[sj_koova]

With my hard earned money, I would rather pay for quality than looking where it is made. If it is made in China and satisfies my quality and cost needs, so be it.

For every imported item, we pay huge import duty. So government is certainly making a lot of money when we use Chinese products. There is an entire retail industry in India depending on Chinese products.
Not using Chinese products is not the real patriotism. And all these boycott is a fake sentiment being created based on well thought-out propaganda is my point of view.

If Indian's manufacturers can beat the quality and cost proposition of Chinese products, I would be happier.

Our entire system lacks ethics and the will to build that level of competency. Hopefully the next generation is ours.

[Avinash_R]

China invested in all the big startups which are well established now... the below image sort of gives a hint how difficult it is to disassociate with China or Chinese companies

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by ashokrajagopal

Myth 1: Significance of Hongkong: Hongkong is not that significant in terms of total trade in China. Its about 3%. In other words, the rest of the world needs Hongkong more than China needs Hongkong. The game China is playing there is to deny Hongkong to ROW than to assimilate it. A whole lot of tariff games goes up in the air if HK is forced to follow China's trade laws.

Yes in terms of GDP it is 3% or probably lesser but you forget the most crucial thing - the flow of money in USD into and out of China. About 33% of all funds of Chinese businesses in USD flows via Hong Kong.

Mainland China is notoriously difficult to take money out of. That is where HK is important. The GDP % was never the correct yardstick to judge HK's importance.

Please read this rather excellent article https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKCN1VP35H

Regarding the geopolitical designs of China (or CCP to be more honest), it is not smash and grab, instead they use a test-the-limits policy. Every where from HK to Taiwan to the South China Sea to issues with ASEAN countries etc, that's the modus operandi. Poke and see if the other party pokes back. If not repeat.

In Ladakh we have seen gradual occupation over several years. When I spoke with my host there in 2013 even then we were told its a regular affair and we are losing our territory in a slow bleeding manner.

Right now we don't have any easy options. We've lost important territory and either we escalate the conflict aka Kargil to reclaim it which could go horribly wrong for us, or cede it and eat humble pie. Our financial, military and infrastructure capabilities are 20 years behind them so the second option seems likely. This is 1962 all over again, and I strongly believe that the ramifications of this issue will be this government's downfall.

In the short term I would like to see harsh punitive tariffs imposed on goods originated in the PRC while staying within the WTO framework. There is a massive trade deficit yes but there's no other way. Its very clear that appeasement has not and will not work.

[Nav-i-gator]

I'm sorry if this reflects as an emotional rant, but all these talks of "my money, my choice", "Replacing China is impossible" etc don't seem right. Try saying that to the family members of those who were brutally killed. If we can't do anything, why let our soldiers die? What if those who laid their lives thought the same? That it is impossible to defend our territory, so we should fall back instead of engaging with their Army? Anyways it's an inhospitable terrain, let them take it.

If our soldiers are getting killed, we need to do something. If we can't, we need to call our troops back as well.

[lazy]

Originally Posted by turbo

I have qualified things into 4 categories

1: Indian company owned things manufactured things in India
2: Indian Company owned things not manufactured in India
3: Foreign company owned things manufactured in India
4: Foreign company owned things manufactured overseas.

My preference order is 1>2>3>4. But only where the alternatives exist.

Nicely put, and I follow the same priority as well.
Though sometimes I wonder if 3 should come before 2; but that path prioritizes short-term benefit to India (local taxes and employees) instead of long-term (Indian brand getting strong)

Anyway, there was a similar thread which I think was closed by Mods.

But the views are pretty much the same - My money, My choice, My freedom, My VFM, Govt should ban imports if they dont want us to buy imported/Chinese stuff.
Why so much "aham"?
(sorry Mods, using Sanskrit word aham, since the English word "ego" is not the correct translation here)

Government cannot ban imports (from specific countries) since we are signatories to WTO, but if the consumers (we) prefer home brands, then they become stronger and that helps India.

Of course, we will have to make some compromises - maybe not so nicely finished product, less features, maybe slightly more expensive, etc.
As private/civilian citizens, can't we do even this much to support our local manufacturing? A country will not become a industrial power on its own, it needs to be supported and nurtured by its own citizens.

But a citizenry that thinks all of nation-building is government's job only; while themselves will stay firm on own views of VFM, convenience, choice, then we as a nation will stay where we are.

cheers
lazy

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by turbo

I have qualified things into 4 categories ...

That is a lucid and rational reckoner to follow. I think it carries more weight than what most other people say as you are, from my memory, a serving member of the Indian armed forces.

I wish there was as much fervour amongst the common people to boycott or similarly disempower Indian politicians who have used caste, region, and religion to bring our economy (and other aspects of our country) to its knees.

[FURY_44]

Originally Posted by Avinash_R

China invested in all the big startups which are well established now... the below image sort of gives a hint how difficult it is to disassociate with China or Chinese companies

Man, if you look closely all these Chinese companies have invested across a wide array of verticals, the amount of data they will or have obtained from these platforms is astronomical.

It's like they are preying on us.

[Miyata]

Geo-political issues are best left for their political solutions. I see no space for emotional indulgence in them. Most of the times the regular folks (like most of us) will never know the facts but all that will trickle down to us would be some form of the 'distorted truth' that benefits a specific narrative or agenda (typically of the ruling party).

If I really feel too patriotic, I would first ensure those in my circle of influence (and reach) receive any timely help and support they may need - family, extended family, friends, acquaintances, paid workers at the apartment complex, paid workers at office, people knocking on the car windows at streets, etc. If most of us honestly did that, quite a few issues would get sorted on their own - Sushant would still be here; the child that was tugging at her dead mother would instead be happily playing; no "migrant" would have gone hungry; etc.

Beyond that, many of us may have neither the resources nor time to do anything about.

Every so often these chants of "China Boycotting" do come up and also fade away equally fast! Instead of worrying about boycotting a nation or products originating from a nation, we would be much better off putting our thoughts and energy into just building things and working for self-reliance. In the absence of sustained constructive activities on our part, the mind wanders off to chants and emotional upheavals.

[ashokrajagopal]

Originally Posted by digitalnirvana

Yes in terms of GDP it is 3% or probably lesser but you forget the most crucial thing - the flow of money in USD into and out of China. About 33% of all funds of Chinese businesses in USD flows via Hong Kong.

Mainland China is notoriously difficult to take money out of. That is where HK is important. The GDP % was never the correct yardstick to judge HK's importance.

Please read this rather excellent article https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKCN1VP35H

Hongkong's USD flow is a problem only as much as China wants to do good business, ie. as per the current order, not after they do annexation of HK with security laws.
To know how it will pan out, just check out what Nomura, JP Morgan, HSBC etc are discussing about the security laws. HSBC, and Stan Chartered already released statements supporting China's security laws to HK last week. JP Morgan and Nomura for example reported considering two alternatives, a) move to Singapore, and b) move to Mainland China -- this was reported by FT last week.

Bottomline: Once China does the security law followed by annexation, it does not matter whether HK controls the USD flow or not. HK holds the USD flow only because as of now, China lets it go like that. With a security law passed, a capital control is a snap away. At that time, any entity in ROW has option of doing business in China's terms or walk away from the business, that's it.

So, a point like "Mainland China is difficult to take money out from, HK is different" is something ROW has to worry, not China.

The only thing businesses can do just before such an annexation is to fly their capital out of HK. Does it make a substantial difference to China? No, the public and private enterprises in China are directly under supervision of PBOC, it does not make a huge difference. Yes, they will end up annexing a digitally wealth stripped HongKong, but its "meh" for China because they are planning on that disruption by design.

[poloman]

China is an expansionist force. It is turning countries after country in the neighboring like Nepal, Sri Lanka and even Bhutan against India. It does not need a gram of grey matter to understand why Nepal is behaving indifferently these days. No need to even talk about Pakistan.

But Indians are happy fiddling with their cheapo Chinese phones and buying Chinese junks and as usual talk about my money my choice my life etc. Some thing similar happened when British came to India. The country is slowly getting encircled politically and economically. The issues at the border is a direct effect of 'Go local' slogan coined by PM and India siding with countries like US and Australia for accountability from China on Covid.

I am astonished by the adulation some people have for a dangerous, treacherous autocratic and expansionist force like China which is in adversity with most of the countries in the world. Have they helped us in any way other than dumping the low cost junk items here.

[navin]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

The difference between China and India is this --- China is seeking to be world number one...ow since 2013 it once again is. Since the past few years, Uncle Xi has dismantled the Communist Party's natural balance of power and internal checks and balances and made himself Supreme Leader...They can bully the Philippines but Vietnam is a far tougher nut to push around. India, Japan, and Australia are in a different league altogether. And the USA is far ahead of us all militarily and resource-wise.

Agreed. Ever since the end of WW2 China has harboured ambitions of becoming an important player on the world stage. China never took the non-aligned stance, as India did. And they had good reason - Japan. If Japan had not gotten involved in the Pacific war they might have occupied (albeit temporarily) much of eastern coastal China. Between 38-41 China, even with Russian help, was unable to thwart Japan's push into China. Granted that China was unprepared militarily in 1937 (as India was in 1962) but they will never make that mistake again.

Chinese ambition is not new. I saw this even among the Chinese I met in the US in the 80s and 90s. They were more cohesive than Indians and firmly believed in their superiority while Indians (probably due to 190 years of British colonial rule) often thought themselves as inferior to the white man (in the 80s). Heck, even today we have a "fair and lovely" fixation. Beyond this complex, Indians and India will never be as cohesive as China and the Chinese. Half the time we are engaged in North vs South, Hindus vs Muslims, X vs Y, debates and animosity.

Xi has only used this superciliousness of the Chinese to further his own personal ambitions. Putin would have done the same if he had a populace as driven and cohesive as the Chinese. Talking of Putin and the Russians, Xi's friendly overtures towards Putin not only serves his own interest (his dictatorship is validated) but also serves to needle the US. Historically Russia and China haven't been the best of friends.

India in comparison is a minor player in the politics between Japan-Russia-China-US. We are in the position today to tilt the balance of power but to play a bigger role we must become far more economically relevant than we are now. China is aware that India's sudden resurgence post-1995 means that if India-Japan along with nations like S. Korea and Vietnam ("Quad Plus") develop some cohesive strategy their dominance in Asia would be threatened. So it serves China to keep India distracted. Remember that China would wish to establish total control in the seas around East Asia as about 50% of trade from Japan, S. Korea and India passes through these waters.

China won't do more than "intrude and withdraw" along the India border. Almost to remind India that "we are right here" (for the same reasons they support Pakistan). A larger invasion with the intention to occupy does not serve their interests. Besides, the cost might not be worth it (on a world stage they will lose all claim to Taiwan and other islands such as the Senkaku in the South and East China Seas if they do). All these skirmises do is distract Indian forces from the western front (which is probably the intention in the first place). China would like to keep India busy while they consolidate their position in East Asia.

Besides, China typically has settled border disputes only after the power differential overwhelmingly favours China leading to significant concessions by the other country. They cant do this with India (our rising GDP and military power makes us too hot to handle). Hence there is no real reason for these incursions other than to keep us occupied.

As far as boycotting Chinese products, I would say as Indians we should favor Indian products if an equivalent Indian product is available. An outright boycott might not even be possible because China today has monopolies in several sectors.

[mvadg]

Only the common people will be affected by this "Boycott Chinese goods" campaign that was started sometime at the end of May 2020 IIRC.
It is naive to believe that we can affect China by not buying Chinese - we will end up paying middlemen across the world to label the same goods as made in [except China] and shipping them full circle around the world to defeat our intentions. A similar strategy was used by MNCs to avoid high GST on sanitary napkins, so you can imagine what else businesses are capable of.

Our made-in-India infrastructure has been completely crushed over the years and I doubt if we even have the brainpower to restart and run those defunct manufacturing units again. Today we are a software superpower (sic) and nothing more.

We will soon become another Cuba if we start boycotting goods in this completely interdependent world we live in. Most such boycott campaigns have the deep state involved with motives that are not immediately apparent to the participants. All these simplistic "Swadeshi" movements don't have any relevance in this era - very naive to assume such tactics work. There is one immediate beneficiary to such campaigns, and that is the present government that seeks to deflect blame for the poor economy and handling of the coronavirus issue, China hating would be a good substitute.

I suggest we do something simpler - boycott our government officials who let the migrants die on the road, may be? Or even push for reforms in our police force by boycotting, I don't know...

[doxinboy]

In international relations, there is nothing called permanent enemy or permanent friends, only permanent national interests. Nixon called Indian's SOB, and hated Indians, the same party gave India 123 Nuclear Agreement. When our great friend Russia came to supply arms to Pakistan, India just moved closer to the US. US analysts and China's strategists agree that India is stronger.

The Quad comprise of India, US, Australia and Japan are closing together and France seem interested. The Shankaku and Okinawa Islands of Japan are threatened by Peopels Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) almost every month. The US has renamed the Pacific Command as Indo-Pacific Command with an interest to involve India in the dynamics against China.

When Sri Lanka tried to suck it up to China, India engineered the defeat of the incumbent political party and installed a party that is favourable to India. When Chinese submarines came to Bay of Bengal, we chased them away.

We also have 8 Poseidon recon aircrafts that are looking for Chinas subs and ships, the US nuclear powered 7th fleet with its aircraft carrier catapult technology is far superior to the ski jump tech of only 2 aircraft carriers of China.

Even if there is a war with China, it is more likely confined to a small theater, if it blows up, our nuclear tipped Agni can hit Beijing. Nuclear deterrence is real.

One thing is real, Xi is a psycho and he doesn't understand the language of dove. We need to signal strength by sending our troops closer to LAC and INS Vikramadithya should involve in naval exercise. I'm sure the government will talk tough and play the game of chicken to bring Beijing to the negotiating table. Jai Hind

[fhdowntheline]

Rather than people participating with their wallets (which they will almost never do), the government must make it uncomfortable for Chinese companies. Every current investment must be scrutinised deeply. All future investments must be expressly put on hold. These are concrete measures. Once done, then the sentimental "boycott" measures can be looked it. Let us also understand that we have "choices" to make because our freedom is defended at the borders. The people on the other side cant even use Google officially.

[AZT]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

1. Throw all Chinese companies out
2. Recall all Indian citizens
3. Shut down the indian embassy in China
4. Evict all Chinese citizens from India
5. Invest fully into Make in India for everything. Recycle the money within the economy.
6. Shut all borders to China
7. Make it a priority to enter the UNSC in the next 12 months on a war footing, pun intended.
8. Repeat all points above for Pakistan.

This is very simplistic statement. WTO and UN legality aside, we will be the biggest losers here. As someone pointed out above, China counts for 15% of our exports, we count for only 3 to 4 % of China's.

China's circle of influence is bigger than ours and if it comes down to it they can push other countries to boycott us (Moot scenario because our govt. realizes this). We already have strained relations with Bangladesh, Nepal and Pakistan and now China so it's not a good look for us globally, no matter what our media shows us. We through Iran under the bus when Trump asked us to so that's a different issue. The OIC countries aren't happy with us either. Even Myanmar is much closer to China than to us. We were supporting the losing candidate in Sri Lanka's last elections. Philippines and Vietnam aside, most SE Asian countries are again closer to China. A lot of money into India flows through Singapore and boycott China won't go down well there. There's a lot more to be said here, but I sincerely hope such random statements (boycott China, throw them out etc) aren't hyped up by the Chinese media which lead to a boycott of Indian companies. Our economy would be the biggest loser. Our diplomacy has gone down the drain, but I wouldn't blame Jaishankar for this. I would say most decisions aren't his.

Let's be real. The UNSC permanent veto seat is a pie in the sky and never going to happen. I don't see 5 countries who wield so much power willingly share it with others (Germany and Japan would be first in contention if this ever happens).