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Old 11th September 2020, 13:44   #46
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Default Re: Almost got fined for not wearing a mask

It's good that now authorities understand that single driver can be allowed to drive without mask but still out of habit, I make sure to keep the mask on for my own safety whenever I am outside home, driving or on foot. It does make sense to keep wearing the mask as you cannot be sure for how long virus can stay in air suspended.

On a different note, regarding authorities taking pictures before issuing challan my advice to people is at least put a smile on your face, or a good pose.
This will ensure that your smiling/happy face picture will not be used by the authorities in local newspapers informing your neighbors that a such a challan drive took place yesterday and you were their POSTER BOY

Got this tip from a friend of mine.
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Old 11th September 2020, 14:23   #47
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Default Re: Almost got fined for not wearing a mask

My friend got fined for not wearing a mask inside his car, which was closed as he had turned on AC. We had a similar debate on Whatsapp. We concluded that the best thing to do is keep wearing a mask wherever one is, just to avoid such things and further debate. Not all people are reasonable or understanding, its difficult to guess their intention as well.

Good thing about wearing one is I havent shaved for the last two months as I dont care how my beard grows behind it :P
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Old 11th September 2020, 14:32   #48
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Default Re: Almost got fined for not wearing a mask

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
One missed word (in the part in bold above) makes a well-written post nonsensical. One SARS-CoV-2 emitter, even if asymptomatic, suddenly coming close to us, can mess up our complacence about not being at risk for being Covid-19 infected. !
Transmission is directly proportional to viral load x duration of exposure. Asymptomatic individuals have lower viral loads. Asymptomatic also implies no coughing/sneezing - hence no aerosol generation.

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Since there is not enough clarity in published medical literature about how easily this virus is transmitted, how virulent it is, or who are the most susceptible people, it would be eminently justified to err on the side of caution and keep a good mask on, make sure it seals properly against one's face, and stop arguing about the fallacy of wearing masks on threads like these. The policeman who confronted the OP could himself be a virus emitter, though asymptomatic (I would bet he was not using an N95 mask, or even wearing a mask properly).
There is enough clarity on each of the issues you have expressed in your opening line, including even the documentation of the new D614G mutation which makes the virus more infective (but most probably less severe) than the first strains isolated. If someone wants to err on the side of caution, perhaps not leaving the house at all would be the best precaution, masks/no masks notwithstanding. I don't have to mention - the way people use masks anyway is a big joke - forget even trying to get a seal. By the way, the policeman who was out on duty on a public road should be wearing a mask (by his own interpretation of the law) rather than someone who is sitting alone in his own car.


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So now we have enforcement of mask-wearing considered to be "illogical"!?
Nope. The WAY in which it is enforced is illogical. I think everybody gets that.

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Considering that I spend extended hours wearing a non-valved N95 FFP2 mask, protected by a surgical mask over it, with a face shield and eyewear to top it off (all for professional reasons), I find the comment "...it (sic) very hard to wear an N95 properly for more than a few minutes" to be false and misleading.
Of course it's logical to wear adequate PPE while working in a hospital - no one's arguing against that. However, forget N95, common people who are otherwise unaccustomed to wearing masks (as compared to surgeons), will feel uncomfortable even with a cloth mask. Yes, eventually they'll get used to it, but that depends on the individual. In that process, they stand the risk of inadvertently infecting themselves by touching their faces after touching an exposed surface. Hence hand hygiene is so much more important. No mask can protect you forever if your hands are infected.


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If any of the readers here has access to good (not fake) N95 masks, and knows how to wear them properly with a full seal around the chin, mouth and nose, please wear them at any time that you are out of your own home, in any place where you might perchance come face-to-face with a stranger (or even a policeman), or even to simply comply with prevailing laws and rules.
For that matter, any mask written properly would do. And that's what we're doing - complying with the laws and rules. The results are showing.


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And yes - an N95 FFP1mask will filter out 80% of particles of 0.3 micrometers diameter, an N95 FFP2 mask will filter out 95% of particles of 0.3 micrometers dia., and an N99 mask will filter out 99% of particles of 0.3 micrometers dia. I would happily wear N99s for a few hours daily rather than my N95 FFP2s, and I would still not have any breathing issues!
You might have seen those ridiculous gas mask like contraptions (with "virus filtering cartridges") that are being sold by just milking this paranoia. All you need is to filter out droplets rather than individual viruses (which I'm sure one day somebody will surely lay a claim on )
It's a "make hay while the sun shines" situation.

Last edited by Aditya : 14th September 2020 at 14:43. Reason: Personal remarks removed
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Old 11th September 2020, 14:36   #49
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Default Re: Almost got fined for not wearing a mask

Gentlemen,the law states that masks have to be worn in a public place, which is any place outside your own house.
To argue against the logic of not wearing one when driving alone ,with a cop,who may himself be a carrier or can cause you misery for innumerable reasons,is not worth it.The law can be challenged.
Anyway,the rule of wearing a mask while driving alone or riding a bike without a pillion rider has been changed,now no fines can be issued by the police.
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Old 11th September 2020, 14:46   #50
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Default Re: Almost got fined for not wearing a mask

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Hello folks,

The law says if one person is the car he can not wear the mask.
I did not quite understand what you mean. Mask is compulsory.
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Old 11th September 2020, 14:56   #51
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Frankly, I think the reason that Covid had spread like wildfire in India despite having imposed the most draconian lockdown in the world at a huge economic cost (at least in the short term) ..................



. And until that happens, the outcome during events which need collective action will be just what we have seen - an unmitigated disaster.
I completely agree with everything that you've said. When the govt has completely lost the plot, but it's still in denial mode (have they even acknowledged community transmission yet?), these are the side tricks that they resort to. Politicians are no fools that they do not know the flawed logic in their own framed laws - in fact that's what makes them so cunning. It's us, the fools, who gave them this power.
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Old 11th September 2020, 15:04   #52
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Default Re: Almost got fined for not wearing a mask

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You might have seen those ridiculous gas mask like contraptions (with "virus filtering cartridges") that are being sold by just milking this paranoia. All you need is to filter out droplets rather than individual viruses (which I'm sure one day somebody will surely lay a claim on )
It's a "make hay while the sun shines" situation.
I guess in this case there should've been a warning given to you as you had the mask in your hand. Those cops must have been on their quota run.
I wear glasses and whichever mask I wear gets the glasses foggy (I am not aware if there are any anti fogging masks available) so while driving I slide the mask down towards the mouth.

Few days back I was driving near Bhumkar Chowk with my mask hanging near my chin area, there was a senior cop who gestured towards me to wear it properly and gave thumbs up as soon as I adjusted it.

If somebody is travelling in a car or on anyhow using the road they should wear a mask without enforcement as this is a civic duty now.
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Old 11th September 2020, 17:24   #53
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Default Re: Almost got fined for not wearing a mask

I'm sorry, but the law is that you have to wear a mask if you step out into public area. While I understand from what you said that you are generally more than safety cautious, that is unfortunately not relevant.

India is surging ahead in covid cases, and kindly DO correct me if I'm wrong, but this virus can live atleast 48 hours on surfaces, so any surface you come into contact with outside, is also a potential threat. And I'm not even sure how long they can remain suspended in air, even WHO made mistakes on their guidelines regarding this, so I would anyday be on the borderline OCD level safe, than not.

Last edited by SaiSW : 11th September 2020 at 17:26.
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Old 11th September 2020, 18:21   #54
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Default Re: Almost got fined for not wearing a mask

I don't wear a mask while I'm alone or with my family in my car (we all do carry masks and wear it before we exit the car). Gone past through a few check posts and got only stopped one time where the policeman came to my window and I showed him my phone number written on a A4 size paper signalling him to call me but didn't roll down the window. His next gesture asked me to move on.
If the laws were so simple then there's no point of appointing judges.
More importantly, aren't we aware about drawbacks of wearing masks for a long time or we are just ignoring them? Why we are not talking about it? (Not TeamBHP but society as a whole)
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Old 11th September 2020, 20:43   #55
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Default Re: Almost got fined for not wearing a mask

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Originally Posted by Zen2001 View Post
Asymptomatic also implies no coughing/sneezing - hence no aerosol generation.
To quote very recent published literature:
Quote:
...higher detection of SARS-CoV-2 RNA in oral and nasal swabs might not be a direct reflection of transmission potential. In addition, much transmission likely happens in the presymptomatic stage, and we don’t know how these differences during the symptomatic phase compare.
I would happily welcome an off-forum discussion with you regarding the merits/demerits of current publications on SARS-CoV-2, which are generally not peer reviewed. Would not want to bore all the other readers of this thread, would we?
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...the way people use masks anyway is a big joke - forget even trying to get a seal. By the way, the policeman who was out on duty on a public road should be wearing a mask (by his own interpretation of the law) rather than someone who is sitting alone in his own car.
That is certainly a problem that I wholeheartedly agree with you about. Except that the OP was not sitting alone in his own car at the time he was approached by the policemen.
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...common people who are otherwise unaccustomed to wearing masks (as compared to surgeons), will feel uncomfortable even with a cloth mask. Yes, eventually they'll get used to it, but that depends on the individual.
We were uncomfortable with those damned seat belts (some still are), and many in this country hate the burden of a helmet on their heads. Eventually they'll get used to it. Why not try to get used to the mask!?
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Hence hand hygiene is so much more important.
I keep ranting, but forget that hand sanitiser, except in an emergency. Soap and water are the best sanitiser, followed by a clean towel or disposable tissues.
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Originally Posted by Zen2001 View Post
For that matter, any mask written properly would do. And that's what we're doing - complying with the laws and rules. The results are showing.
Not complying with simple rules, followed by getting caught by cops, leads to threads like these!
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Originally Posted by Zen2001 View Post
You might have seen those ridiculous gas mask like contraptions (with "virus filtering cartridges") that are being sold by just milking this paranoia.
It's a "make hay while the sun shines" situation.
Well, latex / nitrile gloves are 4x more expensive these days, surgical masks are 5x to 6x the usual price, but genuine N95s used to be 5x the price but have come down lately, probably due to competition from fake N95 makers. Some of the good brands, like 3M, Honeywell and Siti-Shield, have almost disappeared from the markets.

Despite the high price, let's keep using good masks to protect ourselves (the number of people reading this is miniscule compared to the country's population, so we as healthcare professionals will not run into shortages) and let's avoid those "illogical" policemen as much as the virus.

Last edited by Aditya : 14th September 2020 at 14:45. Reason: Quoted text deleted
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Old 11th September 2020, 22:21   #56
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Default Re: Almost got fined for not wearing a mask

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After around 20 mins, I think he gave up and just left without saying much and not giving me a fine.
Will you like to interact with a complete stranger not wearing a mask even for 5 mins?
Those policemen are doing it everyday ,risking their lives; why?
The mandatory wearing of mask rule is for our own benefit. I seen nothing wrong in what the policemen did. They are doing their job. The policemen, healthcare workers, safaiwalas are working tirelessly in these pandemic times, without any leaves, away from their families for months now. Many of them are on the verge of burnout out. Many have died because of the virus, with no recognition and zero compensation from the government. Instead of respecting and saluting them we are arguing with them. Its actually very demoralizing. Sorry to say this dear but I think what you did is completely wrong.

For the logic part, please understand that the law enforcement agencies don't work by logic, they work by the rules. The only place to put across your point logically is the court.
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Old 12th September 2020, 00:08   #57
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Default Re: Almost got fined for not wearing a mask

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To quote very recent published literature:

Quote:
...higher detection of SARS-CoV-2 RNA in oral and nasal swabs might not be a direct reflection of transmission potential. In addition, much transmission likely happens in the presymptomatic stage, and we donít know how these differences during the symptomatic phase compare.
I would
Thanks for sharing this. The most important point that most people are finding hard to grasp, is this. You transmit it even without you knowing it.

The government can only do so much. Yes there are many things where there is scope to improve(don't want to start another debate) but as a citizen it is our responsibility too to limit this pandemic. Every other successful country has proved it that social distancing is the only way right now to control this. But wherever that is not possible, it is upto our careful habits of wearing a mask, avoiding contact and frequent sanitization which control the spread.
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Old 12th September 2020, 00:53   #58
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Default Re: Almost got fined for not wearing a mask

Isn't part of the reason to wear a mask in public to not contaminate the surroundings?

Even if nobody is around, you can sneeze and contaminate the surroundings with which others might later interact, right?
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Old 12th September 2020, 10:35   #59
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More importantly, aren't we aware about drawbacks of wearing masks for a long time or we are just ignoring them? Why we are not talking about it? (Not TeamBHP but society as a whole)
That's another whole new can of worms. Forget a long time, there are risks (of inadvertently infecting yourself) if the wearing AND PROPER REMOVAL of simple masks is not followed correctly to the T, regardless of the duration of it being worn. Another scare for another day, eh?
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Old 12th September 2020, 11:13   #60
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To quote very recent published literature: .
Here's the original one from research in Scripps purely on the D614G mutation (& not the G614) that confers higher infectivity but not necessarily higher severity. That's what we are seeing in India, I think.
https://www.scripps.edu/news-and-eve...e-protein.html

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We were uncomfortable with those damned seat belts (some still are), and many in this country hate the burden of a helmet on their heads. Eventually they'll get used to it. Why not try to get used to the mask!?.
Comparing apples to oranges?

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Not complying with simple rules, followed by getting caught by cops, leads to threads like these!.
Logical thinking is what seperates humans from circus trained animals, who follow rules based on Pavlov's conditioning.

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let's avoid those "illogical" policemen as much as the virus.
Nuff said!

Last edited by Aditya : 14th September 2020 at 14:46. Reason: Non-forum smileys deleted
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