[stanjohn123]

Originally Posted by superbad

No one's stopping the kids in the family from going to a government school with zero fees, mid day meal scheme & free books. Nor anyone's stopping them from getting healthcare at a government hospital. But the motivation & will to do so has to come from the family, not the government.
Anyway, I think that's off topic. Point I'm trying to make is no government in the world has had a perfect response to Covid, in fact among the worst affected countries are the European elites & USA, the most developed countries in the world, with a fraction of our population & multiples of our per capita income.

Easy for us to say , but who will spend for grocery , travelling expenses, buying cloths , EB bills, medicines which you don't get in govt hospitals. Fact is , there are poor people still suffering for different reasons and the cost of living in India is not exactly cheap.

If you elect Orators and Entertainers , this is the performance you can expect during a disaster, it doesn't matter if it is a developed or developing country.

[Turbohead]

Originally Posted by su1978

Secondly, coming to the working class, i would again say that not everything is so bad as is being portrayed by most of the members on the forum. As an active jobseeker, i am seeing many vacancies from good companies like reliance/canon/panasonic/suzuki/maruti to name a few, being posted on websites like naukri.com. The portal is very active in hiding these job openings and charging the candidates and then sending them these masked vacancies. The modus operandi is very simple. Companies post some vacancy. There is a backend team which is sitting in the office of naukri.com and they keep on screening each and every section. The moment they see a vacancy from some good company or a vacancy of some prestigious company, the backend team immediately masks them. The reason i am so sure is the fact that once you call naukri.com for their paid service, the sales guy will blabber everything and you could record the statement.

May I know how many jobs did you see vacant in your paid account? Approximate numbers?

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by superbad

No one's stopping the kids in the family from going to a government school with zero fees, mid day meal scheme & free books. Nor anyone's stopping them from getting healthcare at a government hospital.

Actually poverty and access (or the lack of) stops them. And who is responsible for removing poverty and facilitating the access? The Government.

Just out of curiosity, what's stopping TBHPians from,
1. sending their kids to these free government schools?
2. getting healthcare at a government hospital?

Aren't the schools and hospitals good enough for us but good enough for them?

P.S: I don't live in India and I access government schools and hospitals.

[manjubp]

Originally Posted by COMMUTER

The Goverment must reduce the insane taxation in fuels to goad growth in manufacturing and exports for us to stop championing the unemployment record, instead of trying to 'develop' by grabbing more money from the honest taxpayers(salaried middle-class).

Me and my family are middle class salaried people with no other income, bare minimum social security and we used to pay taxes happily until now. This is because I know that some of my tax pays merit scholarships of some deserving students - I was one of the needy beneficiaries 3 decades back. While at personal level, I like your suggestion so that I can buy new car rather than pre-owned one , it is not as important as scholarships are to a needy one.

As an engineer, I am not sure how this works. Within this forum, with the esteemed members mostly very rational, I have seen in last one week in various threads on similar topics, the following suggestions:

1. Reduce Income Tax-personal
2. Reduce Tax on Corporate
3. Reduce Tax on Automobile
4. Reduce Tax on Petrol/Diesel (remember that while price of crude price has reduced along with volume of sales, the operating fixed cost has not reduced )

On the other hand, to boost employment, we have seen suggestions too:
1. Increase spending on infrastructure
2. Increase spending on healthcare
3. There is need to spend on defence
4. Increase social security

On the government side - some of my classmates are a part of the government at high positions. They mention its priorities:
1. Need to ensure no one is hunger and needs to continue Anna-Bhagya
2. Need to ensure Free education for needy children
3. Need to ensure flood relief (to whatever extent possible)
4. Need to pay back loans, to avoid default
5. Need to ensure government hospitals are run
6. Need to ensure Government employees get salary, else system will collapse

Running the government needs money. They need to invest in the future.

How can all these conditions be met without hurting someone or printing money and adding to inflation?

[ashish.uno]

Originally Posted by Cessna182

A humble and sincere request- please stop sharing selective news to suit a narrative. An article in The Hindu, which is a newspaper that even people preparing for government jobs vouch for, clearly states "The PMNRF was originally managed by a committee which included the Prime Minister and his deputy, the Finance Minister, the Congress President, a representative of the Tata Trustees and an industry representative. However, in 1985, the committee entrusted the entire management of the fund to the Prime Minister, who currently has sole discretion for fund disbursal. A joint secretary in the PMO administers the fund on an honorary basis."
https://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...le31546287.ece

Is Business standard not good enough a source?
I quote something thats selective to suit a narrative, you quote Hindu and its kosher! Okay.

I know Hindu is a mandatory reading for folks preparing for UPSC, else how come you can hope to get selected if you have a divergent view. Hindu is also vehemently anti Modi and goes to great lengths to discredit the present dispensation. Anyway we are digressing from topic.

By the way i also said the same thing that you quoted. The PM is the sole person responsible for managing the fund. He merely appointed a secretary of the fund, who has the sole authority to operate the fund on behalf of PM.

The PMNRF is far less transparent than the PM CARES since after PMNRF was deemed a trust, it has functioned without a trust deed. Essentially, giving unbridled power to the Prime Minister with zero accountability. Till date, nobody knows what the guidelines that govern the PMNRF are.

I invite you to debunk the above. Dont quote selectively from Hindu to further your narrative though. Back your claims with hard facts, i will gladly accept my mistake and learn from this discussion.

In any case, I repeat that government employees were asked to donate their day's salary and many donated a month's salary. If you take money from PSUs and govt. employees, you don't think you're worthy enough to be scrutinized by govt. auditors like the CAG?

I won't make any more off topic posts, and please delete if this is inappropriate. My sole intention was to counter the wrong fact stated. Thanks.

Have i said anywhere, that it should NOT be audited. It has to be audited, its a trust afterall. It will be audited. My only contention is why cast aspersions so early?

By the way do you know that PMNRF has also not been audited by CAG till date. Im certain there is some legal angle to it, of which i am not aware. Perhaps you might throw some light.

Lastly here are some images to further establish the infallibility of Hindu.

[superbad]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

Fact is , there are poor people still suffering for different reasons and the cost of living in India is not exactly cheap.

If you elect Orators and Entertainers , this is the performance you can expect during a disaster, it doesn't matter if it is a developed or developing country.

Beg hard to differ, India's one of the few countries where you can have a roof over your head for free & get kilograms of rations for a few rupees. How do you think millions of people bpl are surviving?

Originally Posted by manjubp

Within this forum with esteemed members mostly very rational, I have seen in last one week in various threads on similar topic the following suggestions.

1. Reduce Income Tax-personal
2. Reduce Tax on Corporate
3. Reduce Tax on Automobile
4. Reduce Tax on Petrol/Diesel (remember while crude price has reduced along with volume of sales, the operating fixed cost is not reduced )

On the other hand, to boost employment we have seen suggestions to
1. Increase spending on infrastructure
2. Increase spending on healthcare
3. There is need to spend on defence
4. Increase social security

On the government side, some of my classmates are part of government in high position, mentions priority
1. Needs to ensure no one is hunger and needs to continue Anna-Bhagya
2. Needs to ensure Free education to the need children
3. Needs to ensure flood relief (to whatever extent possible)
4. Needs to pay back loans, to avoid default
5. Needs to ensure government hospitals are run
6. Needs to ensure Government employees get salary, else system will collapse

Running Government needs money, they need to invest on future.

How does all these can be meet without hurting someone or printing money and adding to inflation.

Excellent point, well put. People want the government to lift hundreds of millions out of poverty, spend billions on infrastructure & reduce taxes at the same time. Where does the money come from?

Moral of the story is, there was/is no "perfect" way of handling the current crisis, be it any government or any country. If there is, I request the esteemed members of this forum to give some points as to how our country could've better tackled the current crisis. Some nuggets from my sides :-
1) Made wearing of masks compulsory, otherwise punishable by law, since the beginning of March.
2) Halted all international flights into India since the beginning of February.
3) Gave a two week notice for lockdown, then implemented a complete lockdown for two months straightaway. Thus any infection due to mass movement during the notice period would've been contained in the subsequent lockdown.
4) Halt any unnecessary government expenditure during the current time, for eg construction of the new parliament building.

[ashish.uno]

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

Sir, please check from authentic sources about the PMNRF instead of using dubious sources. I humbly request you to please read up before coming up with incorrect informations on this esteemed forum.

This is indeed an esteemed forum, that is why i would request you to not broadly dismiss the views of a fellow forumer and surgically debunk the misinformation in a less than condescending manner.

You may also consider classifying which sources are credible and which are not, since we all are quoting from print media.

Here is the notification from then PM. Pray do tell, which exact part was misinformation. Please note the second point.




Thanks.

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Right, that explains it.

Thanks!

Its intersting that you quoted a single line from the entire post to make your point (?). Which was what exactly?

Anyway please allow me to correct it. The current PM will probably last for 7-10 years and the present dispensation might last for 10-15 years.
Hope that helps.


EDIT:

Originally Posted by Cessna182

As for your name-calling, as I said earlier it won't help

I dont remember calling anybody names here. Care to point it out. I would like to apologize right away.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by superbad

Beg hard to differ, India's one of the few countries where you can have a roof over your head for free & get kilograms of rations for a few rupees. How do you think millions of people bpl are surviving?

You need to travel more, my friend.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by ashish.uno

Here is the notification from then PM.
[

Notification from 1948.

Is it valid, applicable and in-force today, in 2020?

[am1m]

Originally Posted by ashish.uno

For example, you may look at this report in Economic times detailing how Rs. 2000 crores from PMCares have been allotted for procurement of 50,000 ventilators. The supply for which, I believe, is ongoing.
Link

You may also look at this report in TOI from August 2020 which mentions plans of financing 2 500 beds Covid hospitals in Bihar exlcusively funded from PMCares Fund trust.
Link

Thank you for taking the time to reply and for providing sources. Appreciate the way you are responding to queries. I am on the other side of this argument from you- personally, I would like some more details about this fund, but I am happy we can engage in a good dialog. You made great points about the other similar national fund and it's management, and I can learn from your posts.

(This is far more constructive than the bleeding heart, etc. type of name calling that some others seem to think constitutes debate.)

[avishar]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Notification from 1948.

Is it valid, applicable and in-force today, in 2020?

No. The composition changed in 1985, and the Tata Trustees were off the board.

Interestingly enough in 2018 itself courts were asked if PMNRF comes the ambit of RTI.

https://indiankanoon.org/doc/6648261...s1iN4d9x8GnqoC

Prime Ministers National Relief ... vs Aseem Takyar on 23 May, 2018

The question for consideration in this appeal is whether Prime Minister‟s National Relief Fund ("the Fund/Appellant") is a „public authority‟ within the ambit of Section 2(h) of the Right to Information Act, 2005 ("RTI Act"). The learned single judge held that it was, upholding the decision of the authorities under the Act.

12. The PMNRF was established pursuant to an appeal made by way of a press note dated 24/01/1948 by the then Prime Minister Jawahar Lal Nehru. He felt the need to have such a fund to make ends meet in the hard times owing to rioting and exodus from Pakistan on occasion of partition of India. In 1973, an application was filed before the Income Tax authority under Section 12A of the Income Tax Act, 1961 to register the fund as a "Trust" for the purposes of Income Tax exemption. The said application of the Fund was allowed by the Commissioner of Income Tax on 18.09.1973 and the fund was registered as a "Trust" bearing No. DLI(C)(T-25)/73-74. Subsequently, the fund was also allocated a separate Permanent Account Number (PAN). Though, no specific Trust Deed was executed for the said purpose, the fund was, however, deemed to be a "Trust".

Finally, in 1985, the Managing Committee of PMNRF entrusted the entire management of the said fund to the Prime Minister who was given the discretion to appoint a secretary of the fund to manage it. Since its inception, the PMNRF has been receiving voluntary donations from individuals and institutions. The funds so received by it are disbursed to provide immediate relief from natural calamities, major accidents, serious ailments, riot, etc. as per discretion and under directions of the Prime Minister.





It has been the same ever since.


Who heads the Prime Ministers National Relief Fund?

The Prime Minister heads the Prime Minister's National Relief Fund.

How is the Prime Minister's National Relief Fund (PMNRF) administered?

The fund is administered on an Honorary basis by Joint Secretary to the Prime Minister as Secretary of the fund. He is assisted on Honorary basis by an Officer of the rank of Director.

What criterions have been fixed for disbursal of funds held under PMNRF?

The disbursement out of the fund is made at the discretion of the Prime Minister, and in accordance with the Prime Minister's directions.



What is even more interesting is that both PMCARES and PMNRF are audited by the same private audit company "Sarc & Associates".




IMO PMCARES should also be under RTI if PMNRF is.

[ashish.uno]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Notification from 1948.

Is it valid, applicable and in-force today, in 2020?

Yes.
Link

The last amendment was in 1985 by then prime minister Rajiv Gandhi. In fact, it was only sometime in the year 1985, the then Managing Committee of the Fund entrusted the entire management of the said fund to the Prime Minister. The PM was conferred with sole discretion to appoint a “Secretary of the fund” on his behalf, upon whom amongst other things, the authority to operate the bank accounts of the fund was also delegated. This decision was taken when Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi was in-charge of the fund.
Which means in effect, there is only one individual who is responsible for the dispersion of money.
Not a good practice if you ask me.


And as per my information nothing has changed. However if you have informaiton to the contrary, i will happily acknowledge.

Originally Posted by am1m

Thank you for taking the time to reply and for providing sources. Appreciate the way you are responding to queries. I am on the other side of this argument from you- personally, I would like some more details about this fund, but I am happy we can engage in a good dialog. You made great points about the other similar national fund and it's management, and I can learn from your posts.

(This is far more constructive than the bleeding heart, etc. type of name calling that some others seem to think constitutes debate.)

Thank you!

The govt is answerable to us and it must answer. Everything will come to light sooner than later. The fund will be annually audited and we can atleast wait till then before casting serious aspersions.

Infact if you were to dig a little deeper into the other fund, you will be surprised, and not in a good way, at its usage of the funds. But thats a topic for another day.

[Samurai]

Hello, the discussion getting overly political. Please stop posting anything about political figures, of any colour. - Support Team

Political posts will be deleted.

[fordday]

Originally Posted by superbad

Beg hard to differ, India's one of the few countries where you can have a roof over your head for free & get kilograms of rations for a few rupees. How do you think millions of people bpl are surviving?

Really!! Then why do you think these people migrate in hordes to cities for bare minimum existence? The reality is very little reaches the aam aadmi. Again among the intended population, very few of them actually receive it. So very few receive very little out of all the promises.

Please don't tell me the names of this and that 'yojanas'. These are all money making machines for the coterie.

[Cessna182]

Originally Posted by ashish.uno

Is Business standard not good enough a source?
I quote something thats selective to suit a narrative, you quote Hindu and its kosher! Okay.

Thus is getting OT hence please delete if inappropriate.
I am not sure if you read the highlighted texts. You said that the PMNRF has the opposition party president. That was misinformation, and if you want to ignore that, go ahead
Did any govt. company or employee get forced to sign into the PMNRF? Almost all PSUs submitted their entire CSR budget to PM cares and yet you say a govt. auditor is not needed.
Also, please visit the PMNRF website and see the record of accounts for all years. Could you show a similar thing for PM cares?