[GTO]

I think it is very important to separate "business" from "politics". A Chinese mobile phone or car company doesn't have any say (or even interest) in the border dispute. Come on, guys! It's like proclaiming "I won't buy a Mercedes Benz because I hate Angela Merkel" and "Let's boycott Instagram because I hate the Republican Party in Washington".

And for those who still want to boycott Chinese goods, you might as well stop driving cars as ALL cars have some Chinese parts (including the new Tata Harrier AT & Mahindra XUV300).

By the way, adding a poll to this thread.

[Artyom]

In my opinion, it's difficult to boycott Chinese products completely but at least we can consciously try wherever is possible.

Even by making such an effort we can in some or the other way contribute and I find this method more practical as against going on with a blanket ban reason being we don't know which product is using how much of the Chinese produce.

I mean something which is very obvious that its made in China should be avoided as a contribution is all I am saying.

[rahulcmoulee]

It is close to impossible to boycott Chinese products. Almost all our electronic devices are either made in China or assembled in India with parts from China and this extends to various sectors. The simple fact is that Chinese products offer way more value for money compared to their non-Chinese counterparts.

In the phone market for example it is much more sensible to pick up a Redmi or Realme phone than a Samsung phone. While most of us here can afford the premium commanded by non-Chinese brands, this is not the case for majority of the poulation.

So while this might seem like a patriotic thing to do, it is simply not economically feasible.

[avingodb]

Originally Posted by GTO

A Chinese mobile phone or car company doesn't have any say (or even interest) in the border dispute

That is surely another extreme side of the opinion of banning everything Chinese immediately.

There is enough evidence of Chinese civilian technology buyouts (or espionage) for their strategic implication. The government may not be able to harness all the money all the time, but it is well-oiled machinery to build national interests in an all-round manner.

I will start by highlighting Huawei and its policies of creating backend data accessible to the govt for example. To add to this, why would China ban agriculture imports from Vietnam overnight if not for strategic purpose, or why would 6000 Chinese tourists refuse to deboard cruise ships in Jeju islands after South Korea installed the THAAD systems there. Or mining and agricultural investments in Africa for that matter.


If anything BHPians should ban about China it should be Aliexpress. It routes its exports via Singapore and marks those as gifts in most cases to avoid paying taxes.

[momsonlydriver]

Originally Posted by GTO

I think it is very important to separate "business" from "politics". A Chinese mobile phone or car company doesn't have any say (or even interest) in the border dispute. Come on, guys! It's like proclaiming "I won't buy a Mercedes Benz because I hate Angela Merkel" and "Let's boycott Instagram because I hate the Republican Party in Washington".

There was even a time when Indians increased the download record of Tiktok (because its Chinese owned) to give a 1 star rating which was later marked as spam. The ratings were then fixed but the downloads helped the app to stay in the top suggestion.

People are out there still waiting for their made in India - Freedom 251

[vharihar]

Originally Posted by speedmiester

...
I have decided to consciously avoided buying chinese products since Feb of this year ( I blame china for the wuhan virus).
...

It is very hard to find electronic products with no chinese components in them, so I will stick to Indian or other global brands and make it a point to avoid Chinese brands
...

Unfortunately thats easier said than done, sorry to burst your bubble . But as of today and the foreseeable future, even when you buy an electronics products that's made in India, be aware that it's got 90% of its components made in China, bcoz an overwhelming majority of those components are simply not made in India. These are highly sophisticated components like baseband processor, accelerometer, proximity sensor, power mgmt chips, motherboard, touch-sensitive glass, etc the whole gamut. Only the assembly is done here, of those few products, to make the final product (phone, refrigerator, whatever).

Same applies to our smart TV, microwave oven, etc. Why, even the WiFi router and TV settop box! Just flip it over and see what its Made in ... line reads, go ahead do it now I suggest

See below article that came 2 days ago on June 16th 2020, very correctly written:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...s-a-mugs-game/

And the expertise to build these sophisticated components at low cost doesn't come overnight. It takes decades of staying in business and gaining expertise. Along with decades of good governance with 0 corruption in everyday lives, consistently. (Where does governance come in, you may wonder. Well, it comes in to keep costs low. When you have a system where the proprietor of a component mfr (or anybody for that matter) has to pay bribe here there everywhere besides already paying high excise duty, hwy tolls, DG expenses bcoz of irregular and costly power etc, how the hell do you expect him to sell at low prices?) That's what I mean by the foreseeable future part.

Most of these corruption/governance issues exist at the state and local govt level.

We need to fix our governance issues first, before we can dream of such audacious acts as genuinely boycotting Chinese products.

In general, instead of a negative oriented propaganda (like boycott Chinese goods), it is always better to have a positive oriented propaganda (like let's pool in and start a solar cell mfg plant in India, or an app better than TikTok etc)

[Sree]

It's true that it will be difficult to wean off from Chinese components and goods. Even a much bigger super power and scientific powerhouse like USA is not able to do so.
Having said that the only way Indian industry and companies can thrive is to have a govt policy of active support. Many of these so called Chinese super companies got lots of governmental support in China while they were starting to compete against the West.
And yes, as citizens we need to offer our help as to what is possible. If there are two competing products, I will surely go for the Indian company. And yes, Indian companies should rise above their tendency of quick profit by just putting their logo on Chinese products and selling it in India.

[Radiator]

Originally Posted by vharihar

We need to fix our governance issues first, before we can dream of such audacious acts as genuinely boycotting Chinese products.

In general, instead of a negative oriented propaganda (like boycott Chinese goods), it is always better to have a positive oriented propaganda (like let's pool in and start a solar cell mfg plant in India, or an app better than TikTok etc)

I completely agree with you. Boycotting one country's goods is not a feasible option to make up for our own country's failed governance.
The only thing stopping people from buying anything Chinese is a similarly Indian product...even if it's priced a little higher.

[poloman]

Not sure why people always link buy less Chinese campaign to mobile phones and other electronic goods. This will skew the argument.
Companies like Flipkart and Amazon are sourcing most of the items under their brand like Solimo from China and selling here. You can easily find an Indian substitute for the same. This is the business model for most businesses now. Just import from China, give an Indian sounding name and sell it in the market. Why should one buy a Chinese made bed sheet or chair or toy when thousands of Indian equivalents are available. Only to save few bucks, right. This is what we should be doing.

Originally Posted by AZT

This is very simplistic statement. WTO and UN legality aside, we will be the biggest losers here. As someone pointed out above, China counts for 15% of our exports, we count for only 3 to 4 % of Chinas.

C.

Nothing significant will happen. China will be the loser in long term. When Trump decided to impose tariffs on Chinese, same arguments were brought in.Like goods will become costlier. US economy will collapse etc. But China was brought to its knees. Then COVID happened.

Same thing here China has too much stake in Indian economy than vice versa. So Galvan is no coincidence after Go Local and efforts to woo companies fleeing China.

[vishnurp99]

Hi All,

I did some reading up on this topic as this thread gained momentum. This thread is divided into two sections. Part one has some facts which are pretty widely accepted based on the reading. The second is about what I think about the ideal response should be.

1. The Chinese government led by Xi is all-powerful in a way a democratic federal government with reasonably independent judiciary can never be.
2. In china, the industry and government separation is practically absent. For the purpose of optics, the chinese government has created publicly owned brand names like Alibaba so that investment comes in but the government actively favors these brand names like they would favor a state owned firm.
3. China doesn't believe in foreign IP. In case a firm wants access to chinese market, the firm has to transfer IP/technology to a local company with majority local ownershp. There is a practice where this IP will be shared with other local chinese companies and you will have a entire range of duplicates across a range of quality. All Chinese duplicates are not necessarily of poor quality. The originals, high quality duplicates, low quality duplicates are all apparently manufactured in the same factory.
4. China supports/protects their companies like no other government does. However that is to be expected since the owners have limited control on what they can do. The chinese system has to be commended since they realized the power of their market size fairly early.
5. China's double standards are evident in whichever domain they operate. They don't respect foreign IP. However since chinese companies have started innovation, IP courts and laws have started coming up in the last 5 years.
6. Chinese communist party's legitimacy is related to the economic growth of china. They have a huge population to feed.
7. Finally they despise the western democratic system as weak and corrupt. In the chinese world view, the chinese government, the companies and the military are all part of the same organ controlled by the chinese government. They feel the indian system is especially weak since the government and systems are very westernised without having the economic strength/innovative capability of the western nations.

Now how does India and it's citizenry respond to the China machine? Like some other folks have mentioned it's probably reasonable to avoid chinese brands when one has comparable Indian alternatives. Of course in case the price premium for the other brand is too much, then it may still make sense to go for the Chinese brand as long as the government doesn't do a blockade of chinese product. Frankly I don't think India can afford it.

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by GTO

I think it is very important to separate "business" from "politics". A Chinese mobile phone or car company doesn't have any say (or even interest) in the border dispute. Come on, guys! It's like proclaiming "I won't buy a Mercedes Benz because I hate Angela Merkel" and "Let's boycott Instagram because I hate the Republican Party in Washington".

Hi Rush, I came across an interesting thread on Twitter today on exactly this topic (the business side as opposed to the military angle). This thread was pointed out by a fellow BHPian. Please have a read.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...199726593.html

I am under no illusion that most Chinese businesses exploit rules (be it WTO, anti dumping, tax duties) to gain unfair advantages in bilateral trade. And almost all of the big boy conglomerates trace back ties to the CCP.

China bad hurr durr is an overly simplistic statement. I've got nothing against the country and her people. But the CCP has proven time and again that it will arm twist, poke and prod, test limits and finally impose itself on countries that appease or bend over. It's happening all over the world and we're bleeding territory for decades.

What we need is a cohesive policy shift. It won't happen overnight and certainly throwing Chinese TVs off balconies isn't the solution. But we've been taken advantage of far too many times now, and it's a fool who expects different results without changing anything.

[mvadg]

I am not surprised at such moves anymore. Yesterday, it was "Stand up to the national anthem to prove your patriotism", supported by no less than the Supreme Court! Then there was the requirement to say "Jai Hind". How about flag hoisting? The sheer hypocrisy of such demands appalls and sickens me.

And, to be frank, I'm not expecting anyone to start a movement to boycott Indian manufacturers or even advertisers who misrepresent their goods, or even outright swindle their customers. Case in point, the tobacco industry - how does this addictive drug producer manage to hoodwink all of us, all the time? There are many more issues I could point out that would make our lives far better if they were targeted by boycotts, but you get the drift.

I wish there was one more question in the poll:

If your child was highly likely to be seriously affected by the SARS-COV2 and the only vaccine / drug that was effective came from a Chinese manufacturer would you be willing to boycott it to serve the nation?

[poloman]

Originally Posted by mvadg

I am not surprised at such moves anymore. Yesterday, it was "Stand up to the national anthem to prove your patriotism", supported by no less than the Supreme Court! Then there was the requirement to say "Jai Hind". How about flag hoisting? The sheer hypocrisy of such demands appalls and sickens me.

And, to be frank, I'm not expecting anyone to start a movement to boycott Indian manufacturers or even advertisers who misrepresent their goods, or even outright swindle their customers. Case in point, the tobacco industry - how does this addictive drug producer manage to hoodwink all of us, all the time? There are many more issues I could point out that would make our lives far better if they were targeted by boycotts, but you get the drift.

I wish there was one more question in the poll:

If your child was highly likely to be seriously affected by the SARS-COV2 and the only vaccine / drug that was effective came from a Chinese manufacturer would you be willing to boycott it to serve the nation?

This is not a recent move. Swadeshi movement was started in 1905. So no need to see everything through political prism.
I think you are not reading the views on the thread, but just posting. Most of the opinion is focused on buying less Chinese goods not banning or boycotting them. Banning is not possible due to WTO and other international obligations.
So there are no two opinions on vaccine or anything life saving. You can selfishly choose what you want and what not since you are the buyer.

How about thinking also about the plight of a local ganesha maker who lost his livelihood due to import of cheapo ganeshas from China. You can find several stories like this. Weavers, toymakers, handicraftsmen, small electronic goods manufacturers.. The list is endless

[ShivrajG]

Somebody comes in your home, hurt your family members and leave. would you allow that ? I guess no.
I know its difficult to boycott every thing that is made in China due to their years of dominance in this market, however we can start trying to avoid wherever we can.

I have pledged that wouldn't buy a made in China product consciously and not support killing of our troops by the money going out of my hand.
I cant go and fight with our troops on the land but i can do my bit by not allowing my money to go into their pockets.

People who say I am just buying a product from their pvt company and not the govt so it wouldnt make a difference, i dont understand from where they studied economics.

China has always seen India as a potential rival and they will go to any extent to stop our progress.

[speedmiester]

Originally Posted by vharihar

Unfortunately thats easier said than done, sorry to burst your bubble . But as of today and the foreseeable future, even when you buy an electronics products that's made in India, be aware that it's got 90% of its components made in China, bcoz an overwhelming majority of those components are simply not made in India.

Agree, but it doesn't mean it can't be done. Most of the western powers are vary of china's plot of world dominance. Slowly but steadily things will change.
There is no point in giving up and saying this can't be done and not do our part.

I rather buy an Indian or other global brand with chinese components than a chinese brand itself.

Why are we so negative?

Forget electronics for a moment and consider that there are still a lot of products that have viable Indian alternatives, lets start with those.