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Old 5th June 2020, 01:54   #61
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Default Re: Pregnant elephant dies after eating cracker-stuffed pineapple

Looks like it is time to rename the title again. As per the latest reports, the forest surgeon who autopsied the elephant said that there was no traces of pineapple found within elephant. He doesn't even know how this story came up in the first place

https://www.mathrubhumi.com/news/ker...cker-1.4805727
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Old 5th June 2020, 09:20   #62
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Default Re: Pregnant elephant dies after eating cracker-stuffed pineapple

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Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
1) In goa, where you say they've declared boars as vermin, do you have farmers killing them with explosives hidden in fruit?
I don't know, I am not familiar with Goan practices.

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Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
2) If its illegal to kill them in Kerala, how can you justify it, especially since you're a moderator?
Did I justify it? Stating reality is justifying? Please don't twist my words. I merely stated reality and asked a rhetorical question about what is one supposed to do when their harvest destroyed on a regular basis. I am looking for answers, just like you. I have now become a city based person, unlike my teens. So I have lost touch with the realities of everyday life near forests. I don't have solutions that may work. I have friends and family who run estates and farm near forests and deal with wildlife on a daily basis, and tell me their issues. But I can't claim that as my experience and suggest solutions.

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Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
If an animal destroys your work product on a daily product, as per your statement, its perfectly fine to break the laws of the land and protect your work product, right?
That's your solution? Sorry, I don't agree. (See, twisting words is easy, so let's not go there)

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One shouldn't even think of informing the forest dept, which is the correct process
They do that all the time, and the forest department fellows shrug and do nothing if the animal is no more on the farm/estate.

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Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
just lace fruit with explosives and if you kill the wrong animal or person, then just chalk it up to collateral damage?
Sadly, that is the reality. Doesn't mean I support it. Just because I have access to Internet and google, I don't think I can come up a solution. It will take wildlife experts with deep understanding of man-animal conflicts to work with the forest department and farmers, and come up with workable solutions. Clueless guy like me have really no business giving them solutions and passing judgment.
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Old 5th June 2020, 09:49   #63
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Default Re: Pregnant elephant dies after eating cracker-stuffed pineapple

Some years back there was a protest walk to Mumbai. Similar situation where forest land which has been occupied (illegally?/legally ?) by farmers who want the title registered in their names. Am sure forest were destroyed, wildlife pathways were stopped / acquired, if done illegally. When these illegal things were happening zero animals protested & none of the political party raised any questions in parliament.



"The other demands include implementation of recommendations of the Swaminathan commission, and transfer of the forest land to those farmers who are cultivating on it."


https://m.timesofindia.com/city/mumb...w/68090701.cms
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Old 5th June 2020, 10:23   #64
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Default Re: Pregnant elephant dies after eating cracker-stuffed pineapple

Just citing an example -

In North Bihar nowadays & particularly at my place which is the maize hub, all farmers use state highways & local roads to dry out their maize & at night, pile it up and horror of horrors, leave it with barricades.

Is it an offence, it sure is. At places, there were FIR's etc but if cops seize crops what would they do with it & besides politicians & social workers too request the police not to take any action. No social out cry because it involves farmers & its a (max) 2 month affair, people grin & bear it.

Most people staying in cities just would never understand the plight & difficulties a farmer goes through. We just can not think that way. So many of the farmers commit suicide, but no one bats an eye lid.
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Old 5th June 2020, 10:27   #65
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Default Re: Pregnant elephant dies after eating cracker-stuffed pineapple

Farmlands are becoming apartment complexes. Forests are becoming farmlands.Still some people feel it is OK to kill wild animals in their own natural habitat. We are not talking about killing or trapping boars or other animals in human habitats. These are buffer zones where big farmlands and estates have come up. The forest land is now only in paper or records. Not even 10km of continuous forest area or wildlife corridors, with out human persistence is not there in Kerala now. So what are these animals supposed to do?
Quote:
Looks like it is time to rename the title again. As per the latest reports, the forest surgeon who autopsied the elephant said that there was no traces of pineapple found within elephant. He doesn't even know how this story came up in the first place
How does that matter? The postmortem clearly indicates the mouth was exploded and the animal had not eaten for more than 2 weeks. The elephant can't assemble explosives right? Sepsis had spread and the only thing it could do was go and stand in water to alleviate some pain. What a painful way to die..!!
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Old 5th June 2020, 10:50   #66
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Default Re: Pregnant elephant dies after eating cracker-stuffed pineapple

This is one story which has saddened me the most. Which human being in a positive frame of mind do such a ghastly act.
Whole humanity has been shamed by this barbaric act.

I hope the accused can be caught and justice prevails.
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Old 5th June 2020, 11:21   #67
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Default Re: Pregnant elephant dies after eating cracker-stuffed pineapple

We have had some encounters with wild boars but not too many (thankfully),

While Nilgai just eat the crop, boars are nuclear. They actually dig up the ground and create deep pits.

After one attack we had to re-till over an acre of land. Everything was destroyed. The entire crop of produce (potatoes and some other vegetables). They are a farm predator of no parallel.
And its not just India. Feral Pig removal is a lucrative industry in the USA.

Now we were not dependent for livelihood for our farm, but many others are.
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Old 5th June 2020, 11:25   #68
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Default Re: Pregnant elephant dies after eating cracker-stuffed pineapple

Extremely tragic what happened. What is even more appalling is people coming in hordes trying to in someway justify/ defend what happened and trying to send a message that the outrage is misplaced or uncalled for given the area in which it happened. But it is good that such practices are coming to light. I am pretty sure we have more such practices being followed across India, it is just that the death of a Jumbo brought media attention to this.

What is even more shocking is supposedly educated people saying - ohhh..it was meant for the wild boar but the elephant ate it. As if the other animals including elephants are aware of which pineapple is meant for the boar and which is for them, or which is laden with explosives and which is meant for eating. Or if this practice of killing animals with explosive laden food is ok.

If wild boars are pests and have an unregulated population, why not the authorities take actions to fix the problem, if it is left to locals to "take care of them" such incidents are bound to happen. Given the strict gun laws and the fact that hunting them is illegal, it becomes the responsibility of the local authorities to fix this problem. And if this is a land mafia in play or the vote bank locals who are encroaching the forest land, then there is no wonder such conflicts exists right under the nose of the authorities.

We often see in news every year even in the areas near national parks in the north too, people regularly kill Tigers, leopards by setting up a poison laced goat/ sheep carcass near forests. So this is not something unique that has happened. But this time the animal being a pregnant Jumbo caught media attention.

Also, I am pretty sure the elephant must have been alive a good few days before dying. Why did the locals not inform the authorities and if they did why was no action taken before the tragedy. Quite sure there is much more to it then what is being reported in the media.

Last edited by ishan12 : 5th June 2020 at 11:32.
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Old 5th June 2020, 11:39   #69
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Default Re: Pregnant elephant dies after eating cracker-stuffed pineapple

I understand that farmers find it difficult to fend against wild boars but pineapples filled with crackers isn't the solution especially when the property itself is very close to the wild.

The main aim of these hate-filled pineapples is to scare boars away. Unlike elephants, the boars don't put the entire fruit in its mouth at one go. The crackers go off as soon as force is applied or when the boars take a bite of the pineapple - they run off never to come to the property again. In cases where the boar managed to take a large bite, it receives injuries that haunt them for life.

In the case of this poor elephant and her unborn child, she placed the entire fruit in her mouth (like most elephants do). I want this practice abolished not just in Kerala but across India.

RIP Vinayaki

Quote:
One person has been arrested in the case relating to the death of a pregnant wild elephant in Kerala, the state forest department said on Friday.

"KFD has zeroed in on the culprits and recorded the first arrest in the wild elephant death case", the department said in a tweet.

Last edited by JojyKerala : 5th June 2020 at 11:51.
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Old 5th June 2020, 11:57   #70
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Default Re: Pregnant elephant dies after eating cracker-stuffed pineapple

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Originally Posted by anb View Post
Looks like it is time to rename the title again. As per the latest reports, the forest surgeon who autopsied the elephant said that there was no traces of pineapple found within elephant. He doesn't even know how this story came up in the first place

https://www.mathrubhumi.com/news/ker...cker-1.4805727
Easy, they picked up Malappuram and went with it, too bad they got that wrong.

Elephants would be a lot better if their habitats aren't converted into teak plantations. They have nothing to eat in the forest and they go to the farms. They will reach the towns if the farmers were kicked out of former forests. How far back do you think we should go? Would those feeling the elephant's pain be ready to be on the street if their apartment is going to be declared former farmland by the administration on a technicality?

The Kruger national Park conducts an elephant cull, that's because the land can't sustain the population. Trophy hunting pays for big preservation programs in Africa and thanks to ignorant activists, bans on hunting have led to poaching undoing all the previous efforts.

Last edited by moralfibre : 5th June 2020 at 12:51. Reason: Removing irrelevant bits.
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Old 5th June 2020, 12:00   #71
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Default Re: Pregnant elephant dies after eating cracker-stuffed pineapple

Looks like they have made the first arrest in this case.

Let's hope that it is taken to a logical conclusion and there is focus (pan India) on how to avoid animal- human conflict as this would not unfortunately be the last of these.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/1-ar...nister-2241090
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Old 5th June 2020, 12:03   #72
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Default Re: Pregnant elephant dies after eating cracker-stuffed pineapple

I know at least two cases first-hand where human-wildlife conflict didn't happen until the 90s. I lived in those areas without ever seeing a single wildlife entering the estate or farm. Now it has become a routine to see wildlife in the estate/farm. What happened? The wildlife migrated from somewhere because their habitat was disturbed.

What are farmer/planters supposed to do?

To city dwelling highly educated wildlife lovers, the answer is clear. The farmer/planters must abandon their farm/estates to move somewhere else or just keep absorbing the losses with a smile. I generally like simple solutions, but this one I am not sure.
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Old 5th June 2020, 12:06   #73
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Default Re: Pregnant elephant dies after eating cracker-stuffed pineapple

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
Farmlands are becoming apartment complexes. Forests are becoming farmlands.Still some people feel it is OK to kill wild animals in their own natural habitat. We are not talking about killing or trapping boars or other animals in human habitats. These are buffer zones where big farmlands and estates have come up. The forest land is now only in paper or records. Not even 10km of continuous forest area or wildlife corridors, with out human persistence is not there in Kerala now. So what are these animals supposed to do?
I don't know about Kerala in particular but in other states there are vast majority of farmland that are completely legal, no encroachment of forest lands. There are good number of examples where wild animals come out of natural habitat not because of encroachment but because of poaching , weather conditions(Famine/excessive rain). I would go by law books, and in this case Elephant killed by accident or by intention, should be punished as per law.
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Old 5th June 2020, 12:20   #74
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Default Re: Pregnant elephant dies after eating cracker-stuffed pineapple

Kerala and it's issues with haphazard urbanization. Building a farmhouse in Western ghats is easy, living peacefully is another story.

Another article from BBC.

The man who kills stray dogs in India's Kerala

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-37687977

Free-ranging dog issue of Kerala, please note the term social worker on Wikipedia being used for- 'social worker from Cochin called Jose Maveli was arrested for killing street dogs in large number.'

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free...%20before%20it.

Last edited by ritz3645 : 5th June 2020 at 12:23. Reason: Additional info on social worker
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Old 5th June 2020, 12:33   #75
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Default Re: Pregnant elephant dies after eating cracker-stuffed pineapple

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Originally Posted by ishan12 View Post
Care to explain more? And what people are being referred to here?
Here's the link.
https://indianexpress.com/article/in...gotry-6442768/

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Originally Posted by PrideRed View Post
I don't know about Kerala in particular but in other states there are vast majority of farmland that are completely legal, no encroachment of forest lands. There are good number of examples where wild animals come out of natural habitat not because of encroachment but because of poaching , weather conditions(Famine/excessive rain). I would go by law books, and in this case Elephant killed by accident or by intention, should be punished as per law.
Legal is just a technicality, your farmland can be declared forest land or some other classification that means you can literally do nothing with it, even though its in your possession. If a rare species of plant is found there or if a wild animal strays in, that's good enough reason for reclassification. You lose your livelihood and your inheritance (in most cases).

The law exists to protect the powerful, I guess you're well connected because you trust it. There was a fundraising attempt at a popular mall by an organization that is into wildlife protection based out of Bangalore (yes, deep in the trenches). I didn't allow them to speak to me because I had researched them already, turns out they pay for firearms and ammunition to forest guards. The ones who get shot are tribals who go to collect forest produce, environmentalism is the gift that keeps on giving.
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