china. Apologize for broad generalization, but hopefully you get the gist of my post.
When Xiaomi is profitable selling stuff to Indians, the profits are going to China and US. Indians would have scored some labor in this process. The big winners here in terms of net profit - Google are in US and not being talked about.

It's about the data and information, to make strategic decisions.

Let's consider the above example, many Indians were using Xiaomi phone, Chinese government had an easy access to Xiaomi and its database, they can use that rich information to devise strategies to destroy/attack our nation various ways. They might not have access to personal information of the Xiaomi users but they can still look into various usage patterns of the crores of Xiaomi users in India to devise strategies. Like, they can track and approximate sleep patterns of crores of users based on their screen times/logs, and they can time their attack based on this information also.

Chinese government cannot as easily access such databases of users of an iPhone, Nokia, Samsung etc as they can in case of Xiaomi. Chinese companies cannot say no to their government and stop it from accessing the information.

It's about plugging those privacy and information vulnerability gaps.

Information is a very powerful tool, by avoiding Chinese products especially mobiles we can disable it from accessing that information.

China is selectively and strategically lending to nations surrounding India, when those nations fail to service those huge loans, China is indirectly taking control of them.

China lent around 1.5 billion USD to Sri Lanka to build a deep water port on Maritime Silk Road. By 2017, Sri-Lanka couldn't pay back the loan, so instead they gave China control over the port as a part of 99 year lease agreement. China had similar 40 year lease agreement with Pakistan, and is pushing Myanmar to agree for a similar lease contract. See how it formed an enclosure around India. Now, if ever a war situation emerges, China easily converts these places into its military base.

Source

[padmrajravi]

The profits of all chinese companies are surely going to their chinese shareholders. Unless a company is listed in India, it is safe to assume that a fair share of profits will go to the origin country's shareholders. The value we get is only the money company spends in salaries and taxes.

Consider the Tata group or Mahindra group, the profits goes to Indian shareholders and a part of their profits gets spent in India itself since India is a homebase. I understand FDI means shares of local companies will be owned by foreign investments, but in most cases that is not a majority investment. In spite of all the arguments with global companies, it is fairly straight forward to notice that a large part of benefit from a company's success is always enjoyed by the home country.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by warrioraks

Amid rising anti-China mood, local app Mitron eats into TikTok's India market in eye-popping manner

Our neighbours get a taste of their own medicine, someone created a copy of their app and took away their business

https://m.economictimes.com/tech/sof...w/76059316.cms

It's made in Pakistan, just FYI.

Originally Posted by wheelguy

It's about the data and information, to make strategic decisions....

It's about plugging those privacy and information vulnerability gaps.

Information is a very powerful tool, by avoiding Chinese products especially mobiles we can disable it from accessing that information.

Every Chinese investor in Indian consumer app companies and unicorns has access to all KYC data. These investors are themselves Chinese unicorns, backed or funded by the Chinese govt or its banks. So if you've ever stayed at an Oyo, booked an Ola, ordered from Zomato or Swiggy or BigBasket, your data is being tracked by them. And of course, if you've used PayTM...

[wheelguy]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Every Chinese investor in Indian consumer app companies and unicorns has access to all KYC data. These investors are themselves Chinese unicorns, backed or funded by the Chinese govt or its banks. So if you've ever stayed at an Oyo, booked an Ola, ordered from Zomato or Swiggy or BigBasket, your data is being tracked by them. And of course, if you've used PayTM...

Yes, sadly their roots have gone very deep, and that should be stopped wherever possible, because their intentions aren't good.

Oyo, Ola, Zomato, Swiggy, and BigBasket had Chinese investors with them, but those Chinese investors are not the top investors in them, the top investors in them were Softbank, Sequoia Capital, and Tiger Global etc which were not Chinese, so these Chinese investors cannot have unrestricted(without the knowledge of other investors) access as in case of Xiaomi.

It is only in PayTM that Alibaba is the major investor with 42%(as per Wikipedia) ownership.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by wheelguy

Yes, sadly their roots have gone very deep, and that should be stopped wherever possible, because their intentions aren't good.

Oyo, Ola, Zomato, Swiggy, and BigBasket had Chinese investors with them, but those Chinese investors are not the top investors in them, the top investors in them were Softbank, Sequoia Capital, and Tiger Global etc which were not Chinese, so these Chinese investors cannot have unrestricted(without the knowledge of other investors) access as in case of Xiaomi.

It is only in PayTM that Alibaba is the major investor with 42%(as per Wikipedia) ownership.

Looking at the boards of the investors you mention, as well as their cross-pollination arrangements with their portfolio companies, will throw some light on what I'm talking about.

Why do you think I specified PayTM with a ? I have some understanding of their policies.

[warrioraks]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

It's made in Pakistan, just FYI.

So that makes it the second thing that Pakistan has exported to India

[Nissan1180]

I really wish that there was some push to manufacture at least a fraction of the consumer electronics sold in India to be made here. Right now, even electric kettles, which were made in India earlier, are being imported from China. The sad thing is that customers will pay 500 for a kettle that lasts a year, instead of the 1000 that you'd pay a company to make a high quality SS kettle that lasts a decade. Online platforms that thrive on discounts have worsened this.

I have wasted a lot of money on Chinese gadgets from the best brands (Huawei, Haier etc) and these things do not last! A car purifier from Haier lasted barely 1 year before its top broke off. This was when it was rarely touched and almost always kept in a shaded area. Even the best Chinese phones don't last beyond 1.5 years without a bulged battery or malfunctioning GPS or something else. An Asus device (Taiwanese) easily lasts over 3 years.

After these experiences, I vowed never to touch a China brand unless it was the only option. You pay much more in the long run because of the shoddy quality. A friend had a Xiaomi phone, and it was diagnosed with a very high radiation (SAR) value. It was sold at less than 30% of the price within a year because it presented a health risk, and this was known by all resellers in the market. Ironically, the government agencies in India never issued a ban or recall for this product, though it was banned elsewhere in the world.

The India Government could encourage companies like Asus, Dell, HP etc to make their devices in India, and parallelly help the Indian smartphone brands like Micromax establish a firm footing. I had a better experience with Micromax than with Xiaomi!

It doesn't matter if your device is made in China. Foxconn gets less than half of what you pay for an iphone. The rest of the value is added by Apple across the world. For other products, the ratio is even more skewed.

At a personal level, avoid Chinese brands for stuff like shoes, clothes at least. Check the label. Jobs for the textile and leather industry can be saved. It is not only about nationalism and emotion. It is being pragmatic and buying what gets you the best value for money.

[wheelguy]

Originally Posted by Nissan1180

I really wish that there was some push to manufacture at least a fraction of the consumer electronics sold in India to be made here.

The India Government could encourage companies like Asus, Dell, HP etc to make their devices in India, and parallelly help the Indian smartphone brands like Micromax establish a firm footing. I had a better experience with Micromax than with Xiaomi!

More than the push for local manufacturing, I wish there was a push for local design & development.

Chinese companies are far more capable and advanced than most of our companies, especially in tech industry. You might have a better experience with Micromax, but the problem is Micromax is nowhere as capable as Xiaomi which started 10 years after Micromax was founded. In fact none of the Indian smartphone companies like Lava, Xolo, Intex, Micromax, Karbonn, and Celkon etc were nowhere as capable as Chinese smartphone companies like RealMe, OnePlus, Xiaomi, Oppo, Huawei, and Meizu etc. The real problem is Indian companies pay less or near zero attention to technology development and pay more attention to trading & business development, they are failing to understand the massive leverages and advantages that technologies can provide. It's okay to start a company by lending technologies from foreign companies, but later on they should do their own R&D and catch-up and move ahead of others if possible.

A classic example is Maruti Udyog Limited(Maruti Suzuki), it started off by lending technology from Suzuki Japan as they(Maruti) lack knowledge of car making and it cannot be developed overnight, but since the beginning(1981) till date Maruti never attempted to develop its in-house capabilities. They were good at business and that's it, even today they cannot stand on their own without a technology partner.

TVS had partnership with Suzuki, and Bajaj with Kawasaki, but these companies gradually developed their capabilities and came out of their partnerships. Hero also had a partnership with Honda, but it never tried develop its own capabilities, but thanks to Honda choosing to come out of the partnership, Hero was forced to do its own R&D, otherwise Hero Honda could have become another Maruti Suzuki.

Originally Posted by Nissan1180

The sad thing is that customers will pay 500 for a kettle that lasts a year, instead of the 1000 that you'd pay a company to make a high quality SS kettle that lasts a decade.

Customers cannot be blamed, be it 500 or 1000 rupees, at any given price point Chinese companies can offer better quality products than most of its counterparts. Chinese companies used to make poor quality products in the past, but now they have come a long way in terms of quality & capability. Actually it is our companies which are lagging a lot!

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by digitalnirvana

Sonam Wangchuk, someone who I admire for his stance on a variety of topics, has issued a call to replace Chinese products in our lives - software in a week and hardware in a year.

https://Youtu.be/7Zt4fB1lwIo

More is this video. He comes from Ladakh which is directly at risk by the current confrontations.

What does the BHPian say?

So this thread is about the apparent attempt to lure American companies to shift their production from China to India. While the likelihood is close to nil, at least the intent isn't bad after all.

Meanwhile, people got carried away in Phase-2 of BS rhetoric and want to boycott Chinese made products and services. This will fizzle out after Phase-3 of BS rhetoric.

Hypothetical question:
What will happen to the 1000 companies (and the associated Indians in the entire supply chain) that move their production to India IF the Americans boycott Made in India products and services? After all, others can be as patriotic as you are.

[sachinayak]

It may be a standard Whatsapp forward, but the truth hiding behind the sarcasm is really hurting.

[volkman10]

Firms shifting from China to Vietnam .

A study by Japanese financial group Nomura, the destination for these companies remains in the East and South-East Asia.

Found that 56 companies moved its bases from China in 2018-19, Vietnam got 26 of them. Taiwan got 11 and Thailand eight. Only three companies came to India.

Vietnam, incidentally, has emerged as a model country in the fight against coronavirus pandemic. The country reported only 327 Covid-19 cases with no deaths.

To make itself a more attractive destination, Vietnam on Monday ratified its trade deal with the European Union. This translates into removal of 85 per cent tariff by the EU on exports from goods manufactured in Vietnam, and phased removal of imports from European countries.

Link

[srishiva]

Should India move away from democracy to grow economically

Its difficult to set right the systemic deficiencies that are now formally part of it. There is no accountability and people will not change since its not necessary in the current system.

For me, atleast I will as much as possible buy non-chinese products Haven't even bought a Hyundai yet so I wont be buying a Chinese car for a long time.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by srishiva

Should India move away from democracy to grow economically

Its difficult to set right the systemic deficiencies that are now formally part of it. There is no accountability and people will not change since its not necessary in the current system.

I can understand the frustrations of a democracy where the wheels of change grind slowly and things change when they do at a walking pace rather than a sprint. However if we look back over the last 40 years, which isn't a long time in the journey of a large nation, we see the GDP having grown from USD 186 mm in 1980 {in 1980 dollars} to ~USD 2800 million in 2019 {in 2019 dollars}. Even after adjusting for $ inflation of 3.35X over this period we account for four and a half times real growth. That's not bad for a diverse nation that managed it while remaining democratic. There is a lot that is still to be done especially where building institutions go, building national character, reforming the Govt, building our own civic sense, education, health and what have you. But so long as we stay democratic we can be sure we will keep inching in the right direction.

Many in the world are deeply impressed by China's super rapid economic growth over the last roughly 38 years. No doubt it is impressive. But there is a lot more to building a nation than just economic growth. And if China fails to focus on building its institutions the next 38 years could look very different. The carefully balanced power & decision structure the Communist Party had created that served so well under all their Premiers from Deng Xio Ping to Hu Jintao has almost been completely upturned by Xi Ping. Instead a cult of personality has been imposed on that nation; a cult with expansionist ambitions; a cult that is undoing what was done. Think Tojo, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Saddam etc. All the while the Indian democratic tortoise plods on two steps forward one step back.