[ishan12]

After going through some similar threads here, I see so many experts just don't seem to be pleased with any of the decisions by the current administration. I wonder if this is really a genuine disapproval of the decision by the government or is it just because their favorite political party is not in power making decisions.

Experts- We are not up there when it comes to manufacturing products domestically as efficiently as countries like China, Thailand etc. We have a huge bilateral trade deficit. We have too much red tape.

Government comes up with Make in India and recently Aatmanirbhar mission.

Experts - This is just a move to gain votes by invoking sense of fake Nationalism. We live in a globalized economy and such nationalistic sentiments are just for votes.

Experts - The Chinese came in to our territory and killed 20 of our troops the government should take some strict actions and not just keep silently watching the situation.

News comes in that also more then 40 Chinese troops were also killed and India has already started moving troops and artillery to Glavan Valley.

Experts - This is not that way, war is not a solution, we can not go to war with a country like China, it will have a huge impact on economy.

Government starts taking up commander level talks and also at diplomatic levels to de-escalate the situation and make the Chinese respect the status quo as before.

Experts - India has failed in their diplomacy, we must find ways and means of making the Dragon get on its knees.

Government started rejecting tenders from Chinese firms on Government contracts, also public due to sentiments started boycott Chinese products/ apps movement.

Experts - This is not the way to go ahead, we are a lot dependent on China. If a Chinese is a lowest bidder then who will bear the economic cost of allotting the tender to someone bidding higher. Boycott Chinese products is just some nationalistic jingoism by the people, this will not have any long term impact. The government need to think better and not try to invoke nationalistic sentiments for political gains.

Government banned 59 Chinese apps, most of which have major market share in India.

Experts - Banning apps and products from China is not a solution. It's just a way to please the crowd and for getting through the upcoming elections. Aggression and war are not a solution by any means. It has never solved anything. The only way to move forward is to make ourselves better and compete with China. We need to fix our governance issues first, before we can dream of such audacious acts as genuinely boycotting Chinese products.

Also, experts - We need some immediate actions. They come inside our territory, break all rules of engagement, kill our men in uniform and then put the blame of everything on us, and we reply by blocking some their apps. But mind you war is not a solution.

Government- But the apps are blocked primarily for data privacy issue, and not just in India but across the world, agencies have been warning against the Chinese phones and apps and given the current situation we can not risk data being shared with Chinese.

Experts - Yes, we are the same guys who cried data privacy issues on Aarogya setu app and didn't want our data to be shared with the government. But we are ok to share anything with the Chinese government. If you guys were really serious on data privacy, you should not have launched the Arogys setu app. Banning some 59 Chinese apps makes no difference.


I really wonder what is the ideal course of action as per the experts if there is any.

I also do not agree with all the decisions of the government and no one with a sane mind should. That is the beauty of democracy. But just being cynical and critical of everything that is happening around is also an indicator of not a healthy state of mind.

[digitalnirvana]

While we are on the topic, I would request people to uninstall all these apps as they read our clipboard data

It is far more than just Tik Tok or Chinese apps in case it isn't obvious.

https://www.techradar.com/news/its-n...clipboard-data

The full list of clipboard-scraping applications is as follows:

**News**
\- ABC News
\- Al Jazeera English
\- CBC News
\- CBS News
\- CNBC
\- Fox News
\- News Break
\- New York Times
\- NPR
\- ntv Nachricten
\- Reuters
\- Russia Today
\- Stern Nachrichten
\- The Economist
\- The Huffington Post
\- The Wall Street Journal
\- Vice News

**Games**
\- 8 Ball Pool
\- AMAZE!!!
\- Bejeweled
\- Block Puzzle
\- Classic Bejeweled
\- Classic Bejeweled HD
\- FlipTheGun
\- Fruit Ninja
\- Golfmasters
\- Letter Soup
\- Love Nikki
\- My Emma
\- Plants vs Zombies Heroes
\- Pooking - Billiards City
\- PUBG Mobile
\- Tomb of the Mask
\- Tomb of the Mask: Color
\- Total Party Killer
\- Watermarbling

**Social**
\- TikTok
\- ToTalk
\- Truecaller
\- Viber
\- Weibo
\- Zoosk

**Other**
\- 10% Happier: Meditation
\- 5-0 Radio Police Scanner
\- Accuweather
\- AliExpress Shopping App
\- Bed Bath & Beyond
\- Dazn
\- Hotels.com
\- Hotel Tonight
\- Overstock
\- Pigment - Adult Coloring Book to Color
\- Sky Ticket
\- The Weather Network

Source

[V.Narayan]

It is a integral part of our mentality to applaud if a Western nation does something and decry it if India does the same. If this ban had come from Germany or USA or Australia many of our members would have asked, "why can't wimpy India do the same". When we ban 59 Apps of a deceitful enemy nation these members respond -"what a stupid move, do you think China cares". For the member @Kosfactor who wrote " A bunch of Apps, Really" -- welcome to the world of market valuations. I really want to see Alibaba banned in India. Hit them where it hurts.

In my humble opinion it is a good first move. It has huge messaging value on its own but to be truly effective it needs follow up with other moves. But for starters it hits the Chinese Communist Party in a soft spot of Apps and Platforms where they wish for world domination but can't get there if India, Japan and USA stand in their way. We can't hit them in the supply chain of physical goods because of the intense co-dependence of global supply chains and because of various WTO norms we have signed up for. If we did that as some mis-guided customs units in ports have done we only chop our nose to spite our face.

For those readers who may not recall China has in the past consistently acted with deceit. In Feb'1979 Vajpayee, then Foreign Minister paid the first visit by the Indian Govt to China since 1962. During his visit, while he was in Bejing, they exploded an atomic bomb in the Gobi desert to send a message to us. Not sure if we allowed the message to affect us but it demonstrated their crass approach and lack of diplomatic subtleness. In 1988 when Rajiv Gandhi, then PM, paid the first visit to China by an Indian PM to snub us he was received at the airport by their number three and not by Deng Xiao Ping the real number 1, nor even by Chen Yun the General Secretary the real number 2 and on paper number 1!!! Still later in 2014 when Xi Ping paid a visit to Modi the Chinese took it upon themselves to rachet up border incursions and disputes just weeks prior to the visit up to the day he landed. Their long term goal of snubbing India is very clear. We should not fool ourselves. Their current round of mischief is a direct consequence of our building military oriented infrastructure at and near the borders and our increasing proximity to USA, Japan & Australia. I do not see it as a sign of strength but a sign of a nervous insecure bully.

We pursued over the last decade {under both regimes} a policy of using trade and investments to build the bridges with them and take a firm stand on incursions - 2013 and 2017. We had reason to believe that as we get bigger economically China will show sense of - "we disagree on the border but lets in the meantime build bridges on other parameters" Under Hu Jintao it did really seem we were inching ahead on that. Alas as they say in Hindi, "kutte ki poonch tedi hi rahti hai"{the tail of a dog cannot be straightened. The mistake the Govt made in the last two or three years is to assume that the magic of summits had at last brought a new era. It was not an unreasonable assumption. If hope the politicians and bureaucrats learn their lesson.

As for me, my family has got off these apps.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by digitalnirvana

What's nationalism or anti nationalism or a particular party got to do with this?

Sorry but kosfactor and padmrajravi what is it that you propose? That we redraw the maps to show the disputed territories as not in our claim? Sorry but this is ridiculous.

What our maps show are our government's interpretation of our sovereign territories (including ones that are under occupation by other states). We might not have the capability or will to enforce it for the last 70 odd years but that's another matter. Redrawing the maps themselves solves nothing!

I agree with you, redrawing maps alone wont help.

What I mentioned in my posts if elaborated would sound like this.

1. Any action that we take concerning international borders without consulting whom we share that border with - will have consequences. Most of our neighbors are China`s proxy.

2. Government should make diplomatic ties with like minded friends who are powerful enough to help us in putting pressure on China to back off. We cannot do it alone, even if its economic pressure.

3. Stop doing things for PR purpose, it makes us look weak outside the country all the while its clear that many of our industries are heavily depended on Chinese materials. Even for that statue of Patel , we needed China.

Now about redrawing borders -

Right now we are drawing this border at the expense of it being disputed territory.

What if we resolve this dispute and lose territory in the process or win some territory too? You win some , you lose some - would you still ask your kids to draw the same map?

See these things are not written on stones, it is therefore called a political map.

[Tucker48]

Originally Posted by sushantr5

TikTok has generated $456.7 million in revenue, of which $435 million was made from the App Store (iOS) while the remaining $21.4 million was generated from the Play Store. In terms of revenue, China was top-ranked at $331 million, or 72.3% of the total followed by the U.S. and Great Britain with revenue of $86.5 million and $9 million, respectively. India contributed $3.3 million in revenue.

If numbers are to be believed then action of banning is not even worth news piece.

Bytedance owns tiktok, and was going for IPO this year but due to obvious reasons it won't. Now tech companies get sky high valuations by looking at their future prospects. So, India does hold a major place in that. Remember Flipkart was valued at more than $20 billion when Walmart purchased the majority shares even though it never did make any profits. Banning hardware will have a negative impact on our economy but I don't see banning apps will adversely effect our country after all software is one thing India is definitely good at. Personally, I want a fair atmosphere for everyone but what shall one do when the opponent doesn't play fair.

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by sushantr5

TikTok has generated $456.7 million in revenue, of which $435 million was made from the App Store (iOS) while the remaining $21.4 million was generated from the Play Store. In terms of revenue, China was top-ranked at $331 million, or 72.3% of the total followed by the U.S. and Great Britain with revenue of $86.5 million and $9 million, respectively. India contributed $3.3 million in revenue.

If numbers are to be believed then action of banning is not even worth news piece.

Thats a very simplistic layman's analysis. There is something call growth and potential revenue. Mercedes came to in India in 1995 and sold a few cars yearly, do you really think they planned to stay India without any increase in sales? India is one of the biggest and fastest growing markets thats why you see foreign companies coming here.

As for the internet industry, funding and market cap is based a lot on the number of monthly active users and the potential to make money from them now or in the future.

WhatsApp was bought for $19 billion by Facebook in 2014. In 2013, the app lost $138 million and brought in $10.2 million in revenue. in 2014 they had 500 million users and now they have 2 billion, one of the main reasons Facebook bought it was to have access to a huge user base which it could earn money from in the future like they do now with Whatsapp for Business and Payments.

[Latheesh]

This anti-China is not totally working for me. I went shopping and found many items I liked but could not buy because all of them were made in China. Bought clothes online from a Japanese brand last week and found few of them are made in China (others are made in Vietnam and India). I use Redmi phone and cannot afford to throw it away!

Slowly and steadily we all should remove made in Corona items! I think online vendors should clearly mark country of origin in their listing. As an automobile forum we can start by discouraging people from buying Chinese cars like MG Hector.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by digitalnirvana

Sorry but kosfactor and padmrajravi what is it that you propose? That we redraw the maps to show the disputed territories as not in our claim? Sorry but this is ridiculous.

I don't propose anything. My comment was a rant about how I will never know what exactly happened in the border( In this instance or the numerous ones in the last 70 years) and the frustration about how I will have to find consolation in the fact that the government gave a strong reply to the intruders by banning the apps. It was not aimed at nationalism debate or a particular government. In my opinion, all the government till now failed in letting the people know of the real situation at the border and only tried to manage the perception. I consider this ban of apps also a perception management tactic.

[JithinR]

After voting for and supporting any boycott against Chinese products in our previous thread (where I had hoped for the Government to stand behind the people and support us in doing so) I can hardly go against or be displeased at this move.

Kudos to the Government for doing it. I might be an individual that more closely aligned to liberal ideals (and I definitely hate this Government for a lot of other things) but this I can fully support and stand behind.

Camscanner is the only relevant app that I have installed on my mobile. Thanks to our fellow members who have suggested alternatives to this. I have installed Microsoft Lens and plan to use that going forward.

As for whether this is a proportionate response or not, I sincerely hope that this is just the beginning. War is not something that I want either (certainly don't want our soldiers to make the ultimate sacrifice for anyone's political ambition) but I have the feeling that a large scale confrontation is not in China's best interest at this time either.

If we can hit them economically and that sends a message, I am all for it. Hopefully businesses in India step up too and do their part.

Read about how Prestige is planning to stop imports from China and shift them to Vietnam and Turkey (one is a communist one party state and the other has an increasingly autocratic President...shows that it's not an easy task). I hope other companies can emulate this to varying degrees.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/76668556.cms

[charanreddy]

Not just the mentioned APPs, I have deleted Ali Express also from my phone. A few members have sneered at We just blocked Apps ! Its needed to fight back in multiple ways and I believe this is the right course of action.

World politics is a queer domain and per my limited understanding, a lot of considerations go before any actions take place. Multiple unrelated events like US Presidential Elections in November with Joe Biden in the lead also play an Important role. Sometimes actions may start small like blocking Chinese Apps, Chinese investments etc. and escalate as needed. Also I feel the solutions at this stage are never black and white, but constantly changing and in different shades of Grey.

There is a school of thought, that takes the offensive from the Indian side. I.E. Fully commit to the Quad and take the U.S's side in the cold war against China. Actions could include publicly debunking One China Policy, Enhanced relations with Taiwan , Publicly criticizing China on the South China Sea escapades, Raking up the Hong Kong Issue as well as Tibet. All said and done this will inconvenience China, but not cause it any lasting damage. However if a more pliable Joe Biden gets elected to the White House then this course of action is on thin ground.

Being in a responsible position as the Indian Govt. Knee jerk reactions may not prove useful in the long run and could jeopardize Indian interests in the future. Accepting Chinese incursions is also not acceptable and a lesson needs to be taught. A self reliant India with modern military is the way forward and I believe our government is acting in a just manner with out knee jerk reactions, Modernizing our military and standing our ground, at the same time engaging diplomatically.

Ofcourse if the Chinese escalate this to a war, then we will be forced into it and per me the aggressor will be at a disadvantage.

Please note, the above are just my opinions and thoughts as an average Indian.

[hondafanboy]

This is a great move and much needed. I hope the government come out with the total list of contracts given to China and put 50% of those on complete hold to begin with and then cancel at the right time. Perfect time to set the border , policies and business with china in order.

[Tucker48]

I'm dejected and angry at the same time as when people of India endorse the view and maps which our rivals show. How does it feel for a person who is living near LAC or LOC and ready to give or take life to protect his land, his nation. By calling j&k as Indian administrated Kashmir and saying it is disputed(along with AP) and political parties forced their views on boundaries to common people is tell tale signs of not a liberal but an anti national. Time to separate antis from liberals and show them the mirror. There is a line which needs not to be crossed. For all my love for a democracy, this is why democracy sucks. Freedom of speech doesn't mean that you can offend others. There is a line and if you don't know the line then keep the mouth shut!

[Slick]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

.... I really want to see Alibaba banned in India. Hit them where it hurts....

In my humble opinion it is a good first move....

For those readers who may not recall ....

Well said Sir, Though banning of apps can be taken more as a first token action, it should act as a beginning of something enduring.

Real patriotism should not reflect in jingoistic News anchors demeaning other countries but should stem from Government & Public will to work against China - Commercially,Diplomatically or Defense wise.


One can possibly only let go of only 5% today but the desire should be to keep on increasing that number over time, even though it is inconvenient. Quietly, one sector at a time.

All this without being Jingoistic about it, without being loud on social media, because then it becomes more like a show.


PS - I don't think anyone doubts the army's sacrifice or capabilities, it's what the media makes of such situations for political gains of their masters that make people challenge things like the number of casualties in China.

A lot of times when the Government is questioned, people take it as a question to the Army's valour. It is generally not the case, in my experience.

The current state of media needs to change for the good of this country.

- Slick

[AMG Power]

As a wag mentioned, with all this boycotting going on, once China develops a vaccine, they will boycott us.

[Hayek]

Fortunately for me, I have always been suspicious of Chinese apps, and hence had never downloaded a single one. My brother (who now lives in SG) uses a One Plus phone - and my in laws (who live with us) had MI phones. We just replaced my In-laws phones with iPhones. Yes, they are probably Made in China - but Made in China contributes much less to their economy than Made by China. And my brother will have to make do without Wifi unless he changes his phone before his next trip.

Of course, we are not a material market for China. Hence the imperative to follow sensible policies which will lead to faster growth instead of using the Chinese threat to retreat into autarky - which will imply that 10 years from now, our economy is even smaller vs that of China than it is today.